jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 17, 2015 10:39:25 GMT -5
I have Gaston Means' book and will trade it for a Dudley.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 17, 2015 13:18:16 GMT -5
Aside from Behn's book, which goes into Noso and his background at some length and includes a photo of Noso (please refer to the index in Behn's book, because the discussion of Noso is discontinuous, and is in parts of several different chapters), other participants on this board, especially Michael and amy35, IIRC, have posted additional info on Noso. You might also want to check into the historical indexes of newspapers to find additional materials on him.
The NYPD had a file on Noso, including fingerprints, at the time they were working on the LKC, since Noso had compiled a criminal history - including a conviction and jail sentence for bigamy - in NYC prior to 1932. In fact, Behn reviewed that file in preparation for his book. One of Noso's numerous aliases listed in his file was "J. J. Faulkner."
The BI (precursor to the FBI) had to have a file on him as well, because he had done some work for J. Edgar Hoover c. 1919.
According to Behn, Noso's previous assistance to the NYPD in solving unrelated murder case or cases may have spared him from police attention with respect to the LKC. Then, after Hauptmann was arrested, all other LKC suspects were seemingly forgotten about by all law enforcement agencies. During the re-investigation of the LKC by Gov. Hoffman and staff, Noso's name came up again, but attempts to locate him and bring him in for questioning were futile.
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Post by Michael on Apr 17, 2015 16:01:06 GMT -5
During the re-investigation of the LKC by Gov. Hoffman and staff, Noso's name came up again, but attempts to locate him and bring him in for questioning were futile. Actually he was located, or I should say that word got back to him that his name was somehow connected to this crime so he came back East to straighten it out.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 17, 2015 16:53:16 GMT -5
By "straighten it out," are you referring to Noso's filing a defamation suit against Condon for Jafsie's purported talking about Noso publicly as part of Jafsie's speaking tours? That suit came after Hauptmann's execution, so Noso would be confident by then that law enforcement wasn't interested in him after the LKC had been "closed." But before Hauptmann's execution, Hoffman's people were unable to locate Noso when, if they had, it might have made a difference in the ultimate outcome.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 17, 2015 17:12:01 GMT -5
Seems Noso would want more than $ 50K, especially if he had to split with at least BRH. The Bremer kidnapping happened about the same time and the got $ 200K for that one.
Was Noso known to be in the NY/NJ area and out of jail on 3/1/32?
Wonder what kind of a relationship he really had with Hoover? I'm aware of some of it.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 17, 2015 20:06:34 GMT -5
Noso was NOT in jail on 3/1/32 but was believed to be out of the NY/NJ area then. However, even if he were somewhere in the Midwest on 3/1/32, it's certainly possible he was back on the East Coast by Friday, 3/4/32, when the second ransom note was mailed from Brooklyn. According to PI William Pelletreau, Noso was the author of that second ransom note and all the subsequent ones (but NOT the first one).
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Post by Michael on Apr 17, 2015 21:22:33 GMT -5
By "straighten it out," are you referring to Noso's filing a defamation suit against Condon for Jafsie's purported talking about Noso publicly as part of Jafsie's speaking tours? No. I am talking about when JN saw his name in the paper as being "wanted" due to the complaint sworn out by PI J. J. McNally. He came back East to clear his name. He wanted to "surrender" to the New Jersey authorities but Kimberling told them he wasn't wanted by the NJSP and therefore did not want him. So eventually he made his way to Trenton to speak with the Governor, essentially to claim he wasn't involved. That was in 1938, however, The NJSP had always known of his exact location since June of 1936.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 18, 2015 12:32:02 GMT -5
Did Noso actually speak face-to-face with Hoffman in 1938, when Hoffman would have been in his last year as governor? If so, is there any record of such a conversation and what exactly was discussed?
The intuitive take here is that by 1938, Hoffman was a lame duck and had been politically ruined already by the LKC. At that point, he had no interest in police or prosecutors pursuing charges against Noso, even though they had to have been pretty darn certain that Noso was "J. J. Faulkner." Perhaps also the statute of limitations had already run out on anything Noso could have been charged with, so Noso could feel confident about trying to "clear his name."
