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Post by hurtelable on Mar 15, 2015 17:17:40 GMT -5
To aimee:
(1) Whose DNA samples did you have tested that proved to be either half siblings or cousins?
(2) Where is there any evidence that Anne lost her baby in high altitude flight? I'd agree that she was engaged in high altitude flight, but have never seen any evidence that she had a miscarriage.
(3) Are you implying that a substitute baby was given to the Lindberghs to replace that lost baby and the substitute was little Charlie, who, according to your theory, was then given back to his real family, exchanged for a child who died shortly thereafter and whose whose remains were found in the woods?
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 16, 2015 13:27:04 GMT -5
To aimee:
(1) Whose DNA samples did you have tested that proved to be either half siblings or cousins?
(2) Where is there any evidence that Anne lost her baby in high altitude flight? I'd agree that she was engaged in high altitude flight, but have never seen any evidence that she had a miscarriage.
(3) Are you implying that a substitute baby was given to the Lindberghs to replace that lost baby and the substitute was little Charlie, who, according to your theory, was then given back to his real family, exchanged for a child who died shortly thereafter and whose whose remains were found in the woods? Hi Hurtelable: 1) The DNA that I had tested was that of my dad and my aunt (his "sister"). 2)After the High Altitude Flight...Anne did not get out of the airplane until everyone cleared the hanger. She left in tears. Information about airplanes and pregnancy was established after that flight. Anne's dad was very upset from the entire incident. Not only did she pose danger to her unborn child, but the scandle that would have followed would have been devistating. 3) Yes, I am implying that the Lindberghs' replaced the baby that Anne lost from the flight. (Hense, the birthdate announcemnt was delayed.) Yes, I am also saying that the replacemnt baby was given back to his real family..although he was then blending into my Great Aunt's sister's family who had a sick toddler that was used to put into the woods. My dad's first memories were that of the Meriden (Undercliff) TB Children's Sanitorium in Connecicut. I am also certain that Elizabeth Morrow (Anne's mother) and Dr. VanIngen had a lot to do with logistics. After the kidnapping trail, Dr. VanIngen went on to become an authority on Milk Stations.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 16, 2015 13:35:52 GMT -5
Julian A. Morrow.pdf (53.86 KB) ...Can anyoneone locate this person?? Julian A. Morrow, Vital Statistics Registrar in 1951. The State of Connecticut (this is from one of my dad's birth certificates) does not have a listing of prior registrars.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Mar 16, 2015 14:56:25 GMT -5
Do you mean that your DNA testing concluded that they were related to each other, or is some other party involved, and how did you obtain the DNA of that other party (a Lindbergh?) if that is the case.
Aside from that wouldn't you have known before testing that your dad and his sister were related or did you suspect something else?
Sorry if this was covered by you earlier - I know you've posted a lot - the "real Charlie out there somewhere theory" has always seemed pretty incredible because no one has ever adequately answered the big question - why? It would seem difficult enough to accomplish a near perfect crime of that magnitude without unnecessarily further complicating it and according to most of these fables, letting other people in on the big secret which the perpetrator(s) had.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 16, 2015 15:21:50 GMT -5
Do you mean that your DNA testing concluded that they were related to each other, or is some other party involved, and how did you obtain the DNA of that other party (a Lindbergh?) if that is the case. Aside from that wouldn't you have known before testing that your dad and his sister were related or did you suspect something else? Sorry if this was covered by you earlier - I know you've posted a lot - the "real Charlie out there somewhere theory" has always seemed pretty incredible because no one has ever adequately answered the big question - why? It would seem difficult enough to accomplish a near perfect crime of that magnitude without unnecessarily further complicating it and according to most of these fables, letting other people in on the big secret which the perpetrator(s) had. The DNA showed a relationship between the two siblings(my dad and his "sister"), but not a full relationship. I did not obtain DNA from the Lindberghs. Reese Lindbergh did not comply. Yes, My family knew that there were missing links and constantly questioned my dad's childhood. All of my dad's physical characteristics and time frames have always matched. We never had the resources to compare any information when I was growing up. To answer the question as to "why?" would they have let Charlie Jr. live?? The near perfect crime was so intrinsic, that the switching of the toddlers made it even more complicated. They did not want to kill or hurt Charlie Jr., they didn't have to, he went bye bye into another family. When Anne was pregnant with Jon, they wanted their child, not someone elses.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Mar 16, 2015 15:50:49 GMT -5
It depends who was holding Charlie whether they would care if lived or died. One of the doctors said he felt the concussion was intentional.
A reporter asked Land Lindbergh once what question was most often asked and what thing most requested and she said questions about her long deceased brother Jr., and DNA. Guess that would get kinda' old.
Your father certainly looked like Charles Jr. As far as I'm concerned I'll believe that he was - unfortunately that won't put any potatoes in your pot, but you would be a Lindbergh. So see you later Aimee Lindbergh.
