dena
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Post by dena on Apr 7, 2008 13:57:19 GMT -5
No, I see what you are saying. But was there really any reason to rat anybody out since I don't think any of them really got into enough trouble that would neccesitate them ratting each other out anyway? In other words, maybe if they had been on a hotseat, they might have been talkling all over the place. Condon was somewhat on hotseat various times, but he wiggled out. But as I have said before abt Condon, I think he had things being held over his head that were a motivating factor for him even to relucatantly point the finger at anybody directly. He tap danced for a long time before identifying BRH in court. With a very dramatic flourish, I might add. And when the screws were put to Violet, she killed herself (maybe). If Violet knew more this was powerful motivation to shut her up. Didn't the Whatelys attend this church too? I dont think I know enough about the church to say if my speculation about the sway Rev Birrittella held over his "congregation" is absolutely correct. However, I dont think that if Rev B had some involvement it means that his followers were all conspirators. I dont think that is how it would have played out at all in fact. I think it would have been much more subtle than that. I think it would have been so subtle that perhaps people would not have realized the part they had even played until it was even over. Such as Violet innocently telling of the change of plans for the family to stay in Hopewell. People get sucked into the most insidious activity all the time and don't realize their fooolishness until the hindsight part has kicked in. But its just a theory based on the Rev Birrittella's exploititation of others by abusing his power as a "reverend". And this "theory" & $5.00 bucks will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. But you have to admit it pretty...interesting to say the least that Rev B sent Telegram to Hopewell saying to contact him in Harlem if they wanted the boy back. At his church where the Morrow/Lindbergh servants, as well as Condon, purportedly attended.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Apr 7, 2008 14:26:41 GMT -5
I know most of these people were investigated, in some cases multiple times. Condon was in the hot seat and continued to be. There would have to be a trail of some kind.
Purportedly, hmmm. I have heard this mentioned a few times, though usually in terms of them being in the vicinity of that "church". Is this known to be true? Or is it complete conjecture? Maybe someone who knows more than I can supply a definitive answer. I do know the BOI looked into it and I know they probably would have liked nothing better than to "scoop" the other LE agencies. That's one of the problems with this case, there are a lot of purportedlys and they sometimes become woven into the truth. It's frustrating when you start looking at these things only to find out it was based on a rumor or bad report. I am sure Michael probably has a mountain of paper on this so I would defer to him. I still think that if any of these people were involved there would be some sign of enrichment and that is something that can be investigated even today.
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dena
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Post by dena on Apr 7, 2008 15:19:50 GMT -5
Well, thats my big stumbling block too. What was true & what was not. What was conjecture, fact, etc. Thats why I really need to know if it was with absdolute certainty that the servants attended the church, for starters. As far as enrichment, I should think there could still be sign of this today too. Depending upon how they spent the money of course too. It appears as far as I have been able to track that the Birittellas stayed in NY. Peter Birrittella's brother (one suspected of being another cab driver who perhaps went to Condon house) owned bakery in Yonkers still in business today, btw. Even still owned by Birrittella's. But of course one how would one even approach something like this. "Excuse me, I think your recent ancestors may possibly have been involved in the Lindbergh case. And maybe your uncle was a perverted preacher. And btw,would you care to share any old family documention with me?" I'm sure they would just be so receptive. lol But if they bought property there would still be records of this. Unfortunately ACRIS only goes back a limited number of years. Not back to 1930's or 40's. Darn it. Be interesting to see if they invested any money in real; estate. Of course, they may have held onto any money for years too. Wish I could get a hold of 1940 census (not yet available as far as I have been able to tell).This could tell us a lot about what happened to the Birrittellas. I wonder if Peter Birrittella & Mary Cerrito stayed married. I think even if they divorced she may have kept his name though. AKKKKKK I want to get to the archives so bad it aches. lol I love reading old papers. Nothing I love doing more. Could literally sit for probably weeks upon end just perusing old documents. Even if they appear meaningless.
