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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 7:35:04 GMT -5
Post by kanneedwards on Feb 25, 2006 7:35:04 GMT -5
Checking about symbols I came up with two possibilities though I'm not sure how they might be connected. In eighteenth century chemistry the interlocking rings were used to symboize "sugar" and French gypsies use the interlocking symbols to indicate a house that was "safe" or "friendly" Carrel was the only French person involved here. American hobo's used this sign to mean "police treat tramps roughly here" the symbol could be perceived to represent handcuffs. I'm sure Fisch knew many bums. maybe if the symbol was usesd to exclude others from extortion the "handcuffs" were a warning to stay away. I think this symbol at least took time to crreate even if there wasn't a significant meanig
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 7:47:27 GMT -5
Post by kevkon on Feb 25, 2006 7:47:27 GMT -5
So I take it that you believe that the "singnature" has some meaning other than identification as the true kidnapper.
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 9:31:05 GMT -5
Post by Michael on Feb 25, 2006 9:31:05 GMT -5
I look at it this way....It was used as an authenticator but must have come from somewhere. I like that Kathy is adding to these possibilities so they are on the table in case someone else hits on something else in the future.
The biggest mystery concerning the symbol is why the need for the Sleeping Suit? The symbol proved who they were dealing with wasn't it?
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 15:38:39 GMT -5
Post by hobo symbols on Feb 25, 2006 15:38:39 GMT -5
According to this source on the internet, the two interlocking symbols were used by hobo's in Europe but meanings were different from country to country. In England these recommended that a tramp "tell a moving story" and in Sweden this sign means "there is nothing to be afraid of here, continue" don't know if this means anything at all but i thought someone might have some ideas. Maybe Sue would know? ?
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 16:48:24 GMT -5
Post by Elyssa on Feb 25, 2006 16:48:24 GMT -5
In later years two interlocking circles (colored blue, I think) were the symbol of airline TWA. I'm not sure what year that symbol was put in use. But do know the letters TWA filled in the space where the square holes were on the ransom note.
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 18:57:33 GMT -5
Post by kathy for elyssa on Feb 25, 2006 18:57:33 GMT -5
CAL was a corporate person for TWA "the lindbergh line" the Roma (travelers) used the double ring as a sign for "don't give up" maybe some of htose italians were actually gypsies.
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 20:19:38 GMT -5
Post by Michael on Feb 25, 2006 20:19:38 GMT -5
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symbols
Feb 25, 2006 21:38:03 GMT -5
Post by rita on Feb 25, 2006 21:38:03 GMT -5
The symbol is interesting in that could Hauptman or CAL have selected a symbol whose image lindbergh would later work under? A possible meaning for the Ailines use of the symbol is also intersting, as I would think it meant to them a safe house.
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symbols
Apr 5, 2006 23:06:50 GMT -5
Post by elyssa on Apr 5, 2006 23:06:50 GMT -5
If Condon didn't personally know the Lindberghs before the kidnapping why did he get involved, other than publicity? Strange how the kidnappers answered his ad in the paper offering to be a go between, then Lindbergh accepted this, not knowing Condon. Is it possible that Condon knew the kidnappers and was involved as a way of getting close to his HERO. Perhaps he already had the paper with the symbol and he answered his own ad or had someone answer it. He could write what he wanted on the paper in order to get to meet with Lindbergh. How did he know to ask for the sleeping suit and not the homemade undershirt, the undershirt would have been additional proof. How did he get away with not giving all the ransom, yet he still received the note telling the childs where abouts? All the things Condon did worked out perfectly for him and Lindbergh. Is there a possibility that Condon contacted Lindbergh and offered his help personally, with I'll do anything for you, anything you say type offer, and Lindbergh took him up on it. After all we've all talked about how Lindbergh wanted to be and was in control of everything that happened from the night of March 1. Maybe he was more in control than was ever suspected, and that's why he was miles away looking for a boat that never existed the day the body was found. It took him out of the picture for a little while and took suspicion away from him just in case someone started to question his part in the missing child. Or if Condon started telling everything he knew,If Lindbergh took the child himself and gave him to someone it would be logical to remove all known clothing. Clothing could have been stashed until needed, as proof of kidnapping through the mail, and as proof of Charlie being dead when A body was found. That would explain the quick cremation if Lindbergh knew it wasn't Charlie.
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symbols
Apr 6, 2006 10:23:55 GMT -5
Post by rick for elyssa on Apr 6, 2006 10:23:55 GMT -5
Elyssa...I agree with what you have posted. We should all be totally skeptical about anything Condon does or says in his efforts of self-promotion--and CAL as well.
1. Gaston Means and Curtis "were contacted by others" whereas, Condon invites himself into the process. Later on, as publicity dies down, Condon sits in a storefront window with the ladder to get more attention.
