kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 13, 2007 16:34:36 GMT -5
Here is something to fuel the fire;
NY Times March 4 1932
Letter Of Warning Sent to Lindbergh
"Union county also figured in the search when it was learned that "a furniture man" had told the police that two friends of his had threatened earlier in the year to kidnap the Lindbergh baby."
Plainfield is in Union County ;D
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 13, 2007 21:09:42 GMT -5
Kevin - do you have any names attached to this report? I may have something on this....
By the way, I've posted something 'neat' in the "Member's Section" on Feb 10th... Additionally, I have added a new link in both the LKC and Non-LKC "Links Section." I have been looking a little closer at the Hall-Mills murder because it involves some of those who would later become connected with this case. That was another good one....
|
|
|
Post by Rab on Feb 14, 2007 12:10:37 GMT -5
Some random thoughts:
- I don't know if the table board was a template or not. What I can say is that seeing the notes laid over it in person is a very compelling demonstration.
- It's important to remember that the ransom note holes line up on both axes of the table board holes. To me this seems meaningful. I've talked in the past of this contradiction of crudity and precision. On the one hand the drilled holes are rough and crude. On the other hand the spacing is exactly the same on both axes. This doesn't make sense to me from the perspective of a workman eyeing the spacing in at the factory. It implies a template for the board itself, even if the board itself was not a template.
- I think more measurement of the ransom note holes is required to confirm the spacing but my memory of Mark's previous measurements is that they are not equidistant or 1" on centre. That is part of what sets them apart. If they were 1" on centre then we wouldn't even be arguing about this because the spacing would be so common.
- While the spacing of the holes relative to each other is important, one must not forget that the notes are also consistent in terms of the spacing of the holes from the right and bottom margin of the paper. This suggests a template or some alignment mechanism. A cardboard cutout or freehand device would not be enough to ensure this consistency in my opinion. On this point, I think Kel has pointed out in the past some possible alignment of the ransom notes with what appear to be light marks (fading) on the board itself. I don't know if this possible alignment has been followed up.
- If the table board was the template then it seems to me it would have required some mechanism to line the paper up as well. Whether that might be the light fading above or something else I don't know. As Michael mentioned, there are what appear to be thumbtack or pin holes in the board. Some of these appear to line up the holes, some don't. These were pointed out to me by Mark.
- As Michael has also mentioned, the shape of the holes is not consistent from note to note. There is a marked clover shape in some but not in others and it does seem to move position from note to note. I do believe - as I think some of the QDEs theorised at the time - that batches of notes were punched at the same time. But the shape and shifting position of the shape of the holes seems to suggest that not all were punched at once. I think logically, also, if one reads the evolution of the notes, it becomes clear that there was no expectation at the outset of the requirement for so many notes.
- I think the reference of the kidnapper to "them 3 holes" is also meaningful. Clearly there was some thought there that the holes represented something unique or verifiable. And the fact that the holes line up note to note seems to support this. There is also the allusion from Condon (perhaps not the most reliable source) of the conversation with CJ about one of the gang hotfooting it with the mechanism to make the notes.
- Certainly this is one of the most intriguing aspects of the case. I remain on the fence about whether the board is genuine or not, but it certainly can't be easily dismissed. As others have said, what we really need is that serial number. That would probably put the question to bed. I think finding another Mersman table of the same design and age would also be instructive.
Rab
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 15, 2007 7:36:32 GMT -5
I still don't see the point in the use of a template. The alignment or indexing of the holes from one sheet to another is the final identifier of the authenticity of the notes, not that the unique "singnature" wasn't enough. The spacing and location of those holes is irrelevant to this purpose, all that matters is that they align from sheet to sheet. Now given their location and relation to the "singnature", I do believe the holes served a dual purpose as a layout aid, but that is another issue for debate. The main point is that once Hauptmann punched one sheet he had his template. Done deal. From that sheet or sheets he could always make more as long as he had one left. There was no need to fool around with any type of other pre- punched or drilled devices. In fact I think any such template would make the alignment and punching more difficult not to mention the danger of it's incriminating value if found by the police. I would say try and make multiple copies these notes at home with the complete "singnature" and holes. I think something will become immediately apparent to anyone who tries.
|
|
|
Post by rick for kevin on Feb 15, 2007 12:25:42 GMT -5
Kevin: I cant agree with you more: But what mastermind conceived of this complicated arrangement of holes and symbols and colors in the first place after one year of planning? Some master-mind would be a master-spy? - What other kidnap in history even had a "symbol" for a singnature?
