dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 2, 2015 13:14:36 GMT -5
"Buster" Keaton lost me really early on in conversations Plebani and I had with him. One example: He told us how he was one of the first to arrive at the Mount Rose location where the baby was found. That while turning the body over with a stick "he" put a small hole in the skull. WIth that statement he lost all credibility with me. The funny thing is when I talked to Mrs. Keaton in 1983 she told me the same story. The family stuck to the party line.
Footprints, how the ladder was moved, and last but far from least the "J.J." deposit slip. It's all great stuff and always makes the crime story much more interesting. Are they facts? You bet! I talked to two tellers who worked in that bank the day the deposit went down, and discussed who assisted by writing the deposit slip for the man making the deposit. Height of the Depression, jobs were at a premium, not to mention fear of jail time. After all it was the crime century! A lot of people kept quiet about the deposit mess, all the way to the grave.
It's a great story, it really is. Shoes sizes, hat sizes, how the money was checked is great to dig for and find answers to. All add color to the story. Cornel and I would definitely bring some color to the story. The stories we got when people were no longer afraid.
But don't lose site of who, how, when and where. Simple!
By the way if Lamb were alive today he would say Denny wasn't as lucky as Norm.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 2, 2015 10:16:24 GMT -5
Simple crime! It's about the crime. Up the ladder. Into the room. Kill the baby. Take the body. Leave a note. Down the ladder. Strip the body. Bury the body. A meeting at Woodlawn. A meeting at St. Raymond's. That is the crime. Everything else is filler. Like the man said: "Everyone wanted to get into the act!"
If someone believes theres a conspiracy, good for them. It's great fun. How many posts? How many words on this site alone? Example: Michael can tell you who built the house Hauptmann was living in when he arrested. When it was built and how much it cost. Great information. Simple crime though!
I can go on for days. This is a great site, and like porn and drugs, it's addictive.
Try not over thinking it, and all of the sudden it becomes very clear. What the Cols did, Footprints, Wood, Handwriting, Time frames, What Condon said, Church's in the Bronx, Beer Gardens, New Shoes for Anna and trips to Gremany. The list goes on and on. "Yea but what about........?" Yea what about it.?
Have fun! The crime, simple. Everything in and around it is a "can" for everyone to keep kicking down the road as they say.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 1, 2015 17:08:36 GMT -5
Hey Amy, Just a quick note. The "folded bill" was a comment made to my good friend Det/Sgt Cornel Plebani and myself by Arthur Keaton. Keaton is where it came from. Cornel bought it hook, line and sinker. He told Fisher and the rest is, shall we say history. I only believed about a third of what Keaton told us. Cornel loved the guy. The perfect image of a Jersey Trooper in the early days. I though he was full of crap. He could have been a great help to researchers, but was too full of himself.
Look into Keaton and Lamb, another real p---- of s---, and the Hall Mills Case. The hits just keep on coming. Forget about Col. "S" he's a Saint when it comes to the NJSP!
I made a comment a few days ago about the problem of research based on other peoples books and not primary sources. Plebani and myself are two of the last three researchers (Mrs. Hauptmann's attorney is the other.) to speak to, I would guess the last forty people who worked the case, were friends of the Hauptmann's, or were involved in the trial and execution. (I talked to Mrs. Hauptmann several times. She wouldn't see me if I came with Plebani. Very sweet lady.) They all have one thing in common now, their all dead! I'm going to discuss with Plebani the idea of he and I sitting down, on film and talking about the case and the key people we got to know. Filming it the museum in Trenton. Could be fun.
Remember,Amy, a simple crime, in a simpler time.