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Post by Michael on Apr 18, 2015 21:09:42 GMT -5
Did Noso actually speak face-to-face with Hoffman in 1938, when Hoffman would have been in his last year as governor? Hoffman's term was up on January 18, 1938. The NJ Governor's terms used to be only (3) years AND they could not serve consecutive terms. The (4) year two consecutive terms rule started in 1947. To answer your question - no. JN arrived in Trenton to speak with Hoffman but he sent his Secretary to interview him instead. He didn't personally feel it was worthwhile and did not believe JN knew anything so he didn't want to waste his time on it. Here is a copy of a letter he wrote to Casimir Palmer which I believe exemplifies his position: If so, is there any record of such a conversation and what exactly was discussed? I've never seen an affidavit although I do know he was actually interviewed. From what I can glean from Hoffman's correspondence JN denied involvement. The intuitive take here is that by 1938, Hoffman was a lame duck and had been politically ruined already by the LKC. At that point, he had no interest in police or prosecutors pursuing charges against Noso, even though they had to have been pretty darn certain that Noso was "J. J. Faulkner." Perhaps also the statute of limitations had already run out on anything Noso could have been charged with, so Noso could feel confident about trying to "clear his name." I have to disagree with your position here. Hoffman wanted a complete solution to this crime regardless. Next, Kimberling was Colonel of the NJSP and he would have liked nothing more then a complete solution of the case as well.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 19, 2015 5:13:27 GMT -5
I'm sure it was, but will ask anyway:
Was the J.J. handwriting compared to Nosovitsky?
Also, Hurtelable, did you know there was another person named Faulkner who passed a ransom bill?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 8:26:37 GMT -5
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 20, 2015 14:36:08 GMT -5
Never heard of another person named "Faulkner" who is known to have passed a Lindbergh ransom bill. Who do you have in mind?
I do know that law enforcement dug into the question of the identity of "J. J. Faulkner" quite extensively and even questioned novelist William Faulkner about it.
Remember that the same "J. J. Faulkner" who signed the bank slip for the deposit of Lindbergh ransom bills in 1933 also wrote an extensive letter to Gov. Hoffman in 1936 claiming that Hauptmann was not guilty of the crime for which he had been convicted.
Apparently, at some point, the NYPD realized that "J. J. Faulkner" was Jacob Nosovitsky because "J. J. Faulkner" is listed as one of Nosovitsky's many aliases in Noso's NYPD file, as Behn states in his book.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 20, 2015 20:17:46 GMT -5
It's noted in "FBI Files. . ." Not many ransom notes were traced back to individuals so even though J.J. was most likely fictitious it was unusual to have two with the same last name.
Joseph Frederick Faulkner Employee of a NY cafeteria $5 Bill Discovered on 2/1/34
The recipient said he thought Faulkner took the bill from his pants pocket, not the cash drawer so it must have given the investigators a start, but no relationship between the two Faulkners was found.
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Post by Michael on Apr 21, 2015 15:50:31 GMT -5
Remember that the same "J. J. Faulkner" who signed the bank slip for the deposit of Lindbergh ransom bills in 1933 also wrote an extensive letter to Gov. Hoffman in 1936 claiming that Hauptmann was not guilty of the crime for which he had been convicted. That's debatable. Some sources say they were the same and more say they weren't. It depends upon the source. Apparently, at some point, the NYPD realized that "J. J. Faulkner" was Jacob Nosovitsky because "J. J. Faulkner" is listed as one of Nosovitsky's many aliases in Noso's NYPD file, as Behn states in his book. I think realizing that Noso used a "J. J. Faulkner" alias isn't the same as realizing he was the Author of that deposit slip.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 22, 2015 9:21:57 GMT -5
Just curious: what is the source for this tidbit of information? Do you know where this Joseph Faulkner passed the $5 bill and what he was purchasing with it? How was Joseph Faulkner identified as the bill passer? After all, it would have taken the recipient of the bill a little time to ID it as a Lindbergh ransom note, and by that time the passer would probably be long gone.
