Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,650
|
Post by Joe on May 12, 2017 11:13:38 GMT -5
Regardless of anyone here being an "expert" (whatever that is) or not, Bookrefuge was a welcome addition to this board, not only for the quality of factual research he put in, but also the clear and detailed way he presented his findings. It's really a shame he doesn't post here anymore because when he did, this board seemed held to a higher standard of accountability. It's clear for many reasons that the child had no grave medical condition(s).
Hauptmann had over $14,000 of red hot, gold note ransom money in his garage that he couldn't freely pass, and probably no one to launder it for him. He would have been painfully aware of the press coverage each recovered bill was getting early in 1934. When Finn asked the papers to muzzle any news of recovered ransom bills going forward, Hauptmann began actively passing them again, which is when he was caught. That small amount of pharmaceutical grade ether in his garage doesn't make any sense other than for recreational or anaesthetizing purposes.
There's no question he should have been more aware of the potential dangers towards the 7-month-old fetus Anne was bearing. I'm wondering if any doctors were consulted prior to the flight and what they would have said in 1930. That would be a no-brainer today.
From Hauptmann's self-acknowledged writing and notably from his many memorandum books, it's clear he wrote in both formal and informal styles. And there was significant variation within his less formal style. The most damning Hauptmann writing I've seen to date is in the 2-page mini-autobiography he addressed to his lawyer at the time, James Fawcett.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on May 12, 2017 12:58:15 GMT -5
Regardless of anyone here being an "expert" (whatever that is) or not, Bookrefuge was a welcome addition to this board, not only for the quality of factual research he put in, but also the clear and detailed way he presented his findings. It's really a shame he doesn't post here anymore because when he did, this board seemed held to a higher standard of accountability. It's clear for many reasons that the child had no grave medical condition(s). Bookrefuge was/is a welcomed member. I'm not sure what you mean by "expert" but my post you cited refers to someone being a Doctor. I've consulted some, but that doesn't make me one. And as a result I cannot diagnose any condition. Heck, there are a million causes for a rash to exist for God's sake. I have no idea what the "many reasons that the child had no grave medical conditions" could be but that certainly isn't something I'd be comfortable saying. Hauptmann had over $14,000 of red hot, gold note ransom money in his garage that he couldn't freely pass, and probably no one to launder it for him. He would have been painfully aware of the press coverage each recovered bill was getting early in 1934. When Finn asked the papers to muzzle any news of recovered ransom bills going forward, Hauptmann began actively passing them again, which is when he was caught. That small amount of pharmaceutical grade ether in his garage doesn't make any sense other than for recreational or anaesthetizing purposes. So who passed the $20 ransom gold not discovered at the Grand Union Grocery Store discovered on 12/18/34? Next, suppose Hauptmann simply used the money in his bank account then? Didn't he have $2,578.00 in Central Savings along with $260 in Manhattan Savings accounts? I believe he also have almost 9K in stocks and $7500 in mortgages. Double check me. The whole reason Gartner wanted gold notes was because he was going to Europe and would get more for them in the exchange there. The ether find means what? Ether could be used to kill weeds - we know by Rauch that Hauptmann like to fool with the garden. It could be used as a calibrating fluid. It could be used to clean skin. It could be used to clean clothes, or other items. It could be used as a solvent for grease, fats, waxes or esters. It could be used to constitute paints or varnishes. It could be used as a drug. It could be used to make other drugs. It could be used to purify gasoline. Or it could be used as an anesthetic. So, how many ounces does it take to knock out an infant? A child? The bottle in question was 3 ounces. When found, it had only 2 ounces left. And so who was the other kidnapping and how much ransom did he get? Since we know it was purchased very near the month of January '34 what happened to the other ounce if it's intended purpose was to kidnap "another" child? From Hauptmann's self-acknowledged writing and notably from his many memorandum books, it's clear he wrote in both formal and informal styles. And there was significant variation within his less formal style. The most damning Hauptmann writing I've seen to date is in the 2-page mini-autobiography he addressed to his lawyer at the time, James Fawcett. So he had two styles of writing AND a disguise he could remember? It's strange that none of the Experts realized this.
|
|
|
Post by hurtelable on May 12, 2017 17:23:16 GMT -5
Puh-leeze. Anyone of the opinion that nothing has happened of any significance since 1935 must be hibernating. There is a stunning amount of material about the case that has been made public for the first time since Hauptmann's conviction and sentencing, continuing decades later and into the present day. That's why Lloyd Gardner called it "The Case that Never Dies."
|
|
|
Post by kate1 on May 12, 2017 18:48:10 GMT -5
What explanation was given for Hauptmann using an attic piece of wood for the ladder?