- What purpose vis-a-vis the real deal (Charlie Jr.) is served by a complex signature?
- Who would think other "interlopers" would try and weasel in onto the rams om money? And accidentally get caught?
- It seems rather unlikely that a mastermind would come up with this level of complexity "apriori" just for the LKC? eg this arrangement of holes and symbols must have been learned and used somewhere else previously.
- CONCLUSION: this method of checking from note to note was known to the gang before hand and they did not go out and buy Mersman Tables just for the LKC--the system was in place and in use as a routine. Possibly between gang members?
|
|
mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
|
Post by mairi on Feb 15, 2007 17:36:23 GMT -5
Suppose you have two boards-same size-with three pre drilled holes. Then you use three nails-same size-or nearly-as the drilled holes. The notes being aligned between and matched up with the corners of the boards. Hammer the three nails down through. It may be conceivable that the clover nail (or whatever) was used on purpose, i.e. "especially "them holes". The circles being added for no other reason than to enhance it's uniqueness. Kevkon, I've seen some funny kind of nails with threads along the length--seems to me I've seen some which have a spiral thread somewhat like that of a screw. Do you think that would produce that clover shaped hole?
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 15, 2007 17:53:49 GMT -5
Hi Mairi I really can't say with any certainty what produced those holes. I have tried a few items, but really Joe is much more knowledgeable on this subject. I do know that whatever it was did punch as opposed to merely piecing the paper as any pointed object would do. The main point I am trying to make is why does one need a template or some type of mechanism. It is needlessly complicated and actually makes the whole procedure more laborious and difficult. Just take the nail ( blunt end) or whatever and make your holes. Lay a ruler along side if you like. I still encourage anyone interested in doing this for themselves. Go the whole distance and make the "singnature" as well on multiple sheets of paper. You don't have to be fussy, nor be slavish to the original. The important thing is to punch through multiple sheets while keeping the aligned and create an inked "singnature" on all. I think you will be surprised at what you will discover while attempting this re-enactment.
|
|
mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
|
Post by mairi on Feb 15, 2007 19:30:16 GMT -5
Thanx Kevkon~ I'll have to rub my two brain cells together and think "punch" instead of "pierce". I do like your view that a leftover note may have been used to create additional ones. I guess I was still thinking nail and couldn't quite see precise alignment. Appreciate you reply on it.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 15, 2007 20:25:22 GMT -5
I think the purpose of using it was its concealment. When more notes were needed they had to take it apart in order to get the coordinates to create the holes again. Let me try to explain my position, not to convince anyone that I am right, but rather in a way to better understand where I am coming from. First I am going to do something I never do... I am pretty sure this table was used for the "placement" of the holes on the notes. Meaning it was authentic in regard to it being utilized in some fashion to uniquely position those holes. Furthermore, for me, it's obvious there is more then one person involved in this crime and the extortion that follows. Next, let's take a look at the ladder - it was a very complex design which was indeed well thought out and worked for a myriad of circumstances. I have come to this conclusion due to Kevin's input. Something Kevin has theorized was that several species of wood was used on purpose so that in the event the ladder was discarded it would be harder to trace, in essence, pointing to a million different places. Now if the Kidnappers took some much time and consideration regarding this ladder then the same must be true about the symbol - if not moreso. This symbol directly represents their authenticity and the $50,000 ($70,000) payday. I think the reference of the kidnapper to "them 3 holes" is also meaningful. Clearly there was some thought there that the holes represented something unique or verifiable. And the fact that the holes line up note to note seems to support this. (Rab) I agree with Rab and think this best exemplifies my point above. And so this symbol, specifically the holes, qualify and identify this party absolutely. It's also incriminating isn't it? Exactly....which is why the table piece is perfect. Even if it were taken apart I don't