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Post by Sue on Jul 29, 2023 13:47:21 GMT -5
Witnesses at a crime scene --
The Fox Movietone News Collection, owned by the University of South Carolina, contains some amazing footage related to the Lindbergh case!
One film is from Mount Rose Hill, the site where the Lindbergh baby was found on May 12, 1932.
The footage includes day and night scenes of investigators and curiosity-seekers at the location.
Ted Rickman is the photographer who did the filming.
There is a man in the film that resembles Richard Hauptmann, but I think that man is stockier than Hauptmann.
This mystery man may be Alfons Kersthold, a local person from the Hopewell area who disappeared soon after the kidnapping.
However, if this man is indeed Hauptmann, why would he have returned to the woods of Mount Rose immediately after the baby was discovered?
Even though I think this man is not Hauptmann, there are others who feel it is him.
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,649
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Post by Joe on Jul 30, 2023 7:23:41 GMT -5
I’d like to clarify some detail here, relative to Sue’s post of a 'man of interest' who appears in the Fox Movietone film footage, taken on Mt. Rose Hill in the days following the discovery of Charlie’s corpse there on May 12, 1932. Here is the link of the footage which contains a number of sequences, showing this man of interest. digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/4093/rec/2(Michael, if you feel that my posting this link might violate any copyright regulations, please remove it or ask me to and I will, thanks) The man first appears at 6:08 from the right of the screen, hands in his pocket, slowly ambling away from the camera, towards what appears to be a group of reporters and newsmen. He then appears again at 7:01 to 7:05, standing with his hands in his pockets and facing the camera. His third appearance occurs at 0:40 to 0:47. Immediately following this sequence, there appears to be a repeat of Appearance #1, which then extends beyond the original sequence, which began at 6:08. This fourth sequence starts at 0:48 and continues to 0:56, at which time he turns his head 90 degrees to the left, affording a view of his head and face profile. On further review, the fourth sequence might well be a distinct one. I wondered if this man might be Richard Hauptmann, as there are a number of features which at first blush, appear to suggest him. Most notably the head, general build, hair and its line, as well as the ears. The man’s height seems about right although his thighs do appear to be quite stocky, perhaps even more than those of Hauptmann. A bit of background here as well. About four years ago, Sue first sent me this link, which I examined closely to try and determine if any of the vehicles, including Hauptmann’s 1930 Dodge might be visible within the various sequences. I didn’t see any of apparent significance at the time, and basically filed the link. Earlier this year, Sue again sent me the video link. As I was going through it again, I focused on a specific man who appears a number of times in various sequences. The sequences in which the man appears, might also be a bit out of order as to how they would originally have been shot. There has been a good amount of private discussion about this back and forth, with opinions ranging from “not him” to “it might be.” Of course, it could well just be a curious onlooker, who shares some of the same physical characteristics as Hauptmann. As Sue previously noted in a separate post, there was a local man by the name of Alfons Kersthold, who lived not far from this site, and who according to some witnesses could have been mistaken for Hauptmann at first glance. Salesman Frank Scanlan, whom I believe had been driving near Hopewell at the time of the kidnapping, also looked a lot like Hauptmann. As far as I’m aware, these film sequences have not previously been examined for this purpose. It was decided to essentially ‘put it out there’ for general discussion, so that others might be able to weigh in with their thoughts. BTW, it's also quite interesting how the Lindbergh house appears so clearly in the background from the Mt. Rose Hill vantage point. Attachments:
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Post by IloveDFW on Jul 31, 2023 4:32:23 GMT -5
I’d like to clarify some detail here, relative to Sue’s post of a 'man of interest' who appears in the Fox Movietone film footage, taken on Mt. Rose Hill in the days following the discovery of Charlie’s corpse there on May 12, 1932. Here is the link of the footage which contains a number of sequences, showing this man of interest. digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/4093/rec/2(Michael, if you feel that my posting this link might violate any copyright regulations, please remove it or ask me to and I will, thanks) The man first appears at 6:08 from the right of the screen, hands in his pocket, slowly ambling away from the camera, towards what appears to be a group of reporters and newsmen. He then appears again at 7:01 to 7:05, standing with his hands in his pockets and facing the camera. His third appearance occurs at 0:40 to 0:47. Immediately following this sequence, there appears to be a repeat of Appearance #1, which then extends beyond the original sequence, which began at 6:08. This fourth sequence starts at 0:48 and continues to 0:56, at which time he turns his head 90 degrees to the left, affording a view of his head and face