A simple crime!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on May 27, 2015 13:17:54 GMT -5
You gotta be kidding me! A Jeckyll Island connection to the Lindbergh Case. Simple time, simple crime. My friend David Irving once said: "Someone writes a book, uses one book that's plagiarism. Two books that's research. Three books that's in depth research." You can totally over think this case Alan.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jul 2, 2014 17:58:25 GMT -5
When it comes to defending Hauptmann for me, I say again for me, there are only two problems. Rail 16 and how it relates to S226, and the second is a letter Hauptmann wrote. The form of the letter, I think Michael posted it on this site, is very close to the first ransom note. The "Dear Sir" has ALWAYS been a problem for me. Both issues are going to take a lot of work. I really don't have a lot of worry about the other aspects of the case.
We had a DVD signing in London last night and today are getting ready to fly back to the States. (Check out The Unbelievers.) I'm a little slow today!
I have a lot of material that Hauptmann's friends gave me over the years. Most of it deals with period of jumping off the ship to the winter of 1931. It helps me understand the man. I've been around him, his family and his friends, since 1981. (I think Manfred and his wife are still alive, but everyone else is dead.) You know I have to say I kind of like the guy. Remember the old "what five people would you invite to dinner?" For me he would be one of the five.
Thanks for any suggestions!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jul 2, 2014 12:03:58 GMT -5
Michael, I am aware of Purdy. Do me a favor and post what you have on "Purdy-Klein." That would be a big help with my defense plan. I always had issues with Rail 16 and S 226 but never discussed it much when I spent the summer of 1983 in New Jersey. Cornel didn't have any idea how I could come to any conclusion about them being two different pieces of wood. One day Col. Paganio came down the "Research Room," that's what it was called then, to see how I was doing. I explained my thoughts on Rail 16 and S226.His comment was simple and direct,"Alll one piece Dave, all one piece."
I would be very grateful for anyone's input !
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jul 1, 2014 14:41:48 GMT -5
If I were defending Hauptmann how would I respond to the research done by Kelvin Keraga and the Springfield picture? As many responses as possible please!!!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Mar 10, 2014 22:50:52 GMT -5
Been gone a while, but checked the site when I could. The singnature. Someone should look Into what the NJSP found when they went to Germany. It's got nothing to do with side by side circles of equality, or waves formed with blue ink.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Sept 8, 2013 22:57:37 GMT -5
Friends, Romans and Countrymen. Thanks for a great, I repeat great start with your response to my request for information. Just so you all know, due a lot of commitments of my time, most of my posts in response to your posts will be on the weekends. At least for a while.
Thanks, Dave
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Sept 8, 2013 22:44:26 GMT -5
Babyinthecrib thanks for the post, but who paid who off? I haven't heard that one before.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Sept 8, 2013 19:11:36 GMT -5
Aimee,
As I have said before, I won't waste any time the "Charlie's Alive" concept.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Sept 8, 2013 14:48:03 GMT -5
Let's start out very simple. Who saw Hauptmann at or around Hopewell and the Lindbergh home? This may sound like a very weak and over discussed point but I have my reasons. If we can please stay away from those talked about in Fisher's masterpiece "Ghosts" I would be very grateful!
One point I will give no consideration to is the question of -"Did the Lindbergh baby survive the night of March 1st 1932?" That is a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. Sorry if this upsets some, but your floggin' a dead mule. As my good friend British Historian David Irving always tell me: "Dave hide nothing no matter who it upsets!" I've heard it all before: "If there's no dead baby," yea I know the whole pitch. Sorry folks but I'm just not interested.
Thanks in advance for any help you send my way.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Sept 8, 2013 1:13:01 GMT -5
I'm going to pose some, I hope, some new questions about Richard Hauptmann in the near future. Along with some of the old questions again with maybe a little different twist. I look forward to your input.
Thanks, Dave
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 29, 2013 14:31:45 GMT -5
I hope everyone has a nice summer!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 29, 2013 13:54:01 GMT -5
Hi Amy,
Clue. Was the last person to ever talk to Richard Hauptmann. Another. Replaced H. Norman.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 29, 2013 13:26:06 GMT -5
Hey Michael,
How can we make his case any more complicated? Maybe one more theory. Some folks on this site have been on the cuttiing edge of a "new theory" for last few days and not even known it!
