|
Post by rick3 on Mar 9, 2010 3:33:34 GMT -5
"rotten fisch drug accrossed the clever FOX's path to confuse the hounds and sheep" - the lone kidnapper parked on Featherbed Lane...carried the ladder 1/2 mile over rocky terrainin the dark...climbed in window, grabbed CJr and climbed down ladder again without leaving a trace? [except the note on the windowledge?]
- CJr died...from a fractured skull...when the ladder broke?
- CAL missed the NYU diiner due to a mistaken date error?[but Breckenridge went]
- Anne was throwing pepples at CJrs window and accidentally stepped into the garden mud under the ladder? [the woman's footprint?]
- Betty Gow sewed CJr a niteshirt w/ bright blue thread?
- Ollie Whateley was headed into ? towne for a flashlite @10pm? [Wall-Mart? 24/7]
- Anne and Ollies wife Elsie found CJrs thumbguard in the driveways on April Fools Day?
- "the mony is redy"/"the mony is redy"/"the mony is redy" [18Xs]
- CJ demanded the mony be delivered in a fancy mahogeny-teak wooden ransom box made by Abe Samuelsohn? [was CJ a collector? of Ralph Hacker designs]
- Jafsie shrewdly negotiated a $20,000 discount from CJ on the basis of Lindbergh/Morrow poverty? [fire sale?CJr]
- CJr was dumped out on Mt. Rose Hill on March 1st and lie there undetected and frozen for 72 days? [uber-decomposition]
- Inspector Walsh poked a perfectly round hole in CJrs skull w/ a stick? [the big hole or little hole?]
web.archive.org/web/20010803012225/www.lindberghkidnappinghoax.com/body.html
- CAL identified CJr by counting his teeth and toes? [8 + 5}
- Betty identified CJr by the blue threaded t-shirt? (see above)
- Doc VanIngen said "for ten million bucks, I could not ID this baby"? [the skeleton was blackened]
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 9, 2010 9:00:01 GMT -5
+ Elizabeth Morrow didn't show up at Anne's until 11:00 AM the next day? Oh, Charlie was kidnapped? OK honey I'll be right over after I check on the laundry whites and make sure Sep isn't bombed and see that somebody made Charles' bed from last night. + Cal had complete control over everyone involved except Elmer Irey? + The Purple Gang was disbanded and those still alive not even from Detroit anymore by 1930, yet CAL, Capone, Rosner et al still believed they were banded enough to pull off da big one? + State of NJ allowed cremation of a crime scene body? + BRH was at the movies alone on his birthday while Anna sang (played the tuba?) and drank beer with Richards pals? + Jafsie & bodyguard buddy(s) gave Perrone the third degree but barely noticed a second cab driver who happened to be on foot (cabbie arrived unseen by many observers - traveling by sewer?) ? + What happened to Ralph's plans for the box - unimportant to investigators? - are they in the Bronx Condon Memorial Library? Condon, as CAL, also untouchable by police? + CAL listening to Rosner using a private phone line from CAL's house, when every half hour or so Rosner calls someone and says, "have you heard from X?" + Thayer, when his job is done with LKC and he's through hanging around illegal bars with (Donovan? and) known felons, going to work for U.S. Intelligence? + The BI watch on Condon's house began just minutes AFTER CAL & JFC go off to pay the cash?
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 9, 2010 18:12:43 GMT -5
I believe Walsh. Having said that, should his skull have been so easily pierced?
Should NEVER have allowed it. However, CAL was running the show. If he told them to stand on their heads Schwarzkopf would have done it.
|
|
|
Post by rmc1971 on Mar 9, 2010 18:36:46 GMT -5
+ Thayer, when his job is done with LKC and he's through hanging around illegal bars with (Donovan? and) known felons, going to work for U.S. Intelligence? It would be interesting to know Thayer's exact role in the LKC investigation.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2010 6:23:59 GMT -5
I've got a file on him from both the NJSP & LOC .. What exactly are you looking for? He & Rosner seemed to be working (loosely) as a "team." He answered phones, and once Rosner started to look "phony" he called him out.