profile. On further review, the fourth sequence might well be a distinct one. I wondered if this man might be Richard Hauptmann, as there are a number of features which at first blush, appear to suggest him. Most notably the head, general build, hair and its line, as well as the ears. The man’s height seems about right although his thighs do appear to be quite stocky, perhaps even more than those of Hauptmann. A bit of background here as well. About four years ago, Sue first sent me this link, which I examined closely to try and determine if any of the vehicles, including Hauptmann’s 1930 Dodge might be visible within the various sequences. I didn’t see any of apparent significance at the time, and basically filed the link. Earlier this year, Sue again sent me the video link. As I was going through it again, I focused on a specific man who appears a number of times in various sequences. The sequences in which the man appears, might also be a bit out of order as to how they would originally have been shot. There has been a good amount of private discussion about this back and forth, with opinions ranging from “not him” to “it might be.” Of course, it could well just be a curious onlooker, who shares some of the same physical characteristics as Hauptmann. As Sue previously noted in a separate post, there was a local man by the name of Alfons Kersthold, who lived not far from this site, and who according to some witnesses could have been mistaken for Hauptmann at first glance. Salesman Frank Scanlan, whom I believe had been driving near Hopewell at the time of the kidnapping, also looked a lot like Hauptmann. As far as I’m aware, these film sequences have not previously been examined for this purpose. It was decided to essentially ‘put it out there’ for general discussion, so that others might be able to weigh in with their thoughts. BTW, it's also quite interesting how the Lindbergh house appears so clearly in the background from the Mt. Rose Hill vantage point. Joe, at the beginning, is that the burlap bag on the ground? Wouldn't LE guard it as possible evidence?
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Post by stella7 on Jul 31, 2023 10:49:11 GMT -5
Thank-you Sue and Joe for posting this. My guess is that it is not Hauptmann but a local onlooker. Two questions, have any of the other people in this been identified? And, the long shot with the water tower looking toward Broad St. in Hopewell, is that Highfields along the ridge? That's something you certainly cannot see now.
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Post by Michael on Jul 31, 2023 16:26:23 GMT -5
Thank-you Sue and Joe for posting this. My guess is that it is not Hauptmann but a local onlooker. Two questions, have any of the other people in this been identified? And, the long shot with the water tower looking toward Broad St. in Hopewell, is that Highfields along the ridge? That's something you certainly cannot see now. I took screenshots and blew them up. I agree with you Norma, that's not Hauptmann. Although I disagree with Joe on many things, I don't fault him for asking, but its definitely not him. At 9:00 - 9:36, I see Mercer County Prosecutor Marshall (LEFT) and Hunterdon County Prosecutor Hauck (RIGHT) coming out of the woods together. The film then cuts to Marshall making a statement.
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Post by Sue on Jul 31, 2023 17:48:23 GMT -5
Hi Stella7,
I would check newspaper photos from May 13th and afterward. Maybe some of those people in the video are named in photos and articles from that time? There must have been other photographers taking pictures on that very same day of those very same people!
Hi Michael,
Do you have a photo of Alfons Kersthold to compare how much he might have looked like Hauptmann? (Alphonse is another way his name was spelled.)
Thanks!
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,649
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Post by Joe on Aug 1, 2023 11:16:47 GMT -5
Mary, if you mean the light-coloured object that appears at the right about 0:17, I'm really not sure. I have to believe that if investigators had actually noticed THE burlap sack by the side of the road at approximately the same time as the body was first discovered, then it's probably something else, as they would have already removed it or at least had a trooper guarding it. The body was discovered at 3:15 pm on May 12, 1932, with the first investigators reaching the spot around 4:00 pm. Schwarzkopf had his briefing with reporters in the early evening of May 12. The shadows cast in this film suggest to me perhaps mid to late morning, of the following day or even later, with the weather having cleared by then.
Norma, when I first saw this guy in the film, my hair actually stood on end, but it didn't take long to realize there was an equal number of factors that suggested it wasn't Hauptmann. And yes, that's Highfields on Sorrel Hill there. I'm hoping we can somehow get a photo of Alfons Kersthold.
Michael, thanks for the ID's. One of my main concerns about it being Hauptmann, was in even imagining he would have come back to the scene right after the discovery of Charlie's body, except perhaps to grab the sleepingsuit at some unknown location, within the first week and a half of the crime itself. Especially with a visible camera rolling at the scene. It would have been the ultimate 'sticking it to the police,' in my mind. At the same time, I do believe that unconsciously, Hauptmann wanted to get caught.. just not until 1934.