think they would have been looking for the holes - there. See how easily they overlooked it when it was found? This "clover" hole is unique. It is consistently the same size and pattern meaning the shape of the item puncturing the hole was different then the others making the other two holes. Once you examine the real notes it becomes obvious. This hole moves after a series of notes. This is very important. It means that several notes were punched at once then another group was punched at once at another time. Why is this important? Because if Kevin was correct and an actual piece of paper (or some other object) was used then the Kidnappers wouldn't be punching notes in a series like this, rather they would simply punch one note at a time when needed. Additionally, they would line up the unique "clover" hole and use it in the same position. What appears to be going on is they "use up" their punched notes and then return to the gauge and/or template in order to create a 2nd series of notes. It also implies, as Rab says above, they didn't think they would need so many notes. So the original 2 or 3 that were punch were what they expected would be needed. They also expected them to be gone and not in their possession anymore thus eliminating the evidence and feeling safe the table wouldn't be discovered as the source. Back to the ladder.... With the totality of the circumstances that exist, it seems clear the ladder wasn't built in Hauptmann's garage. For the sake of argument let's say he built it. Let's even say he used his plane on Rail 16 and the rungs. Let's go further and say he used his nails. He kept those things didn't he? But other tools needed to make this ladder weren't found in his possession. Does anyone think he got rid of those tools after seeing everything the Police confiscated? In line with this logic remember that he didn't have the anything to punch the holes in these notes either. And believe me they looked and looked and looked. Nothing. Keohler believed the ladder was built somewhere else too, and do not forget Liz's soil research. Because of her research we are aware of an area where that ladder had been before it was in Hopewell - but why was it there? This inference being it was built there since it was designed for just one purpose. And let's not forget - no soil from Hauptmann's place. I think Kevin's position assumes the ransom note Writer was the person who punched the note. Do we know that for sure? Where were the notes punched? Were they punched and written in the same place? Assuming Hauptmann is the Writer does anyone believe he wrote them in his home? No inks were found in his desk which matched the inks on the notes....would Hauptmann discard the ink? Would he never buy such ink again? Or were these notes penned out elsewhere regardless of who wrote them? Perhaps the ladder was built where the notes were written. And if the table was used it was just too expensive a piece not to be in someone's house instead of a workshop (or hide-out). So it makes sense that someone would take it away. Hey, we're talking an Mersman table! "John" obviously isn't the guy with the template. He tells Condon it was taken away. As Rab says - Condon is a dubious source but his comment can be measured by other circumstances..... Such as - the last note doesn't have the holes. If its just a simple thing as a punched out piece of paper or other simple item as Kevin suggested - then why not? Just how the table was used I don't know. I believe Rab (or Kel) has a good working theory that the paper was lined up some how...perhaps with the fade line. I think if its lined up on top then there has to be a light source under it. It's also possible the board was placed on top of the paper and a probe with a point went through the table holes. Pin-holes are made in the paper to mark where the holes are to be punched. Then the paper is punched using belt hole punchers or things similar.
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 16, 2007 7:41:00 GMT -5
I am getting lost in the timing here. The Mersman confession was discovered by Elmer Bolard in 1948. Both he and the owner of The Watchung Furniture Store, Albert Weisman, confirm it's purchase new sometime between 1938 and 1940. The contents of the "confession" are obviously post trial LKC. So are you saying that this table hung around the Mersman factory or the furniture store for 6 yrs? Or are you saying another one like it was used as the template and this one used as a confessional sometime later?
I guess I see the odds of the fact that Haring's book, The Hand Of Hauptmann was published within walking distance of the furniture store at about the same time as the table was at that store as being more significant than 3 holes 1" on center.
