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Post by xjd on Dec 12, 2016 22:30:00 GMT -5
to my un-expert eye, the man in the picture with the little boy seems younger than those pictures of Orville Wilson. which means it's not Orville as (judging by the age of the child) it is clearly taken after the time of Orville's 15 minutes of fame. unless he Benjamin Button-ed himself into aging in reverse.
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Aimee
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Posts: 387
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Post by Aimee on Dec 21, 2016 11:15:08 GMT -5
This letter from Dr. Philip Van Ingen to Mrs. Morrow still may connect the dots. I use to think that this letter was an explanation of death details of the baby they found in the woods. I am now beginning to think that the top portion was about my dad (Birthdate - February 18th) and the bottom portion was about the baby that was gingerly cut up and placed into the woods. February 18th? Safe Diet? Why would someone use that terminology? Specifying a time for breakfast - but no other time for any other meals? Dinner? Dinner Con't? Supper? Arms..legs..head..raw..cut .juice coming out..raw..chop chop Cod Liver? What ever happened to the Viosterol and Vitamin D? Kindest thing to do is to keep silent? Do not acknowledge this letter...and if you need me..just say New Jersey wants me (That just plain pisses me off) Attachment Deleted
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Dec 21, 2016 11:16:16 GMT -5
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Post by xjd on Dec 21, 2016 23:43:49 GMT -5
can someone remind me WHY Dr. Van Ingen is writing to Mrs. Morrow on May 4 of '32?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 22:51:18 GMT -5
I am not really clear why he wrote this letter either. I don't understand why Dr. Van Ingen would need to give her all this physical information plus the diet. She was seeing Charlie all the time. He was eating at Next Day Hill 5 days a week. For some reason she must have requested all the details of Charlie's last check up. I just don't know why she needed the information. The diet Van Ingen put into his letter is not the diet Charlie was eating at the time of his kidnapping. Anne gave the newspapers a different diet for Charlie. I find it hard to believe that Betty Morrow was unaware of Charlie's health issues.
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Post by xjd on Dec 23, 2016 9:31:23 GMT -5
thanks Amy! it's weird, because he's writing during the time before the body in the woods was discovered (or placed there, depending on one's theory!). so why would Mrs. Morrow need confirmation of Charlie's physical statistics? and yes, the diet is different. something strange is going on here i wonder if, despite being Charlie's grandmother & them living with her during the weekdays, Mrs. Morrow didn't really have daily interactions with him. seems like that was not uncommon with the super-rich. in the Gloria Vanderbilt custody battle between her mother and her aunt Gertrude Whitney, Gertrude was awarded custody (and Gloria's trust fund!) because Gloria's mother was deemed inattentive. which she was but so was Gertrude Whitney who had very little to do with Gloria on a day to day basis.
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dave
Detective
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Post by dave on Dec 23, 2016 9:39:46 GMT -5
Micheal,
I have made arrangements to get the pictures shot in Hopewell in the days following the kidnapping and before the body was found. Do you or anyone else on this site know if a car in 1932 with a New York tag would have the same tag in 1934? I don't know how DMV New York worked then.
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Post by steve romeo on Dec 23, 2016 9:56:21 GMT -5
I think they changed plates every year but im not positive
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Post by Michael on Dec 23, 2016 17:13:54 GMT -5
Micheal, I have made arrangements to get the pictures shot in Hopewell in the days following the kidnapping and before the body was found. Do you or anyone else on this site know if a car in 1932 with a New York tag would have the same tag in 1934? I don't know how DMV New York worked then.
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Post by lightningjew on Dec 23, 2016 21:20:29 GMT -5
I always thought that the reason for the letter was because there were rumors about the baby's health, and, to quash them, the family requested something official in writing, which mentioned certain physical abnormalities, but very minor ones--stuff that people could look at and say, "Oh, this is what's being inflated into serious issues..."
