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Post by Michael on Aug 27, 2019 7:12:13 GMT -5
I believe there's some confusion about what specific condition Condon was referring to in relation to the "fleshy lump" feature exhibited by CJ at Woodlawn Cemetery. He also called it a "mutton chop" development along the base of the thumb on the inside of the hand. He was referring to a high development of the Thenar Eminence muscle group illustrated here, and which is a trademark of carpenters, plumbers and other trades, rock climbers, drummers, etc. The only reason it might be called an abnormality is that you don't find it highly developed in the average person. Condon would have been able to detect this condition readily during his handshake with CJ. You forgot teachers too. You know, from "pushing chalk." Anyway, I am certainly not confused. Condon made it all up.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Aug 27, 2019 9:09:07 GMT -5
Michael, I believe I may have sent you a pdf of the above Nosvitsky information, but can't recall for sure. If I did, can you upload it as a resource to your site? If you don't have it, I'd be happy to send it along. You only sent me hard copies. This had to be about 15 years ago! Unfortunately I don't have a .pdf of that material. I'll try to sort my hard copies into subtopics, that I can scan at work and email to you. It may take me a week or two.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Aug 27, 2019 9:37:05 GMT -5
I believe there's some confusion about what specific condition Condon was referring to in relation to the "fleshy lump" feature exhibited by CJ at Woodlawn Cemetery. He also called it a "mutton chop" development along the base of the thumb on the inside of the hand. He was referring to a high development of the Thenar Eminence muscle group illustrated here, and which is a trademark of carpenters, plumbers and other trades, rock climbers, drummers, etc. The only reason it might be called an abnormality is that you don't find it highly developed in the average person. Condon would have been able to detect this condition readily during his handshake with CJ. You forgot teachers too. You know, from "pushing chalk." Anyway, I am certainly not confused. Condon made it all up. You may not choose to believe that account, as I know your stock value in Condon on a general level is less than the Iraqi dinar. The pros, cons and subtleties of discernment aside, I'd safely venture he wasn't talking about a physical deformity as Zorn and others have run with. By the way, if you're referring to Condon's claim about "pushing chalk" from his 1933 dinner engagement with Lindbergh, as he relates in "Jafsie Tells All," he was then talking about the band of muscle on the back of the hand situated in the pocket between knuckles of the thumb and index finger. And yes, Condon's would have been well developed from pushing chalk.
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Post by hurtelable on Aug 27, 2019 9:57:14 GMT -5
Well, amy35, it depends on how you interpret what you see on the photos. In both photos you posted, the posterior aspect of the left earlobe is set away from the head by a greater distance than one would expect to see on average. The same can be said regarding both earlobes in the Nosovitsky photo published in the Noel Behn book, "Lindbergh: The Crime". Perhaps Noso had this trait to a more moderate extent than say, Isador Fisch, but I have little doubt that he had protruding earlobes nonetheless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 10:43:56 GMT -5
Well, amy35, it depends on how you interpret what you see on the photos. In both photos you posted, the posterior aspect of the left earlobe is set away from the head by a greater distance than one would expect to see on average. The same can be said regarding both earlobes in the Nosovitsky photo published in the Noel Behn book, "Lindbergh: The Crime". Perhaps Noso had this trait to a more moderate extent than say, Isador Fisch, but I have little doubt that he had protruding earlobes nonetheless. So you are talking about the whole ear and how it stands out from the skull. When you said earlobe, I thought you meant the lower part of the ear where you commonly see people wearing earrings. Isidor Fisch with his stand out ears: imgur.com/3aZGKhsKiefer Sutherland aka Jack Bauer, with his prominent lower ear lobes: www.biography.com/actor/kiefer-sutherlandThank you for the clarification!