Jack
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 20, 2015 9:30:53 GMT -5
Jack.. Thanks for that. When I do get some of those potatoes that you are talking about, I will be bringing that attention to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 24, 2015 19:56:37 GMT -5
I know the question is directed to Michael. But I thought I'd just mention the article says Lindbergh was flying for Hartford on March 5. Interesting that Red Johnsen’s last day in jail in Hartford was March 5. Later that day he was driven by the police to New Jersey. Source Falzini’s Their Fifteen Minutes. Attachment Deleted
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Post by hurtelable on Mar 25, 2015 13:37:59 GMT -5
To aimee:
Interesting that the bureaucrat in charge of birth certificates in Connecticut in 1951 had the family name MORROW. But it wouldn't support your theory of Charlie as a replacement baby unless you could show that (1) Julian Morrow was related to the Dwight Morrow family and (2) Julian Morrow was in the same or similar position in Connecticut as far back as the early 1930s. IF both of those statements happen to be true (which is possible but not likely), you could conclude that Julian Morrow was in a good position at the time to aid in the baby exchanges you suggest occurred.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 26, 2015 10:57:24 GMT -5
To aimee:
Interesting that the bureaucrat in charge of birth certificates in Connecticut in 1951 had the family name MORROW. But it wouldn't support your theory of Charlie as a replacement baby unless you could show that (1) Julian Morrow was related to the Dwight Morrow family and (2) Julian Morrow was in the same or similar position in Connecticut as far back as the early 1930s. IF both of those statements happen to be true (which is possible but not likely), you could conclude that Julian Morrow was in a good position at the time to aid in the baby exchanges you suggest occurred. My take on Julian A. Morrow is that he held the position of Registrar in 1951. (That doesn't mean that he was or wasn't around in the early 30's) I don't know if this is a Morrow family member, I can't trace the name. There is a strong connection to the Morrow Family and Connecticut. A birth certificate had to be produced, (reissued) in 1951 in order for my dad to enter the Navy. ...if this was true...Can you imagine how everyone had to scramble !!?? By the way...I will be reviewing my 1932 Connecticut Newspapers this weekend. I don't know what I am looking for, but I'll know when I see it! Ill keep you posted. Thanks.
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Post by stella7 on Mar 26, 2015 20:42:33 GMT -5
Aimee, I was born in Bridgeport Hospital and moved to New Jersey when I was 12. I have had to request a birth certificate from the Vital Statistics Registrar each time I needed one. Getting my passport, driver's license, marriage license, etc. At least 4 or 5 times, I have needed to request them. It must be how the State of Connecticut operates. It is interesting that the name was Morrow on one of them.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Mar 30, 2015 10:48:47 GMT -5
Julian A. Morrow2.pdf (53.86 KB) Aimee, I was born in Bridgeport Hospital and moved to New Jersey when I was 12. I have had to request a birth certificate from the Vital Statistics Registrar each time I needed one. Getting my passport, driver's license, marriage license, etc. At least 4 or 5 times, I have needed to request them. It must be how the State of Connecticut operates. It is interesting that the name was Morrow on one of them. Yes...of all of the names that a Registrar of Connecticut could have been...that certainly was a name I was surprised to see!! There are alot of connections to both famlies and Connecticut. Alot. *Also....After reviewing the the 1932 newspapers recently...I don't know if I missed something or not. I don't know the details..like some of you, so I will scan some articles in the near future to see if there is any information that would be interesting.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 1, 2015 13:13:43 GMT -5
Dear Board, Intead of posting the 1932 Connecticut Newspapers, I decided to go back to the beginning of my files and notes. This is a photo of my dad..(with my "aunt"- whom is blocked out on purpose.) playing in and with the dirt. Wow..How fun. busy, busy. NOW LOOK....at the automobiles parked on the street behind my dad. On the left is a rather large automobile and on the right is a very expensive automobile. The year was 1932. Does anyone know what kind of cars these are...any ideas on who owned them?? Thanks.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 1, 2015 17:23:05 GMT -5
To aimee:
As far as I can see, it might be possible to ID the models of those cars, but how could you possibly identify the owner(s), unless, at the least, you saw the license plate numbers.
Why is your "aunt" whited out on the picture?
It may be possible to identify the location at which that photo was taken if the building in the background can be identified by its architectural features. Just a thought.
As for your father, you can see that he was a blond curly haired child. But the blowup of the photo is so fuzzy that it's impossible to make a reasonable comparison of photos between your father in that picture and the photos of Charlie. Looks like it might be the same, but then again, Charlie wasn't the only curly-haired blond kid about that age at that time.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 1, 2015 22:03:44 GMT -5
The "very expensive" car on the right is a Ford Model A - early thirties.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 1, 2015 22:39:46 GMT -5
As I understand it, the Ford Model A was hardly considered a "very expensive" or a luxury car in its time. Instead it was built and marketed as every man's car, with very high volume production on Ford's famous assembly line. It was the successor to Ford's Model T.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 2, 2015 5:31:51 GMT -5
The car on the left could be a Franklin.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 2, 2015 11:36:33 GMT -5
I will look at other photos to see if I can locate this area. The area in which my dad is playing seems like a unlikely place to sit your kid down to play in shirtless in the dirt. The autos and/or my dad seems very out of place. I blocked out my "aunt" because she is mad at me. I called her to explained that I didn't just come up with up with all this information about my dad. It has been formulated in the fabric of my childhood because my parents always questioned my dad's true identity. When I asked my mom about the automobiles in the photos last night, mom replied, "I don't know about those cars, but I do know that dad's family had a alot of secrets". Thanks for the thoughts on the make and models of those cars.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 2, 2015 12:15:16 GMT -5
I would have used words like "Our Son" instead of "the baby".