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 24, 2016 12:53:36 GMT -5
I am not really clear why he wrote this letter either. I don't understand why Dr. Van Ingen would need to give her all this physical information plus the diet. She was seeing Charlie all the time. He was eating at Next Day Hill 5 days a week. For some reason she must have requested all the details of Charlie's last check up. I just don't know why she needed the information. The diet Van Ingen put into his letter is not the diet Charlie was eating at the time of his kidnapping. Anne gave the newspapers a different diet for Charlie. I find it hard to believe that Betty Morrow was unaware of Charlie's health issues. Seems like Mrs. Morrow might have at least thought that (1) her grandson was still alive and (2) she was in contact with the purported kidnappers (directly or indirectly) and was preparing to instruct them on the baby's diet and to help in the identification of the baby if that opportunity arrived. Another explanation would be that Mrs. Morrow wanted in writing some documentation which would indicate that she thought the baby might still be alive at this point, to cover up her knowledge to the contrary. BTW, does anyone know how that letter from Dr. Van Ingen to Mrs. Morrow became available to the public? Did Mrs. Morrow keep it guarded in her private possession until she died?
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Aimee
Det. Sergeant (FC)
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Post by Aimee on Jan 12, 2017 11:41:29 GMT -5
My dad as a toddler...in a Connecticut or a New Jersey Field.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Jan 12, 2017 11:47:04 GMT -5
Compare photo of my dad to Charles Jr....same toddler?
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Aimee
Det. Sergeant (FC)
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Post by Aimee on Jan 14, 2017 16:41:37 GMT -5
Mystery Books from Dwight Jr... ? It is my belief that he was a major player in the original replacement, but not hands on during the kidnapping. The link that connected my great aunt into the fold. I'm sure Dwight Jr. Had to help with Anne's high altitude miscarriage ..as we all know the delay of the name announcement of Charlie Jr. As for eugenics.. Charles Sr. took advantage of the kidnapping and placed him (my dad..Charles Jr.) back into my aunt's sisters family. Info for gangs.. or prior related experiece.. leads me back to Max Boyer and the Providence Gang.
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Post by hurtelable on Jan 14, 2017 18:58:23 GMT -5
To Aimee:
Is the tiny photo you posted at 11:47 AM on Jan. 12 supposed to be documented to be CAL Jr.? Unfortunately, the latest photo available of a living CAL Jr. was at age one. The photo of your father in the field above it seems to be of a much older child (at least 2 yrs. old and standing securely) so that throws a complication into the facial comparison. To be honest with you, if I had to take an educated guess, they are NOT the same child.
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Aimee
Det. Sergeant (FC)
Posts: 387
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Post by Aimee on Mar 19, 2017 2:25:45 GMT -5
February 18th has come and gone. That was my dad's birthday. My theory still stands. I may not know the dates, time, age or the "Players" in this case, but I do know that I will never be able to get the Lindbergh's DNA to compare it to my dads DNA. I also know that I will not spin circles... and will just have to wait.
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Post by kate1 on Mar 19, 2017 19:56:38 GMT -5
He is adorable.
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jack7
Major
Der Führer
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Post by jack7 on Mar 20, 2017 14:42:46 GMT -5
Your dad looks like a cute little CAL to me, Aimee!
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Aimee
Det. Sergeant (FC)
Posts: 387
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Post by Aimee on Apr 14, 2017 11:34:36 GMT -5
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 14, 2017 20:49:17 GMT -5
To Aimee:
Yes, your father does have that dimpled chin, as did Charlie. But it's not such a rare trait. Again, DNA comparison testing would be about the only way you could test if your father was indeed related to Charlie or even the same individual. Unfortunately, as I stated before, the Lindbergh family gaining custody from the NJSP over Charlie's personal items c. 2003 hampers your research in this regard.
Of course, given that there are so many different individuals out there, living and deceased, odds are strong against your theory.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 17, 2017 6:21:07 GMT -5
Hi Aimee:
It seems to me that since Lindbergh DNA is known by some lab, you could use that as your CAL sample to check with. You'd have to find the lab that did the earlier checks and see if you can even get it, but sounds like a possibility.
Might be expensive - like everything else.
Jack
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Post by scathma on May 4, 2017 10:07:09 GMT -5
In Edna's interview with Schwarzkopf she said (Edna) she was in the hospital 3 months and then two weeks in a convalescent home in White Plains. I took a picture of one of her bills. May 4-7 $4 day Englewood Hospital Association. So she may have been more in and out. For the life of me I didn't record why she was there..I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been a pregnancy or it would have come up in the interview. At the time I was focusing on Violet. Did it take 3 MONTHS to recover from hernia surgery in the 1930's? A quick check on Google indicates today its a 3 week recovery time and most people who have open hernia repair surgery are able to go home the same day.