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Post by Michael on Apr 7, 2008 15:21:20 GMT -5
We really don't know who brought them in. They called down to Hopewell but it seems someone put them up to it. And while they did seem to know things they shouldn't have, the Condon reference is dubious if you ask me because it comes from a later publication and I haven't found anything to support it in the source material.
I haven't found anything that I trust. Some letters here and there and then its in that book about HRO.
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dena
Detective
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Post by dena on Apr 7, 2008 15:41:11 GMT -5
Yes, maybe Mary Cerrita just trying to est some credibility as a great "psychic".
But wasn't it incredibly risky to telegraph AML with these words?
"COMMUNICATE WITH ME AT ONE REGARDING YOUR BOYS WHEREABOUTS".
I should think that could have really backfired on Birrittella and have been construed (rightfully so) as a claim that the boy was in the Birrittellas possession.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Apr 7, 2008 17:06:48 GMT -5
Michael, this what I mean by frustrating. I thought it was a fact that Rosner specifically picked the Birrittella message? I think both Lloyd and the FBI files say that the message was picked out of a stack of others.
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Post by Michael on Apr 7, 2008 19:09:28 GMT -5
Lloyd's book is correct. I was in error when I said they called down to Highfields. However, I believe it was ultimately Breck's idea....also, other people were called back as well. I should look up the exact order of events and get back to you.
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dena
Detective
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Post by dena on Apr 7, 2008 20:12:23 GMT -5
I've got HRO book on my desk as I type. I'll see what I can find in here about Cerrita/Birrittella. I know this doesn't neccessasrily make it correct but it still has some interesting info. Let me know if anyone needs me to look anything up for them in here.
Dena
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Post by rick3 on Apr 10, 2008 14:45:16 GMT -5
The Molten Image "Science of Reason" Chapter 2 "If there remains a shred of doubt in your mind that there is an occult link between Freemasonry, the Kabbalah, and Judaism, let me quote from page 15 of “THE Kabbalah” by Adolphe Franck, where it shows the Jewish TALMED is not “ancient” but like the rest of this “science of religion” to subdue the world, is only about three hundred hears old: “These commentaries and new traditions, which multi- plied prodigiously for more than three hundred years, were finally collected under the name of Gemara-”. The name of the second half of the Talmud, which is a commentary on the first part or Mishna. Let us explore briefly the mythological foundations of Jewish Occultism. During the 18th century, when the ENCYCLO- PEDISTS or ENLIGHTNMENT, ILLUMINATI or BUDDHAS, Enlightened Ones) highest Degree of Freemasonry, created the French En- cyclopedia ou Dictionnaire Reasonne des Sciences, des Arts et des Métiers (Encyclopedia or Dictionary of Reason of the 21. Sciences, or the Arts and of the Crafts, as in Witchcraft, which is the “Craft” of Freemasonry) it was an on-going work from l751 till l772 and extremely anti-ecclesiastic and con- troversial; with it was the creation of Ancient History ac- complished by and based on myths of ancient Greece and Rome. The myths, themselves, were also a creation of the Enlightenment movement (see your encyclopedia for “Enlightenment Age Of“). That Ancient History could not be attested too was witnessed by H.G. Wells in l920: “The world of Plato, Isoc-rates, and Aristotle, had practically no historical perspective at all; there had not been such a thing as history in the world… until the last couple of centuries… For most men the world was still flat and limitless… Nobody knew anything of the origins of civilization.” (THE OUTLINES OF HISTORY vol. 2, p. 408 4th Edit.) " themoltenimage.com/page4.htmlII. "The yod in Jehovah is one of those things which eye hath not seen, but which has been concealed from all mankind. Its essence and matter are incomprehensible; it is not lawful to even meditate upon it. Man may lawfully resolve his thoughts from one end of the heavens to the other, but he cannot approach the inaccessible light, that primative existance, contained in the letter yod. and indeed the masters call the letter thought or idea and set no boundaries on its efficacy. It was this letter, flowing from the primitive light, gave being to emanations. it wearied itself by the way, but assumed a new vigor in the sense of the letter HE, which becomes the second letter of the ineffible name. (eg Tetragramaton}" "In symbolic Masonry, the yod has been replaced by the letter G. But in the high degrees, it has been retained, and within any triangle, thus constitutes the symbol of the Deity." [Encyclopedia of Freemasonry--Mackey 33 degree/ page 866]