I remember in the summer of 1983 I had a picnic lunch with about twenty students from the University of Delaware. The location was the little stream between Conovers farm and the Lindbergh property. Back then there were ducks and a steady heavy stream of water. Do you think maybe it was even larger and stronger in 1932? Not "white water," but you know stronger! You know where this going right? Could a small boat have been used? Or dare I say a "Canoe." There has to be at least thirty posts and threads that could be done on this idea alone. Or has it already been covered? Let me know. I have pictures of cute college girls by the stream feeding the ducks.
I'll say this, for over 30 years I've seen and read all the theories. I met five guys and a woman who with all their hearts and guts believed they were "Charlie." Michael I had never heard of your buddy in Orlando, Florida. I grew up in Florida, just 40 miles from him, but never heard of him until about a year and a half ago. What a missed opportunity that was!!
Anyway, it's great fun. I have enjoyed every second that I have been around the case. Your statement about getting your head around the case and having an understanding I find troubling . Once it's figured out, than what? Have you given any consideration to what that would do to all the other case experts? If you haven't maybe you should.
I had a chance to meet a lady in 1985 who was a friend of "LIzzy" up in Fall River. She wanted to talk about the Lindbergh Case. Before we said goodbye she said: "You know young man when your done with "Lindy" there's always room for one more theory on "Lizzy." I was just a child but no one has considered me for the murders yet." Kind of sums it up don't you think?
Anyway you and "Bookrefuge" should get on the "the stream theory!" I mean now! Right away!" Let me know if you could use the picture of the girls feeding the ducks. They could help you guys with developing the way the stream has changed over the last 80 plus years.
Take care, Dave
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 29, 2013 0:59:58 GMT -5
Food for thought. You know what this site needs is a little character who hides in the lower right hand corner of the screen. He would pop up when ever the suggestions and theories get too lame or crazy.
No wait, I think I read a book with this stupid concept of a little character that keeps showing up to correct or instruct the author of the book when he gets a little sideways of clear thinking. Sorry I brought it up! Its a concept that's really very juvenile. It must have been a really pathetic book because the reappearing little character is all I remember about the book.
Really bad idea. My only defense is that I wasn't the one who came up with the concept. The author didn't make much of an impression on me because I can't remember his name or the title of his book. If I ever happen to run across it, I will post the title and author so you won't wast your time like I did!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 29, 2013 0:04:27 GMT -5
I have met men and women that I didn't like. Thats me not Will. Lewis Bornmann gave me "simpler time, simple crime."
One question I have hated for over 40 years is: How did Hauptmann know they were there that night, when they were never there on a week night before? And I always have the same answer. He didn't know that! He didn't know only weekends. He didn't know about the babies cold. When he left the Bronx that morning all he knew was that Lindbergh and his family lived in that house in Hopewell, New Jersey. Period! Earlier in the afternoon he could have seen Mrs. Lindbergh throwing a small stone up at the nursery window and Gow bringing the baby to wave to his mother, you know the story.
But he saw the baby at that window on that day. What luck! Think about it, if they had left on Sunday or Monday as usual, he would have gone into that house on that first night in March 1932, through who knows what window and found only Ollie and his wife, and I believe that would have been a real mess. He may have known which room was the nursery (could have read press reports about the house) but who knows.
The "How did Hauptmann know?" question has produced a whole industry so to speak. Inside help, Lindbergh told him, the mob did it, Red Johnson got a call from Betty, the dog didn't bark, Violet called Eddie and it goes on and on. Just Hauptmann on a lucky day, thats too easy so let's make it hard and very complicated.
Like Captin Bornmann said to me one night when I was sitting in living room near Atlantic City, New Jersey - "Dave it was a simpler time and a simple crime."
Now I'm sure someone will argue with this very simple logic, so let the games begin. The question is will I respond?