2. Condon hedges every single one of his bets from beginning to end (espeically the id of Cj to see who gets arrested) providing himself with maximum flexibility and an out on everything he says and everything he does no matter how wacky. Since Condon is also an attender at the mystical occult Church in Harlem he may well have seen the symbol before.
3. CAL must have been phishing for a PT Barnum type showman to sell his kidnap hoax. Out of thousands of offers--he picks an eccentric 72 year olde blowhard.
4. Condon idolized CAL just like Schwartenkopf. Both would subjugate all common sense to CAL's control. The perfect conspirators, simple minded to manipulate.
5. The sleeping suite scam is proof of the internal hoax. Noone in their right mind would rely on the sleeping suite, all washed and clean, to identify a baby "alive and well'. Noone would pay $50K for store-bought clothing. EXCELLENT POINT--at no time does anyone mention the t-shirt with blue threads!!! The Wookkies can't wriggle out of this Truth. They could mail themselves the Dr. Denton Suite as a red herring. Its still a wonder anyone beleives that ruse.
6. As we all can see now, the blue thread t-shirt has another role to play....identification of the blackened skeleton on Mt. Rose Road. Its the clincher and they all must have known that on 1 March 32. There is no marker, no service, no prayer, no funeral, no nothing at the babys gravesite.. Just a garder variety cremation.
7. In spite of the overt complexity of the singnature Symbol....CAL ignores it totally to pursue other leads and fly around with Curtis on a wild goose chase.
8. Well, its just as likely that CAL and Anne and Gow knew ahead of time that it was in fact Charlie. Its just that Doc Van Ingen blinked so he could avoid being asked what exactly happened to him for 72 days.
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symbols
Apr 6, 2006 11:09:53 GMT -5
Post by gary on Apr 6, 2006 11:09:53 GMT -5
Personally IMO don't put too much into the symbol. I think its good to discuss it but I think it will end without much to say. I think the crime was well thought out (socks to cover feet) (no fingerprints) etc etc..... I very well doubt he or they would leave a clue like it appears we would like to find.
I would like to think we can find something within the mistakes that were made and there are not many. The thumbguard is a definite. Lack of fingerprints and mud in the room could be. If an insider was involved he or she should have made the room a little more shackled.
Concerning the sleeping suit. I think it was an absolute necessity to have something of the child's. I don't think the symbol was enough. A symbol can be copied especially if it hits the media. I am not sure if I understand Lindbergh's surprise that the sleeping suit was washed. I think that would be usual.
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symbols
Apr 6, 2006 11:26:21 GMT -5
Post by rick62private I on Apr 6, 2006 11:26:21 GMT -5
Hi Gary, well one thing you cant deny about the symbol is that it sure is complicated. I cant quite get over combining the allignment of the holes in the paper with the colored circles. Plus the two Waffen-SS lines? Whose mind could conceive of something so intricate? Some kind of genius I suppose? I was looking at the holes in The Hand of Hauptman and most interesting one is like a 3-leaf clover. Its not on every note though?
I wish we could come up with some lead on the HOLES. Didnt someone quess at one time it was a spy trick? In line with Michaels Archive post I was thinking of 300 for a code....3 holes plus two circles? yikes.
I like your idea about "backing up the symbol" just in case Rosner took it to every forger in the Tri-state area phishing for a kidnap gang. Maybe the forger who can copy it best wins? After all the Nursery Note was photograhed and sold on the street early on.
But the sleeping suit gambit is just so lame. Noone should have accepted that as factual. At least 30 servants would know that the sleeping suite was a Dr. Denton and since the so-called kidnap was so well planned out for one year, access to this information would be just as far away as a phone. Maybe even Sharpe gave it away? Gaston Means parlayes the sleeping suite in to $100,000 of Evalyns money.
You and I in 5 minutes could come up with numerous ways the gang could prove that Charlie is alive and well. None would include his pajamas. Its just too lame. To me this proves the Hoax.
Especially if Anne and Gow washed it.
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symbols
Aug 23, 2006 12:52:26 GMT -5
Post by rick3 on Aug 23, 2006 12:52:26 GMT -5
I continue to entertain the notion that the Symbol was "recognizable" to someone--maybe to CAL or maybe to organized crime, maybe even as a warning? Here is a new twist: <<<<<<Also, the lightning bolt was a Mafia symbol that meant, “Do it quick.”>>>>>>>> This could be a potential clew in conjuction with Condons report over the phone to Mickey Rosner: " Its the sign of the Mafia"? Condon was accused by some reporter, Gabriel Heater or the likes, of takeing a symbol book out of a NY City Library? As it turns out...the point in a circle is also The Sign of the Sun/Mafia/Illuminati/etc as well: www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/268.html
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