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Post by Michael on Apr 14, 2008 5:59:05 GMT -5
I found out the real meaning of those who used it. This seemed to be done by two grafts and somewhere that mixture -- The meaning of the three is a deviation or change from the original triangle, but that is not very sacred. Their secret in that was from the original three leg. While we are walking we take ordinarily a step roughly about 30 in. and these steps are the same as ordinary steps, but the third one is this one, they go in that direction, just as the Indian High Sign has four leg; two up and two down. The meaning of the symbol. In this one is good luck and the Indian stating he can run faster then the white man because he has four legs. ( Condon Bronx Grand Jury Testimony 5-20-32)[/blockquote] In case you are wondering...the Indian High Sign Condon is referring to is this: www.swagatamindia.com/spatial_energy/indian_luck_symbols.htm
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Post by rmc1971 on Apr 14, 2008 6:14:03 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Apr 14, 2008 18:56:16 GMT -5
I just find it interesting the old duck brought this symbol into his testimony. I think sometimes he worked in things which amounted to a type of Freudian Slip. In this instance it may not be the case but it certainly shows that he had personal knowledge in this area.
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Post by rick3 on Jun 3, 2008 16:46:18 GMT -5
1. Jafsie Condon also inadvertently "squared the circle" with a cross when chatting with BRH......he was trying to decide whether BRH was really CJ? [baby, Woodlawn, money, ??] www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/tob/tob04.htm2. "As they used no vowels in writing, all that was ever seen were four consonants, J H V H, the Tetragrammation or four lettered name of God which we call Jehovah. From the letters there was no clue to the pronunciation. No one could understand them any more than we could know that Mr. stands for Mister and Dr. stands for Doctor unless someone told us so. According to tradition, the great catastrophe of the Babylonian captivity was that, through the death of the high priest without a successor, the name was lost. “At the end of that captivity priests and scribes began a search for the lost name which has continued without avail for two and one-half millenniums.” The four consonants they had, but it is doubtful if anyone has been able to supply the sound of the vowels. It is believed that this four-lettered name of God is the Lost Word of Masonry today.Like everything else in our science, it is a symbol. It is the consummation of all Masonic symbolism because it stands for the Divine truth. Brotherly love and relief are but the means to an end; the final design of our Institution is its third principle tenet, the imperial truth. In some aspects truth seems relative, because it is not complete, but only partial. Now we see through a glass darkly, but the ultimates of truth are immutable and eternal, the Fatherhood of God and the immortality of the soul, “Down to this deep foundation Masonry digs for a basis of its Temple and finds an everlasting rock.” THE LEGEND OF THE LOST WORD SHORT TALK BULLETIN - Vol.VI May, 1928 No.5
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 3, 2008 20:03:47 GMT -5
Fascinating, Rick, most fascinating! They must mean something, as you say, because they are recurring, Others might say they didn't have anything with the crime - but I say very interesting!
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Post by rick3 on Jun 5, 2008 5:26:54 GMT -5
Jack--thanks for your support. I think there is certain syncronicity between the two threads being considered now:
1. Its clearly an inside job....
2. ....the insider(s) place the symbol-nursery note on the inner window ledge to suggest/imply its use as an exit.
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Post by Michael on Jun 5, 2008 6:23:35 GMT -5
Rick,
It's my position that there was inside help. Kevin does make a case to the contrary so I suppose it depends on which way you feel more strongly about what the situation shows.
The other point you make about the note. I agree. I think the natural place for it was the crib. Unless of course "John" really did tell Condon it was left there....meaning someone in the house moved it to the window. Which would then be another piece of evidence to support an inside job. But if CJ didn't tell Condon that then its Condon lying again. And so once again I'd have to ask why Condon was lying about an important material fact.