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 21:12:29 GMT -5
Hey Michael,
Point well taken. I am aware of Von Nieda, and the quote you used, and the work he did.
Yep, everybody walked the the driveway. Found nothing of interest! There were those who went into Hauptmann's attic. Found nothing of interest!
I think the sting on the thumbguard would be tied even if not in use. I do not believe the body of the Lindbergh baby left with Hauptmann down that drive way.
The thumbguard was found in April, look at some of the pictures of the cars in the field around Featherbed. Shot from the air. They could have brought the guard to the point where it was found. In the mud of a fender, in a wheel well, in a tire spoke, just to name three ways.
The guard was found yes, but it almost becomes a point that screams: "So what!"
What do you think? It's just not a really big deal. Kind of like the handkerchief found on a sidewalk out side a cemetery .
One thing about this case is that every point, after 80 years, someone can find a counter point. What a deal!
As far as "little" Ben Lupica goes, I'll quote my friend Lewis Bornmann : "That kid was a disappointment to me." I'll go more into that later.
Have a great weekend. Could be 120 here tomorrow!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 20:12:52 GMT -5
I knew Wayne real well. I am very aware of Bill Wright. When Wayne died I was contacted by Wayne's wife, and was told that she sending me all of Wayne's files. In the material was the deposition. I also own the writings of Harry Young. The famous notebook!
I have a very clear understanding of what I believe happened in Hopewell. While I owe Wayne a lot, through him I became close friends with people who were close to Hauptmann, I think he bought into a story, story and nothing more. These folks come along every so often. Now we have Robert Zorn, and I'm going to be very cold about this and simply say that all the Wright, Young, Stover and Zorm material is fact based fiction, (crazy term huh?) and is of no real value. It takes up space and if you decide to spend too time with it you miss the real story. And yes my friend Tony Scaduto is in this mix.
Wayne Jones and Robert Zorn are added to the list of writers (Scaduto, Wright, Dutch, Kennedy and Vitary) who's material is part of the file but of no real value.
Got my drift?
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 17:08:03 GMT -5
OK! I found it. How can you sit down and type that much. Just looking at the post turns my brain to over-load. I start seeing red lights flashing in the sides of my eyes. Do the question in a hundred words or less. Holy crap!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 16:58:50 GMT -5
To Bookrefuge,
I don't do well with "go to's." What's the question? I hate computers and go to here or go to there!
What's the question?
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 13:30:29 GMT -5
Not a question for Michael or Joe or Kevin .
Does anybody know who the guy in the picture at the left is?
Just a fun question! Everyone likes to give the right answer once in awhile.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 12:56:06 GMT -5
The "Bag" I always found very interesting. I really believe it was used to get the body out the window and down the ladder. Across the field to Featherbed Lane and into the car and the race up the Mount Rose Highway to the gravesite. You could see the Lindbergh House from the garvesite in 1932.
1/ Hauptmann dumps the body on the ground. Strips the body of sleeping suite. Drops the body back in bag and does a quick not very good job of burying the kid. 2/ Condon wants proof that Hauptmann's got the kid. Has to go back to Hopewell and digs up the body. Dumps the body out of the bag, strips the suite, throws body in bag, or forgets the bag, and burys the body again. Forgetting bag means bag is left by grave.
Now anyway you look at this the body was not buryed very deep. Alas, "Pot Luck" for every living thing in the woods where the body is. The thumb guards, who knows, maybe used in a nest somewhere. If the body was buried in the bag, animals got it out. Check the reports for what body parts were missing. Hands? What was the status of the hands? You have hands, wrists, you have the "THUMB GUARDS!.
Now someone has to ask: "But Dave what about the Boy Scouts who walked that area? They didn't see a bag or the body ." Hey your right, so what? Maybe they missed it. Maybe the animals had not gotten to the body yet. Maybe, maybe the scouts and the cops never looked there! Why would they?
Don't over think this. All you will get is a headache !