It's obvious that passing or possession of a single $5 ransom bill wouldn't usually raise a high index of suspicion that Joseph Faulkner was involved in the LKC. If, hypothetically, he had a sizeable quantity of ransom bills in his possession - as "J. J. Falkner" and Hauptmann had - he would have been a very "hot" suspect.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 22, 2015 9:33:54 GMT -5
Technically you are correct. But I think you would agree that the chances of two different criminal minds using the same alias - and that alias isn't as common as e.g., "John Doe" or "John Smith" - are quite slim, especially if those two individuals had no connection to each other.
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Post by Michael on Apr 22, 2015 16:29:23 GMT -5
Technically you are correct. But I think you would agree that the chances of two different criminal minds using the same alias - and that alias isn't as common as e.g., "John Doe" or "John Smith" - are quite slim, especially if those two individuals had no connection to each other. While I agree Noso should have been looked at, I do not agree with the logic you rely on to conclude it was him. In short it completely ignores many things. As examples, if someone uses a host of aliases the odds become higher that someone else might use it too. "Faulkner" was not uncommon, and "J.J." was about as common as "John." Next, it also assumes that someone who uses this alias would include it as an identifier attached to an illegal act.... It also assumes someone who knows someone uses it would exclude it's use for just this reason. Furthermore, in the context of the crime and it's investigation, it's important to note who Jane Faulkner was and where she lived in relationship to an angle the Police investigated.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 22, 2015 22:26:22 GMT -5
The source for Joseph Fredrick Faulkner and the $5 ransom bill is the book "FBI Files on the Lindbergh Kidnapping."
Though Jane Faulkner and J.J. Faulkner were connected by address, investigators were certain that Joseph had nothing to do with TLC.
Interesting too from that book, when searching for boad Nelly, CAL & company found two (possibly three - I don't remember exactly) boat Nellies, none having Charlie aboard.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 9:52:20 GMT -5
Thanks for bringing up the $5 ransom note passed by Joseph Faulkner. I never noticed that when I was looking over that section of the FBI Summary report. I will have to go back and review those bills a little closer!
There was also a John Faulkner connected to Dr. Condon. This Faulkner actually lived at 1336 Balcom Ave. This John Faulkner had been one of Condon's students in the past. Balcom Ave. was the street that ran just behind St. Raymonds Cemetery. Whittmore Ave. connected to Balcom Ave. If you recall, according to Condon, CJ had to leave to go get the Boad Nelly note and then bring it to Condon to exchange for the $50,000. Could the neatly written note have been created at this Balcom Ave. house???
Interesting that there actually was boats sighted that were named Nelly. I am going to look for that in the Summary report.
Does anyone know if Isidor Fisch's handwriting was ever checked against the J.J. Faulkner deposit slip? I can't seem to locate the answer to this on our board, although it could be somewhere on here!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 10:01:39 GMT -5
I also wanted to post this newspaper article. It mentions the police following up on J.J. Faulkner leads. This article mentions that at least 500 J.J. Faulkners were checked out. I don't know how accurate that figure is but it shows that J.J. Faulkner was not an uncommon name. However, I do think that the linking of the name J.J. Faulkner and the address used on the deposit slip is more than coincidental. news.google.com/newspapers?id=J3ouAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EIYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4485%2C2195241
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Post by jack7 on Apr 23, 2015 12:17:27 GMT -5
I don't recall how many students Condon had taught but it was like many thousands. The only reference I recall of that is the investigators asked him about one student (perhaps that Faulkner) and Condon said he didn't remember him.
One theory has Duane Bacon, a former custodian at that location involved in the crime with Noso and they just used that address on the slip. This is just from memory so could be somewhat off. Last I heard about it both Bacon and Noso were missing.
If you've ever seen that deposit slip for the gold notes you'll notice it wouldn't take much of a forger to come up with that signature.