I do recall Kevin, once again, making a case for an alternative explanation about the note placement. I am having a hard time recalling the exact details so maybe he can jump in and refresh my memory.
I do know from experience that once your mind sees something so clearly that its hard to see anything else. That's why its so important to have these message boards so that all explanations can be explored.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 5, 2008 15:15:22 GMT -5
Rick: Ihave always thought that the symbol(s) would have meant something to CAL. Note that they are obviously on the notes, but that also the note-writer several times draws attention to them, indicating much importance. The spaced holes is interesting because it's known that the WWI German army used perforations based on an example given to officers which authenticated the validity of battle messages (pre most radio, of course). Seems you've done a great job with what you've come up with, and well looking into morely. The German/SS connection is extremely interesting - Hitler always told his subordinants what he wanted accomplished, and let them figure it out. This led to some times that he is certainly famous for, such as a General informing him that Minsk was lost, and Hitler responding with "I told you to hold it," and woe to the message bearer, or accountable officer. Of course if he liked people, such as Rommel or Goehring, he would kinda dust failure under the rug. He didn't particularly like Himmler - It was Himmler's tenacity which made him sucessful, and the fact that Himmler had been a Nazi workaholic for an awfully long time. So it's very possible to my mind, that rogue SS could have been involved with TLC, and without even AH's knowledge. The Nazi connection looks good because there is evidence of it, and because every other person you bump into in the case is a German. My Father told me once (and he was a barnstormer similar to CAL - an early days wingwalker and flier - they called them that because they used to fly through barns - my Dad told me he did it all the time - I said GAWD!) about TLC, that Hauptmann probably had something to do with it, but that "he'd never tell." I believe he was thinking German thought. CYA - hope you come up with more - I'll be looking too, Jack
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Post by rick3 on Jun 5, 2008 15:32:03 GMT -5
Michael--maybe the ransom note got missplaced when insider(s): he/she/they were so busy scrubbing all the fingerprints from the Nursery? Even the ones put in place when the kidnapping was first discovered? But now the road uphill gets steeper--which of our insiders would have prior knowledge or any connection whatsoever to the Symbol or its creators?
Jack--maybe its just too pat or simplistic to assume that those are SS? And why would CAL fall in love with the Nazi regime in Berlin if they thought that agent of Der Fueher ripped off his first borne? So that particular line of inquiry is barred to me? However, if the insider(s) choose this occult Symbol to send some message to all those on the outside--well that has a certain resonance with my current pursuits.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Jun 5, 2008 16:12:28 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an insider? The kidnapper supposedly was already prepared to carry the kid down the ladder and to the car, then drive him somewhere. Are we to believe he couldn't handle getting the child out of the crib? Is this insider able to control the movements of everyone in the house?
Why over think the note placement? Isn't the sill the logical place if one is on a ladder?
Why does the symbol have to mean anything other than to it's creator and as a unique identifier? What's the point if no one can understand it and if someone does what's the difference?
How does one "scrub" an entire Nursery to eliminate latents? Another , what's the point? Not to mention the sheer magnitude of such a task with so many surfaces. Do you think Kelly powdered every square inch?