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Aug 27, 2019 10:48:09 GMT -5
Well, amy35, it depends on how you interpret what you see on the photos. In both photos you posted, the posterior aspect of the left earlobe is set away from the head by a greater distance than one would expect to see on average. The same can be said regarding both earlobes in the Nosovitsky photo published in the Noel Behn book, "Lindbergh: The Crime". Perhaps Noso had this trait to a more moderate extent than say, Isador Fisch, but I have little doubt that he had protruding earlobes nonetheless. So you are talking about the whole ear and how it stands out from the skull. When you said earlobe, I thought you meant the lower part of the ear where you commonly see people wearing earrings. Isidor Fisch with his stand out ears: imgur.com/3aZGKhsKiefer Sutherland aka Jack Bauer, with his prominent lower ear lobes: www.biography.com/actor/kiefer-sutherlandThank you for the clarification! Prominent. Nosovitsky.pdf (253.66 KB)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 11:08:07 GMT -5
Is this picture supposed to be showing that his lower earlobe is more prominent than the rest of the ear?? I have that series of articles that newspaper picture is from. These articles are the ones Nosovitsky did about his spy activities; his "tell all" series. Too bad for him he didn't get a book deal like Condon did.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Aug 27, 2019 11:40:35 GMT -5
Is this picture supposed to be showing that his lower earlobe is more prominent than the rest of the ear?? I have that series of articles that newspaper picture is from. These articles are the ones Nosovitsky did about his spy activities; his "tell all" series. Too bad for him he didn't get a book deal like Condon did. His earlobe is certainly distinctive however else it might be described! That series of newspaper articles on Nosovitsky's exploits as "International Spy" is actually contained within the collection of Hoover confidential and personal files. I'm sure you'll recognize a lot of the articles and information about him when I post it. I just revisited the collection and I'd estimate a good 1/3 of it is basically irrelevant other than to present news of the day with no mention of Nosovitsky.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:54:19 GMT -5
That series of newspaper articles on Nosovitsky's exploits as "International Spy" is actually contained within the collection of Hoover confidential and personal files. I'm sure you'll recognize a lot of the articles and information about him when I post it. I just revisited the collection and I'd estimate a good 1/3 of it is basically irrelevant other than to present news of the day with no mention of Nosovitsky. UGH! Spoiler! I was hoping for all the answers to questions about Nosovitsky that I didn't know to ask! I am glad you will post it. I do want to review it. I am sure I will learn something that I don't already know about him.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Aug 29, 2019 10:45:51 GMT -5
That series of newspaper articles on Nosovitsky's exploits as "International Spy" is actually contained within the collection of Hoover confidential and personal files. I'm sure you'll recognize a lot of the articles and information about him when I post it. I just revisited the collection and I'd estimate a good 1/3 of it is basically irrelevant other than to present news of the day with no mention of Nosovitsky. UGH! Spoiler! I was hoping for all the answers to questions about Nosovitsky that I didn't know to ask! I am glad you will post it. I do want to review it. I am sure I will learn something that I don't already know about him. No worries Amy, there's still plenty to think about relative to Nosovitsky's motivations and you'll clearly see how his relationship with J Edgar Hoover, via written correspondence, could well have been cause for embarrassment on the latter's part, should Nosoovitsky's name be mentioned as a suspect in this case.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 15, 2019 9:04:31 GMT -5
I didn't notice it until yesterday, but for those interested in Nosovitsky, please look at the ARCHIVES section on the "home" board. There, back in September of this year, Michael had posted links to Nosovitsky material on Ronelle's boards. In particular, there are links to (A) two parts of Noso's FBI files and (B) two parts of copies of the series of newspaper articles which Nosovitsky wrote titled "Confessions of an International Spy."
With respect to the FBI files, they appear to be arranged well chronologically, but unfortunately they end in 1923. (I would think that the whole set of FBI files would continue well beyond this.) But there are ample known handwriting specimens which one might want to compare to the writings on the Lindbergh case ransom notes, the "J. J. Faulkner" deposit slips, the "J. J. Faulkner" letter, and the "Jhon" letter. It's apparent that Noel Behn had referenced the Nosovitsky FBI files for his book "Lindbergh: The Crime," and indeed those FBI files had been declassified a few years before Behn's book was published. Noteworthy in those FBI files are (1) Noso's relationship with J. Edgar Hoover, whom he corresponded with frequently during those years and met on several occasions, always writing in a rather fawning tone, (2) Noso's begging for financial assistance in some form or another from both Hoover and British spymaster Colonel Woods, (3) Noso's use of a large number of various aliases, (4) Noso's claims of fingering two suspects whom he believed to be the masterminds of the infamous 1920 Wall Street bombing. (That crime was never officially solved.) Also noteworthy in the files was documentation of Noso's spending some time in Germany, which might have led him to be fluent enough in the German language and crafty enough to write the Lindbergh ransom notes in the style they were written.