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Post by Michael on Apr 23, 2015 17:31:24 GMT -5
Does anyone know if Isidor Fisch's handwriting was ever checked against the J.J. Faulkner deposit slip? I can't seem to locate the answer to this on our board, although it could be somewhere on here! Special Agent C. A. Appel compared the Faulkner deposit slip with the handwriting of Richard Hauptmann, Anna Hauptmann, Isidor Fisch, and Jerome Keith Faulkner. He determined that none of them wrote it.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 24, 2015 7:51:04 GMT -5
From what I've read, it was strictly an AIR search by CAL & Co. I find it very hard to believe that they sighted any "Boat Nellies," because if they did, they would certainly have made voice contact, either by radio or in person, with whomever was on board the Nellie or Nellies, and gotten some physical description of those on board. This might have required their own boat, and I'm unaware of the CAL party entering their own boat to meet up with a "Boat Nelly."
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 24, 2015 8:08:07 GMT -5
Should be noted that this Joseph Faulkner's middle initial was F., NOT J. So he was not a "J. J. Faulkner."
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 24, 2015 8:34:36 GMT -5
Well, since the "J. J. Faulkner" deposit was made in Manhattan, and the "J. J. Faulkner" letter to Gov. Hoffman was postmarked somewhere nearby (Brooklyn?), I would think that law enforcement were primarily interested in "J. J. Faulkners" connected to the NY metro area. That, plus concentrating the J. J. Faulkner" search on men, would reduce the number of people to check out. Using those limitations, I tend to agree with amy35 that there would be as many as 500 "J. J. Faulkners" who were checked out.
Perhaps you could get an idea of how many "J. J. Faulkners" there were of suitable gender, age, and location by checking out the 1930 US Census, the last one done before the police search for "J. J. Faulkner." Of course, this would only be a rough number, because there were people who dodged the census takers, especially career criminals.
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Post by Joe on Jul 27, 2015 7:34:32 GMT -5
Interesting too from that book, when searching for boad Nelly, CAL & company found two (possibly three - I don't remember exactly) boat Nellies, none having Charlie aboard. Jack, I wasn't aware that Lindbergh had come across more than one Boad Nelly in the search for his son, but if true would tend to support the belief it was a pretty common name. Here are a couple of interesting points around the name that I researched and posted about ten years ago (couldn't find the original) that may or may not have anything to do with the origin, but let's see where the discussion leads. 1. Nellie Bly, the famous investigative journalist, departed on her 25,000 mile around-the-globe trip from Hoboken, New Jersey on Nov. 14, 1889. Richard Hauptmann arrived in the United States in September of 1923 at the dock in Hoboken, New Jersey, before taking the ferry to NYC. That in itself is not much of a connection, unless there might have been some reference made by someone around the time of his arrival, that this was the same port Nellie Bly departed from and arrived at during her famous trip.. and perhaps something that stuck in his mind? Nellie had actually just died the year before in 1922 so news of her might still have been fresh. Could there also be a plaque of some kind that was erected to commemorate the event, and that Hauptmann might have noticed at some time? I haven't been able to determine that. Nellie Bly of course, is often associated with the method of travel she used most in her journey, by ship or boat. 2. Nellie Bly was interred in 1922 at Woodlawn Cemetery, where Jafsie and 'John' first met. Her current memorial stone was erected in 1978 by the New York Press Club. Even though she was originally buried in an unmarked pauper's grave, would this fact have been known by Hauptmann? For anyone interested, Nellie Bly's memorial stone can be found in plot 212, section 19 in the Honeysuckle Lot. It’s also where many victims of the influenza epidemic of 1918 are buried. 3. The spelling of Nellie Bly and Boad Nelly are different, but given Hauptmann's peculiarities within his written English, I don't think it's a stretch to see him doing that. 4. Nellie's journey took 72 days from start to finish, the exact same number of days it took to discover the body of CALjr from the time he was reported missing until the afternoon he was discovered by William Allen. Forget this coincidence unless you're really into synchronicity as much as I am! Some questions that may perhaps lead to some answers?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 11:12:42 GMT -5
Great post, Joe.