I still say re-create those notes.
|
|
|
Post by rick3 on Feb 16, 2007 12:24:12 GMT -5
Here is a website that answers questions on Mersman Tables: Q>We just acquired a Mersman table that is numbered 7180 and are curious to it's value, if any. elflady, Churchton, MD 4/03/06 A>To learn more please go to ncfurnitureonline.com-they have a page where you can ask questions and they have carried Mersman furniture- Hopefully that link will help you. Mersman Tables was founded by J.B. Mersman around 1876 in Ottoville,OH. At the turn of the century, the city of Celina, OH asked Mr. Mersman to set up a furniture factory in Celina. In 1927 the company became known as Mersman Brothers Corporation. In 1963, the company was acquired by Congoleum Industries. After a series of other owners, the Mersman Factory was closed in 1990. Thank you for contacting us. To learn more about Hickory Furniture Mart please visit us at www.hickoryfurniture.com. Hickory Furniture Mart 800-462-MART 4/04/06 (end) I. I dont suppose we know the serial # of the Mersman in question?I agree fully with kevin that we should know more by now about the provenance of the table board in question after all these years? It needs be the actual table board with the sailors song at the NJSP archives that was used for the ransom notes to prove validity? II I am puzzled by the photo in Gardner which shows the table legs still attached to the board up top?? You can easily see (at the bottom of this page) that the center hole will be blocked off unless the legs are also detached. So the table need be totally disassembled to be useful? Or it was just a left over table board?
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 16, 2007 13:31:16 GMT -5
|
|
mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
|
Post by mairi on Feb 16, 2007 15:33:26 GMT -5
Am really pleased to get a look at a Mersman table. Many of you have probably been been here, but I googled in Mersman tables online and found many sites. Two I will mention are: --Common Sense Antiques on Antique Shop and the following gave such a good history rundown. www.icollector bazaar.com/qa/messages/1760 html-16k the site title being Mersman table
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 16, 2007 17:35:57 GMT -5
There's no real source for this. All we have are scrap-book type newspaper articles, certainly something to consider, but nothing I would put faith in as being fact and/or confirmation of anything.
We still call a bridge around here the "new" bridge because it was built in 1975 as opposed to the other one which was built in 1955. As I have said earlier, a Police report would have followed this information up. A check of logs, invoices, and statements would have been taken then crossed referenced and followed up. We're in the dark as far as I am concerned.
Unless someone shows me these "boards" were all drilled to the exact same measurements then its my theory it pre-dated the kidnapping. There's no chain of custody or evidence showing the date of manufacture so other then these newspaper clippings we have nothing else to go by except the photos (which experts have told me aren't enough). If this could be provided to me then I would apply it accordingly.
I suppose I see proximity such as this as happening all the time. I also consider that Haring sold very few books. What is your theory concerning how this was "hoaxed?" Does the "hoaxer" stumble upon the fact these table holes match up accidentally or do you have someone drilling a replacement piece? Are you sure these holes are exactly 1" on center and if so why didn't the Police mention this, find anything with these measurements, or give up looking?
I understand your position and would be more inclined to accept it if there wasn't evidence that groups of notes were being made at the same time. This is my major obstacle because its indicative, in my opinion, of what I've laid out above.
Anyway, your examination of this board up close and personal should assist in adding more information to debate, or in the alternative, help to finally solve it.
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 16, 2007 18:06:39 GMT -5
The link I posted a while back ( South Plainfield PD) has attributable newspaper articles on the discovery. No, its not sworn testimony but given that both the owner and the dealer are giving an estimated purchase date I think it probably is reasonable to believe those dates to be in the ball park. Are you kidding me? This is the LKC. I am not even sure 1932 was an actual year! I really hope you are bidding on that EBay Mersman ( only $31 last I looked). You know it would fit in well at the museum or the Swan!