In the copies of the newspaper articles which Noso wrote are more photos of Noso in various poses than I had ever before seen. He was a real weird-looking dude, someone whose face anyone who had seen him would surely remember. This could possibly relate to Jafsie Condon's talking about Noso's involvement in the LKC in the period following Hauptmann's execution.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Dec 16, 2019 15:52:39 GMT -5
Come on! - Looks like Hoover was trying to didtance himself as best he could from the strange Noso. Looks to me like Noso trying to take advantage as best he could of J. Edgar (TV) H's great success.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 16, 2019 19:51:30 GMT -5
Come on! - Looks like Hoover was trying to didtance himself as best he could from the strange Noso. Looks to me like they were a couple of dudes with Noso trying to take advantage as best he could of J. Edgar (TV) H's great success. Fact is, Noso and Hoover maintained a (non-sexual) relationship over several years even after Noso had been formally cut from the staff of the investigation division of the Justice Dept (which later became the FBI). They would exchange letters and sometimes meet in person in New York when Hoover traveled there. Noso, after he left his formal connection to the DOJ, worked for a BRITISH intelligence unit under Colonel Woods, where his general area of specialty was to infiltrate the Communist Party both in the US and abroad. That was Hoover's most pressing concern as well, so Noso would feed Hoover this type of intel during the early 1920s. In exchange, Hoover, while while resisting Noso's pleadings for financial support from the DOJ, fell for Noso's fraud by serving as a character reference for him with respect to credit Noso needed for his new tire business in New York. Not long thereafter, the two parted ways and neither did any more favors for the other. As for the "couple of ******" issue, Hoover in retrospect is believed to have been a homosexual by many, but evidence would seem to indicate that Noso was involved with several women during his life and even spent time in prison on a charge of bigamy.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Dec 17, 2019 13:41:18 GMT -5
Well, you have a nice imagination, and think good thoughts about these evil people. Tell me about Clyde Tolson and how nice he was!
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 21, 2019 15:03:35 GMT -5
In the very first post in this thread by acondon (2008), it is stated (from the late Noel Behn's book) that letters from J. Edgar Hoover in 1935 and 1936 confirmed that Nosovitsky was "J. J. Faulkner"!
Would anyone here be able to post copies of these J. Edgar Hoover letters? (I've seen the Nosovitsky FBI file as linked to on Ronelle's site, but it seems to go no later than 1923.) Id Hoover's letters are correct on this matter, they would implicate Nosovitsky in the LKC, at least as a possessor of a significant chunk of ransom money.
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Post by Roger Mummert on May 11, 2020 16:03:09 GMT -5
I am interested in knowing any details on the possible acquaintance between Abraham Melnicoff and Harry Goodman, who murdered him. My grandmother, Goldie Whissell, was married to Abraham Melnicoff, indeed, was the "woman they quarreled over." She went on to marry my grandfather, and I knew one of the two sons of Abraham and Goldie (my uncles) and recently came in touch through ancestry.com with the son (my cousin) of the other son. Any details are much appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 20:09:27 GMT -5
I am interested in knowing any details on the possible acquaintance between Abraham Melnicoff and Harry Goodman, who murdered him. My grandmother, Goldie Whissell, was married to Abraham Melnicoff, indeed, was the "woman they quarreled over." She went on to marry my grandfather, and I knew one of the two sons of Abraham and Goldie (my uncles) and recently came in touch through ancestry.com with the son (my cousin) of the other son. Any details are much appreciated. Hello Roger. I am not familiar with the people you mention above. Are they somehow connected to the Lindbergh case? Where did this murder take place and when?
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Post by hurtelable on May 12, 2020 7:53:29 GMT -5
Amy, please see the first few posts of page 8 of this "JJ Nosovitsky" thread for the answers to these questions.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 8:07:13 GMT -5
Thanks Hurtelable! I did not recall this. Hopefully, Roger will read your post and feather's post will be helpful to him.
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Post by jeanne on Jan 27, 2021 8:11:37 GMT -5
How many years ago was this operation first performed?
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Post by hurtelable on Jan 27, 2021 20:13:00 GMT -5
How many years ago was this operation first performed? WHAT OPERATION are you referring to?
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