|
|
|
Post by rmc1971 on Mar 10, 2010 17:29:15 GMT -5
I'm not exactly looking for anything, really. I am not big into the conspiracy theories. But if I were, and thought there was a cover up going on, I think Donovan and Thayer would be 2 important people to look at.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2010 19:32:28 GMT -5
I think the word "conspiracy" loses its real meaning as it applies to things. There were many "conspiracies" in this case. When, for example, Garrett Schneck approached the NJSP with his complaint that he had been kidnapped and the end result was that he was laughed at or ignored by each and every Trooper he approached...that to me is a conspiracy to deprive him of his rights by a Law Enforcement entity sworn to protect them.
The only concern the NJSP had in connection with Schneck was to get Devine off the Case. Not because of what he did to Schneck either.
See my point?
Now from my own personal perspective... Thayer was probably the least likely of anyone in that house during this time to engage in any "funny" business. That's not to say he didn't see something then walk away keeping his mouth shut - but having him as a Principal in the matter is just a non-consideration from where I am standing. Donovan even moreso.
But of course that's just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by rick3 on Mar 11, 2010 8:45:50 GMT -5
I believe Walsh. Having said that, should his skull have been so easily pierced? ....if CAL told Schwartzkopf to stand on his head--he would! Michael.....it was my impression that it was Schwartzkopf that first volunteered Walsh for the "stick poke" which represents a whole different kettle of fish? As you say, we cant trust Schwarzkopf to any significant degree--hes a puppet? Couldnt an experienced forensic pathologist like Dr. Charles H Mitchell tell the difference between a gunshot and paper thin skull-stickpoke? Is it possible that a gunshot might imply CAL was not negotiating in good faith? Did Walsh later split with Scwartzkopf when he wrote his Jersey Journal articles...Fall 1932? Maybe over Violet Sharpe?
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 11, 2010 19:13:33 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean. I think it was Walsh's decision to use the stick to turn him over just as sticks were used to lift him to get the clothing off.
I can only go by this one. Saying its a possible gunshot means just that. It doesn't mean it was, absolutely, because he also claims there could have been other causes as well.
Jealousy caused the split. Any time someone took the spotlight off of Schwarzkopf he got his feelings hurt. Schwarzkopf labeled Walsh as having a case of "Lindberghitis" privately. This is something "cranks" got tagged with when referring to wacky letters that came in.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 12, 2010 19:20:31 GMT -5
+ Streetwise Violet (admittedly pickup babe, phony marriage, hangs at roadhouses, hangs at telephone of Morrow residence) is so devistated that Sep Banks will learn of infadelities and so she pulls the plug. Remember, she wasn't about to confront Banks, it was the police she was about to confront again when/why she did it.
+ There was a comment, "where are the bodies?" There are a lot more than Violet, including: Frank Nash (killed in Kansas City by Special Agent Lackey who sat across the street from Condon's residence minutes after JFC & CAL left to deliver the ransom) whom snitches said (Nash) was the Lindbergh kidnapper. Coincedence?
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 12, 2010 21:27:21 GMT -5
+ More bodies: Elisabeth Morrow-Whatever (untimely death); Oliver Whatley (untimely death); Isadior Fisch (untimely and very young death); Septamus Banks (untimely death); another suicide(totally unexplained); more . . .
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Mar 12, 2010 22:05:07 GMT -5
+ More bodies: CAL Jr ( extremely untimely) + Even More bodies: See NY Times Obits 3/1932- 3/1935
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 12, 2010 22:11:06 GMT -5
I have no idea who rmc1971 is, but Michael, are you dodging his/her question? Regarding conspiracy? I could bring up any two individuals as you do and conclusively (to most minds) say that there was no conspiracy. Yet, the fact that they had little to do with the crime and were so obscure as to not even be found in any books (Gardnerand others) just adds to their obscurity. So Donovan and Thayer were not obscure - what about them them? In the first place it very seems neither of them belonged there. I remember the first time I heard about the meetings and I said - DONOVAN? Still, rmc has a legit. Q and the people he is talking about are real - not backscreen. So why not just answer more directly? Both Donovan and Thayer went on to very advanced U.S. Intelligence - you might mention that. Thayer was independently rich yet hung with known felons in illegal bars, you could mention that. Donovan at the time was a politician yet was let into the Lindbergh circle because . . . who knows? So they are an odd couple. Donoven later created the OSS, etc. As an aside I looked up Nosovitsky on the internet and was directed to a file President Nixon held for homosexuals in government. Is there more to Lindbergh???