Jack, Is it nessisery to make a word's affair out off it? ( Also you might want to check out the time line on the Schutzstaffel symbol)
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 5, 2008 16:15:27 GMT -5
Rick: I don't think an SS connection is too simplistic at all. What if the child was a warning, and next was Anne and next his Mother and next was him? What if they were saying "we can get your son, or whoever we wany to get, so play ball or byebye? And what if they're saying - we're smarter than you or the police, so if you make matters worse by involving the police - so will we. That certainly is what actually happened. Lindbergh layed off from the police, and perhaps he was left more alone because of it. Remember, not long afterward he became a strong supporter on Nazi Germany - why? They align CAL with Henry Ford who showed strong antisemetic inclinations as well as against homosexuals, gypsys, (slackers - their word), etc., but Lindbergh never did, even after he was connected to them and was on an isolationast bandwagon - the Jewish, and other prejudice questions never came up. The young Nazi party of 1932 would have certainly wanted a strong world famous person to support it and to promote it (perhaps only in Himmler's mind) and they certainly got it in Charles. Himmler was very into occult - though it's semi-overrated, because he later became more into power. Regarding the ransom note, to my mind (which is inside and outside job) the outsider left the note on the sill (because he never entered the house - just was on the ladder at the window), and had no idea what the insider did with it, so CJ in the cemetary simply assumed it got placed into the crib - according to plan. The insider failed to move the note (due to frazzle) so it stayed on the sill.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 6, 2008 9:10:47 GMT -5
For Rick - such good job by the way: To answer your question(ss), they can be addressed by what is known about the crime and logic. "Why does there have to be an insider?" This crime looks very simple on paper, as we see it, and luckily for someone it worked that way, but consider how hard it would be to actually accomplish alone. For the first thing noise is a major factor. Putting a ladder against a house in itself is an unusual sound, and remember supposedly there were only a few people in the house minding their own things. Climbing a ladder makes noise - don't know if you've ever done it, but take it from me the ladder settles due to weight and scrapes, another unusual sound. Opening the window creates a sound, a pretty big one with the wind outside that nite, and an ongoing sound because of the wind. Entering the window certainly creates lots of sounds for the people below and nearby. Walking in the nursery creates sounds as well as turning on a flashlight and even dropping a note - remember, this is probably a very quiet house, no children awake, no rockers (?), etc. How would an outsider know that the child would not be awakened by the already sounds, and be abled to be picked from his crib and either killed or bagged, again soundlessly, to be taken by the same route out, and again be unheard. Frankly it's absurd. But it's certainly bought by many. Noise alone says that there WAS an insider, and we havn't even mentioned the correct window, correct timing, wiping, placement, etc. "Why overthink the note placement?" I went over that earlier if you'll read back - if you can't find it let me know. "Why does the symbol have to mean anything other than to it's creator and as (to?) it's unique identifier?" Very good question. The creator of the notes could have simply left ZZZ on the bottom and identified himself quite adequately. BUT HE DIDN'T. So stop jiveing facts. The signature had to have been a message which we don't understand yet, but, as of rail 16 I am confident that Rick will figure it out. "How does one scrub an entire nursery to eliminate latents?" One doesn't have to. The room had been previously and constantly "scrubbed" by Anne and again by Betty (because of the sick child) so accompany that with the incompetancy (though I wouldn't say so - others did) of Kelly, it showed lots of prints, just not nice ones. Kelly is another guy that you people rile - look who you've jumped on as inadequate in your minds - Kelly (since we're talking about him) and Bornmann, and Schwartzkopf, and Walsh and to some degree Finn, and Hoffman - who do you think you are to step on exemplary people like that! This is kind of a time consuming thing if you really want to get into it - kudos to Michael for hanging! But I find that the more I come up with reasonablness, the more it is quickly defeated by ridiculous - noting my spelling errors - go jump - I'll help you - and I can.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 6, 2008 9:27:23 GMT -5
For Kevkon: Ever heard of la aggrimente? Unfortunately Dave likes you. Jack
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Post by rick3 on Jun 6, 2008 9:38:49 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an insider?- the ladder was too flimsy and too short (window too high up)
- the ladder was a blind--left to imply "climbing in window"
- there was no need for the chisel--blind clue
- the ladder broke on the way up its maiden voyage
- no evidence of any breakin--shutters and window left open
- no mud on the window sills or trunk--only window top below
- the window sill plus trunk too wide 3 feet/ not moved
- toys, beer stein not knocked over
- little or no mud on carpet or crib--its muddy outside
- ransom note pristine--no mud or rain or fingerprints on envelope
- Circ de Sole exit necessary over trunk with a baby--impossible
- Look Mom no hands--reach back and place note on sill? Whoops!
- Only possibility was Charlie Jr. handed to perp on ladder!