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 2, 2015 17:22:21 GMT -5
To aimee:
Can't see any particular reason why you posted that copy of the Lindberghs' message to the purported kidnappers. How does that letter (press release at the time?) support your theory of the switched babies?
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 5, 2015 8:12:34 GMT -5
To aimee:
Can't see any particular reason why you posted that copy of the Lindberghs' message to the purported kidnappers. How does that letter (press release at the time?) support your theory of the switched babies? To hurtelable: ...Just another example. Perhaps because "the baby" was never Anne's to begin with. The letter sounds detached.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 5, 2015 16:36:00 GMT -5
According to a lengthy deposition by a Catholic Priest, Father Michael J. Kallok, as published in a newspaper, the following was observed or noted in 1931.
The Priest saw Bruno Richard Hauptmann and an architect, Robert A. Schumann, looking at blueprints of the Lindbergh home near Hopewell and that Schumann told him on several occasions that the Lindbergh baby would be "kidnapped; that it was to be raised in ignorance of its parentage by a German family. . ."
Father Kallok also witnessed in 1932, BRH horseback riding with Gerta Henkel.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 6, 2015 9:24:20 GMT -5
Never heard of Father Kallok. In what newspaper and when did his deposition appear?
Who determined that the Lindbergh baby was to be "raised in ignorance of its parentage by a German family..."? (This was long before CAL Sr. had displayed any specific affinity for Germans or Germany and before the beginning of the Nazi regime.)
Not surprising that Gerta Henkel would be seen with BRH, since we knew they were friendly.
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Post by Michael on Apr 6, 2015 10:10:41 GMT -5
Never heard of Father Kallok. In what newspaper and when did his deposition appear? There's a chapter on him in Fisher's Ghost book. I've got a file an inch thick on him but I've been holding off discussing him in anticipation of Champ Atlee's book.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 24, 2015 19:45:51 GMT -5
Hi Michael and all: I think that it would be interesting for you to know that my father was actually Jewish and German. This must have been very confusing to CAL.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 25, 2015 6:41:08 GMT -5
To aimee:
Regarding this Jewish and German description of your father, please clarify. According to your previous statements, my take is that you would be referring to his adoptive parents, NOT his natural parents.
Although quite a number of people have claimed that Lindbergh was anti-Semitic, based primarily on his later trips to Nazi Germany and his hobnobbing with top Nazi officials while there, others would disagree. One recent author says that Lindbergh's business in Nazi Germany was as an American spy, evaluating the Nazi aircraft and later reporting back to Washington. Also, Lindbergh had a close friend who was Jewish (one of the Guggenheims), and seems to have had friendly relations with a few Jewish figures in the LKC drama.
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Apr 28, 2015 10:25:45 GMT -5
Regarding this Jewish and German description of your father, please clarify. According to your previous statements, my take is that you would be referring to his adoptive parents, NOT his natural parents. (hurtelable)
That is correct.. "adoptive family" was Jewish/German. They used Yiddish and German in combination. Words are still incorporated in my life as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 11:40:29 GMT -5
I found a newspaper article featuring a priest during the search for the kidnapper in the actual newspaper. I will investigate if it is THAT priest. As to Lindbergh's anti-Semitism there is a long & deep history starting with his father's Jew-baiting of Paul Warburg - Fed chairman in 1913 Hearings, CAL's snubbing New York City Jewish notables during his solo flight celebrations & Rabbi Wise's angry letter to Straus wanting to publish this fact. Pearl Buck's meeting with CAL in China notices Fascist streak in CAL in 1931. CAL anger at being turned down by Jewish Wall Street for his flight finances & his letter decrying "THAT type of Jew - the New York Jew" as being the worst type etc. etc. Not responding to Einstein's A-Bomb letter can also be construed as not wanting to associate with Jews as well as not saying hello to Einstein when he entered his laboratory at the Rockefeller Institute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:55:48 GMT -5
I was wondering, Alan, how you account for CAL's relationship with the Guggenheim family then. It was quite friendly.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 13:01:28 GMT -5
The Guggenheim in question was an aviation pioneer & aviation trumps everything in the Lindbergh world. Also, science (discounting Einstein, the Jew) trumped everything as Lindbergh on the night of the kidnapping was working at the Rockefeller Institute under the leadership of Simon Flexner. And included in the science I would place Thomas Edison whose son ran for Governor of New Jersey as a Democrat (& won) c. 1940 & Lindbergh says he "might" vote Democrat for the first time in support of Edison's son.Conclusion - Lindbergh's anti-Semitism wasn't of the Joseph Goebbels sort, that is, it could be discounted under certain circumstances.
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