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 17, 2007 12:09:06 GMT -5
Here's where you and I differ on this matter. My experiences with newspaper articles, even today although its not as bad, are they contain mistakes, inaccuracies, or just sometimes wrong. Numerous articles involving supposed interviews with eyewitness revealed people positively saw Hauptmann in Hopewell. For example, Lupica, the Moore Family, Kutcha, etc. The Police would read these articles then rush out to interview these people. The Police reports reveal just about in every case the newspaper reports were factually incorrect, embellished, or fabrications. Here we have a case where Reporters appear to be told this was a "hoax" by the Police right from jump-street so the story-line starts from there. BERGEN EVENING RECORD
22 November 1948
Lindbergh Kidnap Note Called Hoax
Paper found in Leg of Table Purchased 10 Years Ago
South Plainfield, Nov 22 (AP) - Investigators of a Lindbergh kidnap confession note described by State Police as probably a prank - was underway today.
The note, scribbled in German in indelible pencil, was found last night in the leg joint of an imitation Duncan Phyfe table.
Bruno Richard Hauptmann, the note declared, was innocent. the ransom money had been buried in nearby Summit and the kidnap plot originated in Hamburg, Germany, the note added.
Unsigned, the note supposedly written by a member of a kidnap gang was turned over to the South Plainfield Police by the owner of the table, Elmer Bollard of 112 Sherman Ave.
Bollard told police he bought the table in Plainfield 10 years ago. He said he took it apart of strengthen a wobbly leg and found the note under a block of wood used to reinforce the joint.
[/i][/blockquote] Here is an article taken from the site both you and Sue previously linked up: www.southplainfieldnj.com/police/history.htmAs we can see it is incorrect in its assertion a paper was found in the leg of the table. Anyway, this is why I don't trust these newspaper articles completely. Again I say they should be considered and it might be the factor which pushes one's personal position to one side or the other but there's no way I would ever give more weight then it deserves. I know...that's why I am anxious to see what observations you make once you take a look at this thing.
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 17, 2007 22:02:06 GMT -5
I don't know if we differ on this issue. I don't believe the papers and I accept the fact that they contain factual errors. However, given that the table owner and the table seller are within a couple of years in their respective dates and I see no other evidence of a`mfg date, I would tentatively accept the 1938 to 1940 range. Now if you have some evidence that contradicts this time frame, I would gladly accept it.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 18, 2007 12:17:09 GMT -5
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 19, 2007 7:46:13 GMT -5
I don't understand the "should be older". Is this not the tail wagging the dog? If, for example, I were to show you something else , something sitting at the NJSP museum right now, that aligns perfectly with the holes, would that change anything?
|
|
Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,652
Member is Online
|
Post by Joe on Feb 19, 2007 7:59:26 GMT -5
Personally, I'm lost in this discussion as it pertains to the table brace and it's relevance to the case without a better indication of provenance, a date of manufacture and a way of erasing that silly sea shanty / poem from mind. Wake me up when we get back to where the rubber meets the road, them 3 holes in the ransom notes.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 19, 2007 20:14:04 GMT -5
Kevin I am still not sure of your theory as to how this was "hoaxed." Is this connecting piece stock or has it been replaced with a piece drilled to the ransom hole specs?
We have the benefit of having the notes available to us for measurement of those holes. We are supposed to believe this "hoaxster" used a copy of Haring's (very undersold book) and somehow used these scaled down photos to perfectly find and/or recreate the holes.
The Police never did find anything to match up so if you can find something I would be interested to hear about it.
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Feb 20, 2007 7:52:50 GMT -5
Well, I now know a few things about this story relating to how the note was written and Bollard's story. But I think I will hold off until I get down to the museum.
|
|
|
Post by David J on Apr 15, 2007 20:12:59 GMT -5
It is clear and obvious that the letter is from someone connected with the kidnapping and not a hoax. To spell it out- the signature holes line up perfectly and as it was never meant to be seen or viewed ever, it's discovery by Elmer Bolard in 1948 was chance, so it was not a hoax. There was no intent to deceive as it was never sent, but rather it was found. Under the table was the hiding spot for the template- the signature of the letters, and it got found - it's that simple.