- the dog didnt bark--Ellis H. Parker
- Ref. Who Bungled the Lindgergh Case--Al Dunlap Feb 1933
Why over think the note placement? Because CJ or JFC lied about it? Why does the symbol have to mean anything other than to it's creator and as a unique identifier? Because it is so complicated and has iconic, esoteric and inherant meaning about Father Sun cojoining with Mother Moon to beget "the red son"...Alchemy and Mysticism. Someone like Mary Cerrita must have recognized it immediately? How does one "scrub" an entire Nursery to eliminate latents? Hey, Im not the insider. Maybe they thought it would give them away so they didnt want to be caught or implicated in the snatch? If Charlie left at 8pm, that gives 2 hours to wipe up?
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 6, 2008 10:19:43 GMT -5
For Rick: We are 100% on the same page. I havn't spent much time on your post yet, but did you know that CALIII actually had a protector dog, don't remember his name, but that he was left at the other residence that weekend at Lindbergh's orders. Otherwise that puppy would have been under CALIII's bed, and who (?) would know that he wasn't around? I think you're off on the note placement and perhaps Jafsie (do you think he was an accomplace?) but lets work together on SOLVING THIS PERSIPIENT CRIME! Do you think Mary Cerrita saw it (the signature)? She was working with Breckenridge at the time - did he show it to her? You have done more here in a few weeks than investigators have accomplished (not to say they havn't tried) in 75 years, Rick. Just from me, Jack, thanks.
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Post by rick3 on Jun 6, 2008 15:41:07 GMT -5
For Rick: We are 100% on the same page. I havn't spent much time on your post yet, but did you know that CALIII actually had a protector dog, don't remember his name, but that he was left at the other residence that weekend at Lindbergh's orders. Otherwise that puppy would have been under CALIII's bed, and who (?) would know that he wasn't around? I think you're off on the note placement and perhaps Jafsie (do you think he was an accomplace?) but lets work together on SOLVING THIS PERSIPIENT CRIME! Do you think Mary Cerrita saw it (the signature)? She was working with Breckenridge at the time - did he show it to her? Jack--well we will just have to take it one step at a time: Do you remember all those movies and photos of charlie jr in summer 1931? At one time there were 2 black dogs and 2 white dogs. The photo Bob Aldinger is always referring to of Charlie up at Maine has them all in the Photo--House of Lead, Gold by AML. Where Charlie is standing on a bench. Anyways, Sue75 and I figured out also that possibly one of the other dogs was taken to the Vets in Princeton the nite of March 1st as well? A "sick sealingham"? No good explanation ever given for that either? Gardner said it stayed at Next Day by accident? Do you believe that? Opps, another coincidence? Rosner took the Nursery note to NYC pretty fast--Wed or Thurs and showed it to every Tom Dick and Mobster? It could have worked its way over to The Divine Temple that ways or maybe it even originated there? Mary kept taking about the "Light" in her seance which is a good connection. Maybe she and Peter were hired for the job? Michael suspects that the whole bunch of them were hired....Italians, lookouts, scissor grinders, cabbies etc. Clearly, we need to nail an insider to the ransom note Symbol. Have a nice weekend/
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Jun 6, 2008 15:49:47 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an insider?- the ladder was too flimsy and too short (window too high up)
It was neither.
- the ladder was a blind--left to imply "climbing in window"
Won't wash. Too much work and thought for a "prop".
- there was no need for the chisel--blind clue
How do you know this? How could anyone know what tools were brought?
- the ladder broke on the way up its maiden voyage
So now it's not a "prop"? How did the "insider" hand out the child?
- no evidence of any breakin--shutters and window left open
You mean that the note, missing child, footprints, and ladder aren't proof?? If Betty and Anne had locked the window would it have changed anything other than it would have been broken?
- no mud on the window sills or trunk--only window top below
What about the Nursery floor?
- the window sill plus trunk too wide 3 feet/ not moved
Too wide for what? Are you saying someone can't negotiate over a suitcase?
- toys, beer stein not knocked over
Isn't that proof of a break in?
- little or no mud on carpet or crib--its muddy outside
So how much mud would satisfy everyone? How much mud did the police track in later that night?
- ransom note pristine--no mud or rain or fingerprints on envelope
Why should there be?