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Post by Michael on Aug 1, 2023 21:29:12 GMT -5
Do you have a photo of Alfons Kersthold to compare how much he might have looked like Hauptmann? (Alphonse is another way his name was spelled.) Hi Sue. Unfortunately, the only "look-a-like" pictures I have are of Schippell and Scanlon. At the same time, I do believe that unconsciously, Hauptmann wanted to get caught.. just not until 1934. I'm interested to hear more about this theory.
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Post by lightningjew on Aug 2, 2023 0:20:42 GMT -5
Does anyone have a picture of the marker that was at the site where CAL Jr. was found? I've heard there once was one back in the trees off the road or just by it.
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Post by Michael on Aug 2, 2023 11:44:34 GMT -5
Does anyone have a picture of the marker that was at the site where CAL Jr. was found? I've heard there once was one back in the trees off the road or just by it. Back when I was a kid, my father brought my brother and I around to all the important places regarding the kidnapping. He also brought us to the infamous Zelinsky house in Linvale which isn't too far from Hopewell for anyone interested. Anyway, I can't remember if I saw it at the time (this was a long time ago) or if it's just in my head that it was there - but at one time there was an arrow, literally a hunter's arrow, that was stuck in the ground that marked the spot. I'm not sure if this is what you are referring to Nate, but that's all I'm aware of unless I've forgotten. Irvin might know more about this. What I do know is that by 2000, it wasn't there anymore.
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Post by lightningjew on Aug 2, 2023 15:51:18 GMT -5
Yes, I remember hearing there was a marker which had disappeared, and something about it being a metal pole or shaft of some sort. I guess people could've been describing an arrow... Anyway, was just curious if there were ever any pictures.
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Post by lurp173 on Aug 2, 2023 19:37:00 GMT -5
In regards to Michael's response to a marker being at the Mt. Rose Hill site, I thought that i might add the following: I first visited that site in the 1950's when I was probably 10 or 12 years old. At a young age I knew that my Great Uncle Harry Wolfe had been involved in the Lindbergh case, and that the site where the child's remains had been found was only one mile (on a straight line "as the crow flys") from our house on the southern edge of Hopewell. I had apparently pestered my mother about seeing this site to the point where she took me there to see it. My mother had been shown this exact site by Harry Wolfe (her Uncle) back in the 1930's, so I know the site she showed me was the correct one where he viewed the child's remains. I have no recollection of ever seeing any type of marker either on the road frontage or at the wooded site. As a youngster in the 1950's I played in all of the fields and woods around that site, and as a teenager in the early 1960's I hunted on all of the farms surrounding that area. I never saw a marker of any kind. In addition, the school bus that transported the Hopewell teenagers to the Princeton High School would pass by that site on Mt. Rose Hill twice a day, and again I never remember seeing any type of marker. It seems to me that the State of New Jersey would not have placed any type of official marker at this site out of respect for the Lindberghs. This site does represent a very tragic and morbid event. Perhaps at some point after 1932 an individual placed some sort of homemade marker near the site that survived for a few years. I definitely don't recall seeing anything there. I'm attempting to attach a family photo of my Great Uncle Harry Wolfe to this post. It was taken in the time frame of the early 1930's when he was Hopewell's Police Chief. I thought that some out here may like to put a face on him.
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Post by A Guest on Aug 3, 2023 14:32:22 GMT -5
Hi Lurp173, Thank you for posting that picture of your Great Uncle Harry Wolfe. It is always great to be able to put a face with a name. Although there was a police presence around the Mount Rose Site for a period of time, eventually that did not continue once they felt they had gathered what evidence they could from the area. The site would again become a point of focus by authorities once Bruno Richard Hauptmann was apprehended. Authorities were photographed at the site in September 1934 searching the ground for a bullet that might have been unknowingly left at the site in 1932. I am linking a newspaper article from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle of September 23, 1934. It talks about the condition of the grave site and how overgrown it was. When reading this I am not sure how the authorites could exactly pinpoint where the body had laid to search for a bullet. imgur.com/8trSZwH
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Post by wolfman666 on Aug 3, 2023 14:52:35 GMT -5
Saw a marker in 1991 when somebody took me there don't know if it the right spot or not I have a picture of it never seen it again with other visits
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Post by wolfman666 on Aug 3, 2023 14:53:53 GMT -5
I do from 1991 never saw it again
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