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 12, 2010 23:03:23 GMT -5
I'm not up on Cal Jr. - thought he died about 1960 after achieving Dr. as who-knows-what. Also check the Bronx Home News 1900 - 1953 and most memorable event is ? Andrews appearing at some high school stadium. Certainly a lot of people died in NY 1932-1935 - some names? Are you saying, Kevkon, that people just die? Well of course, yes they do. But a series of unusual deaths is unusual. Just for one example, Frank Nash who was claimed by persons interregated to have been the Lindbergh Kidnapper (I have many sources) was gunned down by Agent Lackey in 1934 - before - sources said - he was incarcerated and tell what he knew about the LKC. Also Lackey was the agent stationed across the street from Condon's home on the BS ransom mission. (I have evidence that two agents observed the payoff!) This is not BS. I'll show you about Nash and it's something perhaps you havn't considered until now. But to just say junk is typical of you and don't do that in this case because there is something there. Hey - for what, 80 years this is an insolvovable crime - I believe all crimes are solvable. So be with me or against me but look up deceased in NY between 1932 and 1936 on your own.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 13, 2010 8:23:15 GMT -5
Do you really believe this? She's "streetwise" but kills herself over a Drunkard possibly finding out she'd stepped out one night?
I don't think I am....
I simply think the word "conspiracy" has taken on a meaning of its own that isn't representative of what it actually is. This happens all over the place all the time. Was there a "conspiracy" in this Case?
Absolutely, there were a myriad of conspiracies. I could find one a day for the rest of my life as they involve this Case. I really could.
Does that mean "ET" or someone from Mars landed and took CJr. away? No, but that's why people are afraid to use the word, or in the alternative, why people use it to harm any argument they do not like.
A conspiracy is simply an agreement by 2, or more, people to commit a wrongful act. And so, if anyone thinks that is rare then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
A perfect example would be Troopers Lewis & Kelly selling the Nursery photos to the newspapers. This was strictly forbidden but they both thought they could get away with it. So should we now assume Kelly, who risked his career by being involved in a CONSPIRACY with Lewis, wouldn't do so if Wilentz, Schwarzkopf, - or both - are telling him what to do?
That's for the individual Researcher to decide.
In fact, people like Fisher like to call others "Revisionists" when his own book revises many of the true facts in this Case. So, in essence, if you allege a conspiracy, any conspiracy, then you can add "Revisionist" to the labels - but it doesn't include those who agree with him - even though he's wrong so often I've lost count.
You have to look and consider all possibilities then intelligently eliminate them. Saying something didn't happen, when there are examples of it happening elsewhere, would have to be based upon good solid evidence - and not negative buzz-words like "Conspiracy" & "Revisionist."
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Mar 13, 2010 9:16:56 GMT -5
Guess I just can't help it. What I don't understand though, is why do I read posts by you that contain my "junk".
I have heard that it happens.
Just a word regarding conspiracy as it pertains to this case. I certainly agree that as Michael said any number of conspiracies may have taken place. If they involve a very small group of like-minded individuals, I believe they may escape detection, at least for awhile. However, a large scale criminal conspiracy involving many different individuals is almost impossible to hide. As a conspiracy gets larger it naturally gets more complex. And as this complexity grows it leaves that much more evidence of it's existence. I'll agree that under the perfect circumstances such a large criminal conspiracy may escape prosecution, but that doesn't mean it escapes detection. Essentially then, if one believes such a large conspiracy was in play with the LKC, the job of detecting it should not be too difficult. it's also important to remember that this wasn't just any crime, this was the Lindbergh case. There were many motives for people to do things which were not strictly speaking on the up and up. Those actions, though suspicious and even criminal should not be confused with the actions taken with the commission of the crime.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 16:42:57 GMT -5
I totally agree.