Can you confirm when Edna quit her job at the school? I recall several months transpired between when she quit and when she actually left the country. Seems odd to quit a stable situation and be unemployed during the Depression only to decide you want to go home to England because you miss your mother... especially if you have an apartment you need to pay rent on in the mean time. Did she move and rent this apartment relative to the kidnapping date?
I'm speculating on the notion that Edna was the intended temporary custodian of CALjr, brought into the scheme by Violet of course and the fact she is not a servant in either household and is one layer removed from suspicion. The sisters are inseparable and Edna also feels indebted to Violet for covering her medical bills during the "hernia" surgery. So Edna quits her job with enough lead time to not be suspicious (like her visa application and departure dates will look in the future) so she can temporarily be the full-time nanny for as long as necessary.
I haven't developed this speculation enough to know whether CAljr ever makes it to this "safe house" alive but his death makes it a moot point - the discovery of the baby's corpse and potential discovery of her sister's involvement is what drives Violet to suicide and motivates Edna to leave the country.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on May 4, 2017 15:01:44 GMT -5
BTW:
Scathma - that is by far the coolest pic of CAL that I've ever seen!
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Post by scathma on May 4, 2017 15:39:53 GMT -5
Thanks, saw it on Pinterest of all places...
Of course it was taken while he was a "spy" counting Messerschmitts, Dorniers, Heinkels, Junkers and Focke-Wulfs for the U.S
"You are the company you keep..."
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on May 5, 2017 1:51:59 GMT -5
His NAZI leanings are kind of a question mark because they could go either way.
There's still information about him that is classified info. by U.S. - even now.
I think he counted frauleins too!
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Post by kate1 on May 5, 2017 8:36:02 GMT -5
Just some thoughts on what happened to the Lindbergh baby. What if CAL wasn't counting the teeth to determine the number but rather abnormalities present and identifiable. And what if the original heighth given ( in terms of inches which babies are measured ) was correct? Perhaps that was the reason for the letter to Mrs. Morrow was to establish further the 33 inches. I don't possibly know how the flight with oxygen deprivation could not damage a 7 month old fetus. Arrested development for sure. Again, keeping an open mind, what if the baby also suffered from Cleidcranial Dysplasia? Looking at the symptoms and some of the baby's characteristics it seems to fit. Not a life threatening but on top of possible serious developmental delays it would probably frighten any good eugenicist Symptoms of this include: low bone density, sometimes requiring high doses of vitamin D; Large openings in the bones of the skull (fontenelles); Short stature, 29 inches would be off the charts for length percentiles for a 20 month old; And finally teeth are effected requiring extensive dental work and often speech therapy. I think for those of us who think CAL was involved in the kidnapping this might offer some thought. I'm trying to keep an open mind
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Post by kate1 on May 5, 2017 8:38:43 GMT -5
This little baby so reminds me of the child in the book Before and After Zachariah. Beautiful child with severe mental developmental issues that only the mother recognized until an ER doc told her he was profoundly retarded mentally. Eventually he was institutionalized because the family couldn't keep him at home. Heartbroken mom. I think Anne knew.
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Post by scathma on May 5, 2017 10:56:17 GMT -5
What if CAL wasn't counting the teeth to determine the number but rather abnormalities present and identifiable. After learning that rickets can affect teeth too, I also wondered if the cremation was to prevent any attempts at identification through dental records (if any existed).
I don't buy the "cremation to prevent grave desecration" story. I believe it was simply to prevent a competent autopsy from ever being performed at any time in the future. Once he was dealing with a dead body and not a live infant with defects, securing or destroying the body were his only options. We know which one he chose.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on May 5, 2017 13:38:20 GMT -5
Regarding teeth, his grandfather was either a dentist, or some kind of doctor dealing with the mouth. CAL might have had an special interest in teeth.
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Post by kate1 on May 5, 2017 13:43:52 GMT -5
On a rotting corpse? He didn't go into dentistry but I believe his grandfather Land had an influence on his interest in science. His inspection was so quick and deliberate I think he was looking for something.
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