The REAL question is - why was it written with that content? and more importantly, why wasn't it destroyed? Obviously if you destroy the template, you destroy your ability to make the notes in case you want to send something out again in the future, for whatever reason. But to hide it under the table like that, and then to sell the table, well that is just stupid. But why was it written with THAT content?
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Apr 16, 2007 5:43:16 GMT -5
This is a great post and you've made some interesting points.... I get the feeling you may have an idea or two concerning the content/context so if I am right then I am all ears. I've gone over it and read much material hoping to find clues but keep coming up craps. Possibly with your (or anyones) lead I may be able to find something.
This piece "fits" although it begs to be challenged.
I keep remembering Condon saying "John" told him there wouldn't be any more symbols on the notes because one of the gang took the symbol maker away. Again, this "fits" but if this is somehow a "hoax" it would have to be a Police Officer or someone close to the investigation who did it.
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Apr 16, 2007 6:59:55 GMT -5
In what way? Do they relate in any way with the relative location on the notes? Are the hole sizes relative?
Really? Then why bother with a silly confession? Are you sure this particular table didn't have an open leaf top?
I wouldn't use that logic in the art and antique world.
|
|
|
Post by rick3 on Apr 16, 2007 11:51:13 GMT -5
How many Mersman tables in the 1930s had this identical hole pattern? Does Bollards table have to be the actual table used or could any one of hundreds been used because all holes drilled in Mersmans the 1930s match the ransom notes? Actually, that would make more sense if the tables were mass produced? I think we should know that first?
Who do we know that lives near the factory in Celina, Ohio? Any rumrunners or bootleggers nearby? Manufactured by Mersman Brothers Corporation of Celina, Ohio.
Mersman was the premier American table manufacturer in the Depression era of the 1920's and 1930's. Mersman is the single most widely found name on any furniture in America. It is estimated that nearly half of all American homes in 1932 had at least one Mersman table. They went out of business in the 1980s.
On October 24, 1927, Walter Mersman, the president of the company, requested an amendment to the company charter, and the company became known as "Mersman Brothers Corporation. During the depression of the early 1930’s, Mersman Brothers became involved in the manufacture of bedroom suites and dining room tables and later went on to Radio Cabinets. When WWII came along, the company went into war work as far as possible. They were limited because the number of wood items used was quite limited. Mersman Brothers manufactured desks for the Treasury Department, mess tables and benches for the Navy, mobile repair units for the Air Force and plywood for the Lend Lease program. Shortly before the end of the war, Mersmans got into its present line, living room tables.
Most of the employees at Mersman were German Catholics, and there is an author who once investigated the possiblity of an important clue to the Lindbergh kidnapping being hidden inside a Mersman table. Do a google search on the word "Mersman" and "Lindbergh" and you find a few articles, some of which spell Celina Ohio incorrectly as Salina.
|
|
|
Post by Giszmo on Apr 16, 2007 17:32:26 GMT -5
"there is an author who once investigated the possiblity of an important clue to the Lindbergh kidnapping being hidden inside a Mersman table. " (rick)
Who??
|
|
kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
|
Post by kevkon on Apr 16, 2007 18:21:20 GMT -5
And who has verified that the table was actually a Mersman ??
|
|
|
Post by Giszmo on Apr 16, 2007 21:57:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Apr 17, 2007 5:16:04 GMT -5
This is an excellent point. No one has to my knowledge and I think its been assumed because of the newspaper reports and its appearance. If it isn't then we've all been barking up the wrong tree, and shows how important it is to cover all the possibilities and consider all the variables before jumping to conclusions.
You definitely got me here too because, despite my constant harping about the philosophy in the previous sentence, I never once considered it wasn't a Mersman until you mentioned this wrinkle.
Gismo, I think "Policing" ourselves is good thing. Checks and balances are needed to ensure we always walk a straight line. It appears to me that Rick simply left off the link accidentally. If you look at his posts, he always puts the link to the referring source beneath the information - even going so far as throwing the LindyKidnap direct links there when the link itself is no good unless you are a Member. I don't want to speak for him but I think it was an oversight. We do have to be careful.
|
|