All this jive certainly doesn't exonerate Hauptmann. If it was a conspiracy involving BRH and others these guys are never gonna rat. The only way rats happen is getting better sentencing, and Richard was on a fast track to hell with no looking back.
I believe the correct motive hasn't been yet discovered because, as you say, this crime wasn't bumping the candy store in some small town they drove through.
Noso DID have Mexican connections as did Dwight Sr. Fisch DID have some money available even though he attemped to appear impoverished.
If a connection between JJN and IF could be established (Rick?) the biggie would be much closer towards being actually solved (as opposed to being solved only in one's mind).
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 13, 2010 17:06:26 GMT -5
I would say that common sense says you're right. But its based upon those cases where the plot is revealed.
Obviously the "bigger" the plot, the more complicated, or the more important - its harder to keep it quiet. But this is based upon those plots which have been discovered. The ones that aren't we simply devise explanations other then a conspiracy to explain it. But how do we know?
Fact is - we really don't. We really don't even know what the odds of the situation would be simply because we can't factor in what we do not know.
Like with the Lewis/Kelly situation. Lewis got caught because the Reporter ratted him out. Schwarzkopf knew Lewis must have gotten the photos from someone else but Lewis took it under the chin rather then rat out Kelly and potentially save his job. So does this mean Schwarzkopf was wrong simply because Lewis wouldn't talk?
Think about this for a minute.
How we find out that Kelly was the one occurs through the fact that over 3 years later when Lewis throws his trust behind Gov. Hoffman. So once that happens it goes from the Reporter, Lewis, and Kelly to Gov. Hoffman and his Staff (Lutz, Conklin, etc.), his Investigators (Parker, Meade, Ho-age, Foster etc.), and others (Kimberling, etc.). At this point, the numbers just grew exponentially.
And yet it wasn't until Gov. Byrne issued the Executive order sometime in the 1980s releasing these documents that this fact even becomes known.
The more I research then find "unique" material I discover many of which involve conspiracies. Some involve more then 2 people and some being very different from each other. How does all of this remain "unknown" for over 70+ years?
The next issue I wanted to address is that while if something happens in one place, then its not beyond the realm of possibility that it could happen in another. So yes, Kelly wasn't above lying. But if he does lie where we suspect he does, is this indicative of concrete proof that he does so for the exact reasons we suspect?
This is where the waters get very muddy. Our choices aren't always black & white or limited to one or the other. There may be a multitude of various reason why someone does what they do.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 17:14:11 GMT -5
No, Michael, I do not believe Violet killed herself over Sep Banks. If you look a little more closely, you'll notice that I'm being facetious about that. I believe that Violet was the 1930's version of what is nowdays perfectly legal prostitution - mom's friend. Hey, she kept up her bank account and sent money home - nothing wrong with that.
But she committed suicide because of very heat in the wrong direction that was about to happen.
She spilled something to either Red or more probably a complete unknown (who knows who she'd really been riding around with) by hanging at the phone which resulted in Jr's. death - and when she found that he was dead she quickly did herself - it's almost all in the data you keep quoting - look at the timeline, and as Kevkon says, look at the money and her spending patterns. YA! She spent like ZERO for three years?
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 17:44:06 GMT -5
Ok - Vincent Bugliosi (sp?) perhaps the most famous prosecutor of all time said, and I don't have the book handy for the exact quote, as a rule to prosecution, that they should assume everything they hear is a lie. He was writing at the time about Furman and said it's very unusual to get caught, and the courts don't even attempt to persue most testimony.
So, for example, we've got to assume Gerta Henkle is short of the truth when she states BRH simply came over every morning for coffee and great cookies before he clobbered the stock exchange.
You hit the right button - there's an unknown motive over and above monetary here. Somebody didn't like CAL or Sr. enough to dust kid, and it's somebody very tough and though Hauptmann might qualify as bad enough there's NO MOTIVE.