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on May 13, 2017 0:37:41 GMT -5
It was determined that he didn't need a board to finish the ladder and climb up into his attic and cut one off. As you probably know, rail 16 among other boards was removed by electricians to install wiring and left as "junk wood" so to speak in Hauptmann's landlord's basement.
Ether is almost never used other than as an anesthetic. I can't imagine Richard claiming to the pharmacist that he was a dentist in order to get ether that he was planning to use as paint thinner. It was even in 1934 controlled by pharmacies because it was and is dangerous. There are much cheaper and safer ways to thin paint.
He may have been testing that missing ounce of ether on captured cats and dogs to see how much it took. Anna said, "boy Richard, that chow mein is really different - what is that meat? - kinda like chicken."
Name one "stunning amount of material" Hurtelable.
|
|
|
Post by wolfman666 on May 13, 2017 8:53:20 GMT -5
hi jack, in my old research the place where the either came from was near hauptmans apt, on the same road as the lumberyard he went to
|
|
|
Post by hurtelable on May 13, 2017 13:49:18 GMT -5
Just for starters, take the Bolliard table brace discovered in 1948, and containing what seems like a confession to the Lindbergh kidnapping written in German. It was also discovered to have its screw holes spaced in accordance with the holes found in the "singnature" of the ransom notes, implying that the table brace could have been used as a template from which to create the "singnature." So whoever owned that table c. 1932 would have almost been certain to have been at least a participant in the purported kidnapping! (See Lloyd Gardner's "The Case That Never Dies," paperback edition, p. 413-414.)
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on May 13, 2017 14:26:22 GMT -5
Well, that's true, but does it lead to anyone? It might have been Hauptmann's table which he and Anna ate their kitty chow-mein upon.
Finally, it's just like the Faulkner notion and letters. More gab.
Hey Steve - ya, the ether was well documented. To say he or Fisch were using it to go to sleep or clean mirrors or something is really beyond reality and misleading, like the statements about some books - mostly one book. How stupid do people think we all are? I guess we're pretty stupid if we keep buying this junk!
Hauptmann did it alone until someone comes up with a name, statistics and logical circumstances which involve another person in the crime. Notions like implying that Charles Lindbergh was trying to clean up the U.S.A. gene pool by starting at home are really worse than stupid because they're wrongly (with absolutely no evidence) implicating families that have certainly had their share of problems. Lindbergh's workings with Dr. Carrel were scientific rather than theoretical which improvement of species through forced selection and elimination really is. Although, few people are aware of it, but currently there is statistically almost no mental illness in Germany at this and recent time.
|
|
|
Post by hurtelable on May 14, 2017 6:38:58 GMT -5
I know i'm getting away from the subject of the LKC, but I can't buy that "almost no mental illness in Germany today" statement. Although I've never been to Germany, I'd bet that there is ample need for mental health professionals there and they do produce them through their higher educational institutions.
I hope you're not trying to imply that the Nazis' eugenically-inspired murdering and torturing of "mental defectives" had a beneficial effect on improving subsequent generations of German people.
If there were almost no mental illness in Germany today, as you suggest, the flooding of the country with Muslims from the Middle East would certainly cause an increase in it among the indigenous population.
|
|
|
Post by kate1 on May 14, 2017 7:37:36 GMT -5
There was no mental illness in the old Soviet Union either
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on May 14, 2017 13:04:17 GMT -5
Thanks, Kate1. You're I'm sure right.
I should have said "people don't want to admit it." That is one statistic (mental illness in Germany - of German people, not immigrants) that probably shocked me more than anything I've ever read. Yes, the Nazi approach of weeding out the mentally=ill worked, and apparently the similar Stalin approach worked as well.
So, before you gab about it everyone - look it up.
The famous table has to be a hoax. I'm not sure how much it has been studied by authorities but it should be studied more. Anyone could have accomplished it themselves - just find that hole spacing pattern and come up with a clever tie-in. Kevin always said the most likely pattern for the notes would be a belt and a person could probably find a belt brand today that consistently had that spacing and existed in 1930. Other ideas would be a belt-like bridle or spacers for adjustable shelves. An easier method of doing the holes would of course be very desirable to the kidnapper than taking the table apart when he needed notes. Question is why he apparently made so many notes to begin with. I know, he probably made a table-hole pattern so he didn't have to take it apart, yada yada. The many notes are an indication of inexperience in kidnapping, so they're just another arrow-clue pointing towards Hauptmann, like a lot of other arrow-clues.