- Circ de Sole exit necessary over trunk with a baby--impossible
Says who? have you tried this?
- Look Mom no hands--reach back and place note on sill? Whoops!
I think the note is light enough to be one handed.
- Only possibility was Charlie Jr. handed to perp on ladder!
How does one arrive at this conclusion, especially with the items above? it would be harder to hand a child out and over the suitcase and sill than to just carry him out.
- the dog didnt bark--Ellis H. Parker
Sometimes they don't. It happens.
- Ref. Who Bungled the Lindgergh Case--Al Dunlap Feb 1933
Why over think the note placement? Because CJ or JFC lied about it? I don't understand this, Rick. It seems to me that you are over thinking it when you propose it's placement is an attempt to focus everyone on the window.
Why does the symbol have to mean anything other than to it's creator and as a unique identifier? Because it is so complicated and has iconic, esoteric and inherant meaning about Father Sun cojoining with Mother Moon to beget "the red son"...Alchemy and Mysticism. Someone like Mary Cerrita must have recognized it immediately? She's a cheap con artist and anyway what's that got to do with all this mystical symbolizing? How complicated is this symbol? The ladder is ten times more complicated and it gets called "flimsy" and relegated to the status of a "prop".
How does one "scrub" an entire Nursery to eliminate latents? Hey, Im not the insider. Maybe they thought it would give them away so they didnt want to be caught or implicated in the snatch? If Charlie left at 8pm, that gives 2 hours to wipe up? Who is "they"? If there is an insider and no intruder as you assert, then why remove prints that everyone expects to be there? What sense does this make?
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jun 6, 2008 20:14:23 GMT -5
For Rick: Good post! I can just imagine the big van headed to Hopewell to do the snatch, and "brained" Hauptmann checking to make sure everyone was along, "have ve got da scissors grinder? How about da tuba player for da joyous trip back?" The dog's name was Scium, and according to Gardiner he was left behind because Lindbergh didn't want to wait for him while he was romping in the woods. Doesn't sound particularly correct but.........?? This is really just an unusual fact - fodder for the Lindbergh conspiratorialista that they havn't much used. The real issues keep getting sidetracked by so many little ones. For example, in your post above, you say to support inside help, "toys, beer stein not knocked over," and the disclaimer says, "isn't that proof of a break-in?" Is that response supposed to make sense - to anyone? I enjoy your posts Rick, and see from looking around you've got a variety of interests about the case. The church connection which we both have expressed interest in is, if true, pretty intriguing. I personally don't see that there was enough time for the first note to get around and be copied before the second note, but, and this is along the same vein, Mary C. predicted unknown things to Breckenridge priorly to that, and before the third note. If she just wanted attention she was rowing up the wrong creek, but if she wanted to help solve the crime she was doing things correctly. So my guess is she was a sincere person who happened into some junk, and knew something, and was trying to spill some while not getting her toe into a wringer. She may well have feared for her life at that time - it would be interesting to know her full story. I'd like to explore this some - long while since I've read about Mary Cerrita, and also explore the dark strokes you mentioned on the notes. SS was much into runics - Dave has (I think) an SS ring which belonged to his uncle who was Freikorps from Holland, and that ring - I've seen pictures of it - has runic symbols all around it. Dutch Freikorps was the toughest unit from all of WWII - they maintained when enlisted that they'd fight only Communists, so survived the Russian Front.
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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Post by kevkon on Jun 7, 2008 7:44:51 GMT -5
The real issues are the little ones, Jack. That's how crime detection works. Successful detection demands attention to detail. Starting out with a theory and making evidence fit ( or just plain ignoring it) is anathema to the truth.
It would to anyone who looked at where the stein is located and where the toy was found. Interesting that you chose to ignore the other 13 points of contention.
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jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
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Post by jack7 on Jun 7, 2008 9:27:38 GMT -5
Jack goes to the dictionary to look up "anathema" - found it - right under "anahole."
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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Post by kevkon on Jun 7, 2008 13:14:22 GMT -5
Frustrating, isn't it? That's what happens when you make claims you can't back up or defend.
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