+ Richard enjoys Gerta Henkel's company over coffee in the mornings before he goes to work (hang around the ticker-tape).
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 18:10:39 GMT -5
You're right Michael, but you're not looking at things totally. As it stands, BRH just got extremely lucky (correct window, night, etc.) and pulled it off. Why couldn't he have gotten lucky when involved with others? Why couldn't he have been the ladder and climb man for someone he probably didn't even know who was? Why couldn't he have been paid say 10K (Fisch could have come up with that or Richard could have gotten laundered firsts) front money for his services? If he was told to bust the kid - hey, as Kevkon says, follow the money.
It has always seemed that the only reason to wipe the nursery was that if it showed Ollie's prints - why was he ever there. Bingo - if somebody had pics of Ollie and Violet that have never been revealed = HEY, YOU"VE SOLVED AN UNSOLVABLE CRIME!
Now that's just one scenario of many - did Betty come to Hopewell on Tuesday because Charles needed affection? Anne seems nice, but kinda like a dwarf. Do you think Betty would ever tell that?
So, there's something we don't know that can be figured out - but not simply by thinking BRH got lucky - he's the only one who didn't.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 18:29:38 GMT -5
Interestingly, Michael, Kelly is mentioned in FBI/BI files, but Lackey is not.
In 1934: A researcher claims that Lackey through "haphazard use of an unknown weapon" killed Nash, SA Connelly, and a local officer. Lackey was not reprimanded and went on to retire in 1947 and become an oil industry executive.
Now do you believe that a SA would be unfamiliar with a shotgun?
And it goes to show that - follow the money (should read follow the whatever) - no one, even a fellow agent, stands in the way of a mission.
This junk (the whole Lindbergh Line) has been believed for so many years . . .
|
|
|
Post by rick3 on Mar 13, 2010 18:37:49 GMT -5
I totally agree. All this jive certainly doesn't exonerate Hauptmann. If it was a conspiracy involving BRH and others these guys are never gonna rat. The only way rats happen is getting better sentencing, and Richard was on a fast track to hell with no looking back. I believe the correct motive hasn't been yet discovered because, as you say, this crime wasn't bumping the candy store in some small town they drove through. Noso DID have Mexican connections as did Dwight Sr. Fisch DID have some money available even though he attemped to appear impoverished. If a connection between JJN and IF could be established (Rick?) the biggie would be much closer towards being actually solved (as opposed to being solved only in one's mind). Jack--I axed Patty Doyle about links between Noso + Fisch in Nov 2009: "Noso was in the pie business and, I think, fur business with Fish. I did find a law suit with both Fish and Nosovitsky names on it as the pie business went bust. Naturally, another con by the two. They also had a ladies apparel business, (most business on Webster Ave.) Noso was in the cosmetic business as well as the card manufacturing shop where Dinny worked as a jigsawer. I think they might have been making ladies coats or dresses, but coats seems to come to mind. Noso spent some time incarcerated with Dinny and Wally Stroh in Rikers and also on Welfare Island or was it the island where Potters field is? While there he was a medic. Being Dinny had seizures (pretty bad and pretty frequently) he probably would have met Noso in jail. That is where he and Wally met Noso. I think that Miller the card business part owner also might have been in jail. I know that Miller also had dealings with Noso. Probably even the greeting card business. I remember, as a young girl in the 1950s maybe around 56, my Grandmother worked at a greeting card business. It was a greeting card manufacturing business in Yonkers on Saw Mill River Rd. I had to wonder if that was Miller business and it moved from Webster Ave. to Yonkers. A move of about 10 maybe 15 miles. I remember we would drive over to pick her up at work. Do we know what happened to Nosovitsky? Was he still alive in the 50s, maybe mid 50's?" (end quote)
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 19:52:34 GMT -5
Heard Noso died in 1937 but it's difficult to find information about him. As I stated earlier he's on a list (FBI) that President Nixon had of known homosexuals in government. Not sure why, if he died in '37 Nixon would care about him, BUT HE DID. Still alive?