The table has a clear linking to the NJSP museum so that outfit should be the start of an investigation. Yellow tape freeze - nobody in or out = just like down at first federal when they catch the druggie they just made a teller because of social pressure.
|
|
|
Post by wolfman666 on May 15, 2017 8:50:49 GMT -5
that table is a hoax
|
|
|
Post by kate1 on May 15, 2017 11:31:08 GMT -5
Don't know why the table should be ruled out. Mark F. Thought the holes match precisely with the ransom notes.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on May 15, 2017 20:54:42 GMT -5
That's what we're talking about. Somebody found the hole pattern was the same for the support of the Mersmer table, and hoaxed it as being connected to the kidnapping. Now, of course that table (if it's really old enough) or another same table could have been the original pattern for the holes, but more likely it's a hoax.
|
|
|
Post by kate1 on May 16, 2017 5:09:28 GMT -5
It would have had to have been someone who had hands on access to the at least one of the notes. Wonder if the handwriting was ever compared to the letter Hoffman received after Hauptmann's conviction or even the ransome notes. Also if the message could have in someway been dated. Surely no one would bother in 1948...sort of old news by then.
|
|
|
Post by kate1 on May 16, 2017 5:11:46 GMT -5
Some people thought Hauptmann was innocent even after the trial. Reporters and LE included were skeptical the night of the kidnapping. Could have been some like that without specific knowledge of the crime but just doubtful. Still that little verse is intriguing.
|
|
Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,650
|
Post by Joe on May 16, 2017 7:01:20 GMT -5
I'd be looking for one bored Watchung Furniture Store employee of German extraction with an avid interest in the LKC, who was always intrigued by the similarity of the hole pattern on the Mersman table brace supports, as they came out of the Celina, Ohio manufacturing facility. Perhaps he was previously an employee there as well. Add one copy of J.V. Haring's "Hand of Hauptmann" with its illustrations of the ransom note hole pattern (to ruled scale) and published in Plainfield, New Jersey, which is only about 4 miles in distance from the Watchung store. It's not difficult to see that given the breadth of the entire country, just how narrow and focused the investigation would have become very quickly. Not to mention the fact table probably wasn't even manufactured until about the same time Haring's book was published in 1937, about 5 years after the kidnapping. I also have to believe that when this Mersman table brace was discovered by Elmer Bolliard in 1948, the hole pattern similarity to the ransom notes would also have been noticed then by investigators, but probably not mentioned due to a desire by the state of NJ not to have this thing unnecessarily "blow up." And if anyone would like to provide details as to how this brace could ever have been used as an actual template to locate the ransom note holes, I'm all ears.
|
|
|
Post by hurtelable on May 16, 2017 7:50:04 GMT -5
I'd be looking for one bored Watchung Furniture Store employee of German extraction with an avid interest in the LKC, who was always intrigued by the similarity of the hole pattern on the Mersman table brace supports, as they came out of the Celina, Ohio manufacturing facility. Perhaps he was previously an employee there as well. Add one copy of J.V. Haring's "Hand of Hauptmann" with its illustrations of the ransom note hole pattern (to ruled scale) and published in Plainfield, New Jersey, which is only about 4 miles in distance from the Watchung store. It's not difficult to see that given the breadth of the entire country, just how narrow and focused the investigation would have become very quickly. Not to mention the fact table probably wasn't even manufactured until about the same time Haring's book was published in 1937, about 5 years after the kidnapping. I also have to believe that when this Mersman table brace was discovered by Elmer Bolliard in 1948, the hole pattern similarity to the ransom notes would also have been noticed then by investigators, but probably not mentioned due to a desire by the state of NJ not to have this thing unnecessarily "blow up." And if anyone would like to provide details as to how this brace could ever have been used as an actual template to locate the ransom note holes, I'm all ears. What is the basis for stating that the table probably wasn't manufactured until 1937 or later? I believe I read somewhere that this particular model table was manufactured back to the 1920s, if not earlier,
|
|
Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,650
|
Post by Joe on May 16, 2017 8:25:26 GMT -5
Unless there is something more definitive from any available investigation reports, I believe we are constrained to newspaper accounts of the time. In these, both Elmer Bolliard, owner of the table and Albert Weisman of the Watchung Furniture Store, identified the table as having been purchased new between 1938 and 1940. There was a good round of discussion about this in 2007 under the "Lindbergh Case OSS Cover" thread. I've seen enough on this table brace and so called confession to recognize the smell of fermented herring.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on May 16, 2017 13:18:57 GMT -5
"I smell something too." Stan Laurel
|
|