Simple crime, simpler time.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2013 11:55:47 GMT -5
Are those "thumb guards" on blue velvet? They look like Holy Relics.
How many sets of those guards do you think the family had? When the baby was taken for a walk in his stroller where do you think they went? Across the field where the runway was being built? Stumps, cut down trees, roots, mud, knee high field grass to Featherbed Lane maybe? No! They went down the driveway. Was't the best surface , but hay better than the muck and the mud. I had a lot of kids. Take them for a walk and stuff gets lost. Comes unglued, and untied. Don't over think this thing. On the night of March 1st and the morning of March 2nd people weren't looking for thumb guards.
Simple crime, simpler time!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 26, 2013 15:35:19 GMT -5
No just him, but he was taking about New Jersey, Dave Wilentz, the Lindberghs and everyone who supported the "Wolf Theory." He had another one about "little bits of wood and paper" too. Forget how that goes though. It was kinda neat.
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 26, 2013 10:29:30 GMT -5
Hey Amy,
I really like the 80 years comment. NEAT!!!
Watch "48 Hours" or "CSI" and see what happens to the eyes and brain when a person, in our case a 20 month child is strangled. When I was in college I worked for the Medical Examiner in the county where I was living. 458 autopsys as an assistant. I know what can and cannot happen to the body after death. During the act that's the key!
Badin still believes that Mitchell did not check the throat at autopsy. Other wise the finding would have been different. His call, but I like it tons! When the bag was dropped there was, I believe, damage done to the skull. Hit window sill, who knows. Bottom line "Charlie Jr." was killed in his crib. Sorry!
80 years! Damn I like that! Dave
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 26, 2013 9:55:45 GMT -5
Well Michael you got the whole gang. To state the obvious Hauptmann had many sides. There was always pride in a job well done. After a few years he just had to let some of his circle in on what he had done. Maybe not a complete overview of events, but a little peak ya know? With that he could get an in site as to (I think) who to bring along on the next "job." Money that could be spent was running low, and the "Fatherland" was on the move. I firmly believe another kidnapping was in the works by September of 1934.
I talked to Hans Kloppenburg many times. (Hours!) I got the impression that he really knew his friend, good, bad and ugly! He went completely sideways when we discussed the "Birthday/Singalong" and the Lowes ticket buy with the folded bill story. "Gott damn, Richard was with me that night. That woman Barr, she will burn in hell for that lie." I don't think that Hans was brought into the loop. If he was it was not enough to end the friendship.
Rauch and Mueller is another story!
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 25, 2013 23:33:37 GMT -5
In the summer of 1983 Cornel Plabani, Mike Badin and I were invited to the University of Delaware to talk to a criminal justice class taught by Dr. John Kelly. During Badin's talk he discussed what was missed during the Mitchell autopsy. One the most important things missed was the failure to check the baby's, his words, "windpipe." I asked how would he have done that? "Simple, you shove your finger down the throat and see if there is any obstruction. Mitchell didn't do that. I think the baby was murdered by strangulation right in his crib." That is what I believe also. Then put right in the burlap bag found at the scene. Out the window and down the ladder. The ladder breaks the bag is dropped. Head damage done then. Hole in skull was done I believe by a Jersey City cop named Harry Walsh at the location where the body was found on the Mount Rose Highway.
Sorry if this all sounds too simple but like a wise man once told me:"simpler time, simple crime."
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dave
Detective
Posts: 130
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Post by dave on Jun 25, 2013 22:01:16 GMT -5
Thanks! It was just a different feeling getting the story from a guy who lived with Hauptmann in Flemington ya know?
I agree with you that there was never a plan to hide and take care of the baby. When Hauptmann came through that window the kid was as good as dead at that moment. 20 months is a big kid. Have 5, and they do wake up when you try to move them from in front of a TV to their beds. Most of the time it goes ok. But sometimes they wake up and yell ya know? He could not risk it. No drugs in the room. Only two hands around the throat. I don't want to give Badin away here. Do the research!
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