I have a former FBI Special Agent and access to actual files for all BI/FBI related material, including SA Lackey, who, though ignored to date on this board could be a key to the entire crime. Hey Rick - if Nash was involved w/LKC - SA Lackey dusted him in cold blood in 1934! Remember Lackey was across the street in an apartment watching Condon's house.
Supposedly (The Lindbergh Line?) Sr. burned Noso on a Mexican deal (which Noso as we know did get money for). Noso was bad news - even Hoover was afraid of him (have backup). Noso would have chomped Hoover's paramor in a wink.
So how can you disappear when Hoover wants to know where you are? I sure don't know but Noso did it.
So if Noso is pissed at Sr. because of $ or perhaps CAL because of (bad sex?) he could very well be the unknown factor - which Lindbergh knew about and perhaps was expecting and that would explain CAL's unusual actions.
Link between IF and Noso looks good!
Strangely my mother was a greeting card illustrator - wish I had some of her cards.
Back to basics - Dinny was involved in a Hauptmann interrogation supposedly because he knew of bad junk about Jafsie. How much bad junk did he really know and is that why he was really there? Dinny was incarcerated at the time. Pat Doyle remembers Dinny as an hombre.
This will go on "The Lindbergh Line," Dinny Doyle says ya - let me get back to sleep.
Actual statement: Hoover believed "that Noso was JJ Faulkner but was not involved in the crime." Come on J. Edgar - that's as strong as your saying organized crime does not exist while you're chasing Frank Nash's buddies all over the country! Hoover knew Noso socially, (?) Hoover said, (what the heck does that mean - Noso usually was a bum) but not financially (What does that mean?).
The Lindbergh Line . . . tx r
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 20:28:54 GMT -5
Looking more closely - YOU DID IT RICK!
The major hump in the Lindbergh Crime is solved. - Tx Pat!
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 13, 2010 20:48:30 GMT -5
Did you check Patsy's stomach contents?
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Mar 14, 2010 9:44:47 GMT -5
I have never ignored anything about this case. It's why its taking me so long to put something together. I've looked into Lackey's investigation concerning his surveilling the Condon residence some 6 years ago. The thing about this Case is that there isn't a "corner" on the material that is out there. There is just so much anyone could have or read something I didn't even know existed. It's why this board is so important.
Inspired by A&M's interview with Lupica, I've spoken to some people over the years who told me they had NEVER been interviewed about the Case. That amazes me knowing a guy like Dave went around the country interviewing everyone he could. Although, if you think about it, many who were alive then obviously aren't now - but I've got the internet!
And so my point is this: Try putting together a list of ALL Investigators who did any type of work on this Case. Can't do it can you? And that's with those you know about. Try assembling a list of any name connected to the Case. It's impossible. It just can't be done. Jack, if you think Lackey is the solution to the Case by all means have at it. I will do whatever I can to find things to complement you're research and at the very least read what you've written in an attempt to learn about your position.
I know that Nash is mentioned in certain investigations...one being the Leavenworth Escape where Warden White was taken hostage.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 14, 2010 16:52:17 GMT -5
Tx Michael. My point is simply that Nash was a person of interest by his own statements re:TLC and he just happened to be killed by the guy who was watching Jafsie. Now, I believe in coincidences - they happen all the time - but that one runs right off the board.
Nash was a hard man, and I don't personally think had anything to do with the crime. If Novo is filtered into this case, however, it means there is one which little is known about. Seems from what he says in jail to be a Condonlike blabbermouth. If Nash was a friend of Novo's (Rick?) and they discussed No's latest escipades then perhaps Nash knew what he was talking about.
Part of the problems seem to be a government coverup. Can you tell me why Donovan, and hence Thayer were even involved at all? Friends of Lindbergh? Friends of Breckenridge?
I stated earlier that Breckenridge was the key to the whole thing because the (line) kidnapper(s) had a route through him, but chose to wait until Condon became involved - even said in the note that they would wait. And we're supposed to believe that a babie's body is waiting to be found in the woods all this time?
