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Post by Michael on Nov 13, 2006 0:31:52 GMT -5
By the Summer of 1933 Lt. James J. Finn held a working theory which he shared with Special Agent J. J. Manning mentioned in detail within Manning's 8-22-33 report: 1. Solution of the case will be found in either the Upper Bronx or Lower Westchester County.
2. Among the parties involved there is a man of German extraction who has some experience in draftsmanship and a thorough knowledge of nursery work.
- German spelling of certain words in the ransom notes.
- German characteristics in the ransom notes.
- Draftsmanship exhibited in one of the ransom notes in which is drawn a "packet" with given dimensions, and which was designated by the kidnappers as the receptacle.
- Ladder used was purely a "nursery" ladder.
- Note found beneath the rock in front of floral shop on Tremont Ave.
- A suspect is an employee of a floral or shrub house on the west side of Lower Manhattan (the location of the Manufacturers Trust Company, Chemical Bank and Trust Company, and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York) which sells most of the seeds to the Woodlawn Cemetery.
- Appearance of one of the ransom bills in a City Island, Bronx, branch of a local bank.
- Kidnappers must have had a comprehensive and extremely thorough knowledge of the upper Bronx and lower Westchester County.
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Post by leah on Nov 13, 2006 9:46:21 GMT -5
well Lt Finn didn't find the kidnappers. I think he should have added to that list illiterate, couldn't spell the most basic english words ,ie bee at least consistantly. why would a draftsman care what the money was delivered in? also maybe an acrobat, he was able to manuver in the dark over a suitcase, tinkertoy and all with a 30 lb baby. maybe if he hadn't used a nursery ladder it wouldnt have broken? Lt Finn must have been a genius to figure out the kidnappers knew alot about the bronx, but what about the marthas vineyard area not to mention the lindbergh house?
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mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
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Post by mairi on Nov 13, 2006 14:56:51 GMT -5
A nursery ladder? As in green growin things? Well that's right interesting that they considered anything other than an up- against- the- wall- kidnap- ladder. . This leads me to the long burlap strips found at grave site-KevKon explained their use as being to wrap tree trunks in. This, in turn, makes me think of the near-by peach orchard to the farmhouse the LBs rented. Did we ever find out if that house was occupied around the time of kidnap? What was it's directional proximity to the grave site? Did the LBs renting there fall within the "planned for a year already'? Thanx for the explanation, Rick. I gotcha. Thanx, too, for the murder mystery game site. Is that how you got so good at detecting?
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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Post by kevkon on Nov 13, 2006 16:59:58 GMT -5
Here is a typical "nursery ladder"; www.imagecabin.com/?view=16345477414674e50ed1c4d6fThey are still made today. Typical of them is the taper from top to bottom creating a splayed ladder Here is an antique store ladder; www.imagecabin.com/?view=163454775880115df89d8ecf5It actually has more in common with the kidnap ladder, note the round rung and "U" joint. I could go on and on with examples of "primative" ladders. Go to any jobsite and you will probably encounter something resembling the kidnap ladder. Bottom line: they all have rails and rungs. It is the joint that is really unique. Anyway, Finn was pretty close.
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mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
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Post by mairi on Nov 13, 2006 18:23:57 GMT -5
KevKon~Those are terrific ladder photos! It really does help to see how they actually look. The proverbial "Picture worth 1000....."etc, etc . Will print them off for ref. Thanx for posting those.
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Post by Michael on Nov 13, 2006 22:00:56 GMT -5
Leah - We have to remember that Lt. Finn's focus was on the ransom money being passed.
Kevin - I agree with Mairi ....thanks for exemplifying what he meant because I certainly had no idea until now....
When you say Finn was "pretty close" where do you think he was off? It seems to me that he could have been 100% correct. We have some of this apparently fitting Hauptmann so why not expect the rest fall in line with a Confederate?
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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Post by kevkon on Nov 13, 2006 22:30:57 GMT -5
Thanks, I have many more ladder photos, but none with that unique joint. I think Lt. Finn is off regarding a nursery worker. The first photo I called a " nursery" ladder is in fact an orchard ladder. A nursery would probably have little use for a ladder of such length. In any case whatever the use; orchard, store, construction, chimney sweep, they all resemble the kidnap ladder in one way or another. None are an exact match, though. Lt. Finn is dead on regarding the drafting skill.
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Post by Michael on Nov 14, 2006 6:29:51 GMT -5
I agree. I found that everyone who ever claimed this ladder was the same type as ones they've seen weren't once the Police chased them down. I often wonder if the person who actually designed the ladder hadn't seen one of the types you mention above then got the idea to alter it into this new design....
Do you draw this conclusion based upon the evidence Finn had or what you know about Hauptmann? I confess I do not know much about drafting (outside of a 7th grade class I once took) so whatever you can tell me will definitely help to educate me on the subject.
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kevkon
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,800
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Post by kevkon on Nov 14, 2006 16:55:10 GMT -5
First I should say that when I say drafting I don't necessarily mean that in the formal sense. What I mean is that the ransom "packet" diagram and the ladder drawing show a very good sense of proportion coupled with a familiarity of isometric drawing. The singnature shows a certain skill and composition. Anyone who doubts this can try duplicating any of these items for themselves. It's not quite as easy as it looks. Those small iso drawings are remarkably in proportion. Thats not easy at such a small scale and freehand.
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Post by Steve on Nov 17, 2022 20:25:43 GMT -5
When my dad was a child he lived with Lt. Finn and his family. He said everyday a driver (a lower level cop) would pick up Lt Finn at his home (Far Rockaway Beach, LI) and take him into work.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Nov 18, 2022 15:30:48 GMT -5
Some of Lt. Finn's observation appear right on the point. Consider the number of ransom bills that turned up in Manhattan, the site of a major garden store at which the Giesslers worked. The Geisslers once lived in New Jersey and attended church in Tenefly when the first Mrs. Giessler was alive. One ransom note was left at a garden store giving directions to a cemetery. Another ransom note was found in Larchmont where the Geissler lived after moving from the Plymouth apartments. There are many connections here, too many to be mere coincidences.
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Post by Michael on Nov 19, 2022 14:24:58 GMT -5
Some of Lt. Finn's observation appear right on the point. Consider the number of ransom bills that turned up in Manhattan, the site of a major garden store at which the Giesslers worked. The Geisslers once lived in New Jersey and attended church in Tenefly when the first Mrs. Giessler was alive. One ransom note was left at a garden store giving directions to a cemetery. Another ransom note was found in Larchmont where the Geissler lived after moving from the Plymouth apartments. There are many connections here, too many to be mere coincidences. If you are interested in this angle you might want to pick up V3. I cover a lot of information about them in a rather large chapter on J.J. Faulkner.
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Post by Steve on Feb 23, 2023 22:04:45 GMT -5
When my father was very young he lived with Lt James J Finn and his family in Far Rockaway Beach, Long Island. My dad started living with them shortly after Bruno Hauptmann was arrested. In 1940 my dad was still living with them. I wish I could find some descendants of Lt Finn so that I could ask if they have any pictures of Finn and my Dad together.
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Post by wolfman666 on Feb 24, 2023 8:18:25 GMT -5
hi steve i have his newspaper obituary it gives his rockaway address
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