You have made some really interesting and informative posts on this board bout the ransom notes and the symbol on those notes. I have always been intrigued by the psychological connection you have espoused concerning Hauptmann and Lindbergh. Your take on the circle symbol on the notes really brings that point out. I have always felt that the notes reflect someone who either knew Lindbergh or had followed his life or learned about it in detail.
Based on that, I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the Boad Nelly note and how it might be more personally connected.
1) The name Nellie - When the U.S. government began awarding Contract Air Mail routes, Robertson Aircraft Corporation won the CAM-2, Chicago to St. Louis run. They readied 5 mail planes for this run. Lindbergh was taken on as the chief pilot for this contract. Lindbergh was given the task of selecting the two pilots who would be sharing the route with him. Lindbergh chose two of his friends from his days with the Army Air Service. Lindbergh chose Philip R. "Red" Love and he also chose Thomas P. "Nellie" Nelson.
2) A small Boad 28 feet long - Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis plane (air boat) was just shy of 28 feet long.
3) Location of the Boad Nelly - The area designated as the location of the boat is part of the route sailed by Charles and Anne on their honeymoon.
4) Eliz(s?)abeth Island - Perhaps a reference to the Morrow family; Mrs. Elizabeth (Betty) Morrow, Anne's mother and Miss Elisabeth Morrow, Anne's sister.
We all know that this note was bogus as far as being about Charlie's true location. The writer knows this too. So could this note reflect a more personal connection to Lindbergh's life and the people in it?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Jul 27, 2015 12:30:51 GMT -5
I have always been intrigued by the psychological connection you have espoused concerning Hauptmann and Lindbergh. Your take on the circle symbol on the notes really brings that point out. I have always felt that the notes reflect someone who either knew Lindbergh or had followed his life or learned about it in detail. Amy, you raise more interesting points along the same lines. Of course, we could very well be dealing here with the same kind of coincidences seemingly put forth by the universe, as seen in the remarkable coincidences when comparing the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations, but it's great to investigate some of these possibilities. Yes, I believe there are some very deep psychological motivations within Hauptmann's actions that ran throughout, from conception of the kidnapping to the St. Raymond's ransom payment. While I don't think it was ever acknowledged that Hauptmann followed Lindbergh's exploits closer than the average person, it is revealing to note his interest in Baron Mannfried von Richtofen.. perhaps here he was just more forthcoming in his show of support for a German as opposed to an American aviation hero. It would be very interesting to know how closely he did follow life of Charles Lindbergh. Here I could envision a combination of awe, great respect and jealousy on his part, with a deep underlying resentment towards Lindbergh's level of success, compared to his own comparatively mundane station in life.. basically what Dudley Schoenfeld had concluded. The ransom note symbol for me is unparalleled in its importance towards the highly practical and deeper psychological makeup of Hauptmann. I believe he's saying more here about himself than you see in most entire books about this case.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 8:29:36 GMT -5
Yes, I believe there are some very deep psychological motivations within Hauptmann's actions that ran throughout, from conception of the kidnapping to the St. Raymond's ransom payment. Saying that, you don't see money as being the motivation for Hauptmann being involved in this kidnapping? Hauptmann was always about getting money and ending up rich. I think he wanted to be able to return to Germany, to his hometown of Kamenz, as the bad boy who makes it good in America. He wanted to make his mother proud and redeem himself and the family name by coming back a rich, successful man and not the criminal he was when he left. I guess I see his real motivation as being money, and not Lindbergh exactly.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jul 28, 2015 10:28:59 GMT -5
The money angle is certainly there, Amy, but other motivation as well. For money he could have kidnapped just about anyone well to do or their child and come up W/50k a lot closer to Richard's home and if he just grabbed someone off the street with a lot less complications.
Though I don't go along with all of Shoenfeld's intrinsic conclusions (homosexual etc.) It is so very surprising that regarding area of residence, occupation, etc. he was so closely right on.
For some reason everyone whose occupation (title) starts with a "p" has a fervent need to insert Freudian sexual preference into their opinions of unknown people.
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