Torio stated to FBI that two "intelligence agents" told him that they observed the payoff at St. Raymond's. This was an aside statement while he was discussing something else (his taxes?) with agents. Aside from the obvious of hold Torio down and hit him with the broom until he tells all, why didn't the government whom this was reported to even care to follow up on it?
Just as one possibility, what if agents (who according to the Lindbergh Line weren't supposed to even be there) saw Ralph Hacker receiving the cash? It would blow the Lindy world apart - and could never be reported - AS APPARENTLY IT WASN'T!
Torio would have absolutely no reason to lie about that - in fact it could even be detrimental to him. So, just to put it into simple terms, agents must have observed something very not wanting to be seen at St. Raymond's. Couple that with Lackey's unlikely initial observance of the Condon residence (YA!) which started a few minutes after JFC & CAL left for the cemetary, and there is a wonderment of government interest in The Lindbergh Crime! Why would Hoover even give a S to have Lackey there in the first place - correctly, BI/FBI wasn't even involved with investigating the crime! So did Hoover know this was Noso's gig and was following it? Did Noso spit it out to him (Hoover)? "I knew him socially," Hoover said of Noso. Homosexuals in government? What did Irish Pat say about Tricky in the rack? Why would Nixon want a list from the FBI of homosexuals in government (going back 50 years)? Was Lindbergh on that list?
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Mar 18, 2010 5:52:29 GMT -5
Dwight Sr. was dead at the time of the kidnapping. Yet while he was alive he even warned Charles of the kidnapping, and advised him to have an area guard. Does this mean the kidnapping was now simply for money? Fifty thousand doesn't sound like much nowdays, but in 1932 it related to $ 500,000 plus in today's cash. And Noso (seems usually broke by where it is known he lived) may have simply going for money and after a family he didn't care for, and the child was murdered so there is emotional influence as well.
So Noso and Fisch want to come up with a cash cow after their other schemes havn't been working (see above) and come up with the Lindbergh plan which is Noso's idea because he doesn't like the family and feels they owe him $ 50K. They watch the papers and the new house and CAL is away Tuesday so Noso uses Richard's hastily made ladder and nabs Jr. and probably kills him. They leave the burlap bag by the road so they can simply drive by and see if the bag is still there, that means the body (buried) has not been discovered.
Most of the money is dumped in the first few days and BRH is paid in clean cash. Hauptmann blows it on stocks, radios, trips, and Gerta and when Fisch bails to Europe he tries to pass what's left but gets slammed.
At this time J.E. Hoover is looking for Noso (why?) and does not find him.
Interesting coincedences:
J.E. Hoover (known Homosexual) - Dr. Noso on President Nixon's list of homosexuals in government.
Special Agent Lackey - across the street observing Condon's house and the Agent who assinated Frank Nash (possible Lindbergh kidnapper by his own testimony) along with another Special Agent and a local police official.
Betty Gow - arrested with boyfriend in park for lude behavior yet never reprimanded by Lindbergh or Morrow administration.
Violet Sharpe - lied repeatedly to police regarding actual day and night of kidnapping.
Ollie Whateley - kept watchdog in servant's parlor during kidnapping times.
Anne Lindbergh - did not look in on "ill" child during evening of 3/1/32, can also be said of BG.
Elizabeth Morrow - learned of kidnapping evening of 3/1 but did not appear "for daughter" until 11:00 the next morning.
Charles Lindbergh - did not attend scheduled NY meeting 3/1.
Col. Breckenridge - arrived at CAL residence about 2:00 AM and, sometimes with Lindbergh, guided newspaper reporters through the crime scene. Breck also received one of the ransom notes which advised him the kidnappers would select a "go-between." Wouldn't the guys after the money want to get this part over with?
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Mar 18, 2010 7:54:54 GMT -5
My take, yes if they had an unharmed hostage. Think for a moment though about the scenario when you can't return the victim. It's a slippery slope. It takes a cool character to play it out since you are holding an empty hand of cards. Playing that hand out successfully requires the right opponents. Otherwise you will be called.
|
|