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Post by stella7 on Feb 5, 2023 10:10:12 GMT -5
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,653
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Post by Joe on Feb 5, 2023 10:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Feb 6, 2023 9:44:43 GMT -5
Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole, Joe!
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Post by Sherlock on Feb 6, 2023 12:08:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the excellent and informative articles on Asberger's Syndrome and the recollections of CAL's grand daughter. The authors of the Asperger paper concluded there was strong evidence that CAL did have this condition which is known to have high inheritability. How ironic and indeed tragic that he was so concerned about spreading his "superior" Nordic genes far and wide. However there's no evidence of the Syndrome in his American family. I don't know about the Germans; I assume they are aware of the possibility.
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Post by bluejade on Feb 8, 2023 10:32:31 GMT -5
I don't think he had Asperger's. I do think he had a misunderstood genetic disease. There are a couple of different genetic possibilities. Many of them are very rare. Some types can make a child seem to have the flu and/or be more prone to infections..Or prone to epilepsy.They may also seem to get worse with age.Some types can make it difficult to eat or have issues swallowing. I believe it is what first drove Charles Lindbergh to work with the Rockefeller Institute. Where they probably tried to diagnose and treat the child. It is possible the disease was known to the family.It is also explains why there are no pictures of Charles JR as he got older. Either Charles Lindbergh decided his child was too sick to live or Charles Jr may have passed away from complications of his illness. Using the Watson method on such a child could easily prove deadly. It could be they pinned the child to the bed, he spit up and couldn't clear his airway.
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Post by bluejade on Feb 8, 2023 11:13:04 GMT -5
Encephalitis may cause only mild flu-like signs and symptoms — such as a fever or headache — or no symptoms at all. Sometimes the flu-like symptoms are more severe. Encephalitis can also cause severe symptoms including confusion, seizures, or problems with movement or with senses such as sight or hearing. I believe the people around the baby mainly loved him, wanted what was best for him, and tried to protect him and the family. They did not have today's medical knowledge to better under what was wrong with the baby. If he had sezuries they may have viewed them in a much different light than we do today. Some probably knew he was sick but the amount of real info they had varied Link to article of research for encephalitis at Rockefeller University. www.scientificamerican.com/article/extreme-flu-weird-encephalitis-it-may-be-your-genes/
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Post by IloveDFW on Feb 8, 2023 15:04:08 GMT -5
I don't think he had Asperger's. I do think he had a misunderstood genetic disease. There are a couple of different genetic possibilities. Many of them are very rare. Some types can make a child seem to have the flu and/or be more prone to infections..Or prone to epilepsy.They may also seem to get worse with age.Some types can make it difficult to eat or have issues swallowing. I believe it is what first drove Charles Lindbergh to work with the Rockefeller Institute. Where they probably tried to diagnose and treat the child. It is possible the disease was known to the family.It is also explains why there are no pictures of Charles JR as he got older. Either Charles Lindbergh decided his child was too sick to live or Charles Jr may have passed away from complications of his illness. Using the Watson method on such a child could easily prove deadly. It could be they pinned the child to the bed, he spit up and couldn't clear his airway. They were posting about CAL, not his son.
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Post by Michael on Feb 8, 2023 17:56:10 GMT -5
Encephalitis may cause only mild flu-like signs and symptoms — such as a fever or headache — or no symptoms at all. Sometimes the flu-like symptoms are more severe. Encephalitis can also cause severe symptoms including confusion, seizures, or problems with movement or with senses such as sight or hearing. I believe the people around the baby mainly loved him, wanted what was best for him, and tried to protect him and the family. They did not have today's medical knowledge to better under what was wrong with the baby. If he had sezuries they may have viewed them in a much different light than we do today. Some probably knew he was sick but the amount of real info they had varied Link to article of research for encephalitis at Rockefeller University. www.scientificamerican.com/article/extreme-flu-weird-encephalitis-it-may-be-your-genes/Thank you for your input. I find it all very interesting and certainly glad you decided to post. One of the investigators working on the Dudley Field Malone angle wrote to Hoffman that Mrs. Morrow and Lindbergh hadn't spoken for six months, and also intimated there was a relationship between Lindbergh and Gow as well. I don't know if either is true, but there were some other assertions in that letter that I remember to be correct from other sources. If true, does either have to do with the child - or something unrelated? Regardless, I do believe everyone around the baby, minus Lindbergh, cared about him. The first hint of a "defect" most likely caused his knees to buckle and I think he was happy to be rid of him as evidenced by his vacation with Curtis when he was throwing buckets of water on people, stopping the search for ugly hats, and playing card games instead of looking for his son - among many other things. I submit that he already knew he was dead and was playing a role very poorly at that point.
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Post by stella7 on Feb 8, 2023 18:08:00 GMT -5
Yes, I was posting about CAL, but thank you for posting that information blue jade, your post was very interesting. I never understood why Charlie was pinned to the bed, always sounded both cruel and dangerous to me. So you think it was Charlie's illness that brought Lindbergh and Carrell together and not Elizabeth's heart condition? Do we know how long Lindbergh had been working with Carrell before Charlie died?
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Post by IloveDFW on Feb 8, 2023 18:29:23 GMT -5
Encephalitis may cause only mild flu-like signs and symptoms — such as a fever or headache — or no symptoms at all. Sometimes the flu-like symptoms are more severe. Encephalitis can also cause severe symptoms including confusion, seizures, or problems with movement or with senses such as sight or hearing. I believe the people around the baby mainly loved him, wanted what was best for him, and tried to protect him and the family. They did not have today's medical knowledge to better under what was wrong with the baby. If he had sezuries they may have viewed them in a much different light than we do today. Some probably knew he was sick but the amount of real info they had varied Link to article of research for encephalitis at Rockefeller University. www.scientificamerican.com/article/extreme-flu-weird-encephalitis-it-may-be-your-genes/Thank you for your input. I find it all very interesting and certainly glad you decided to post. One of the investigators working on the Dudley Field Malone angle wrote to Hoffman that Mrs. Morrow and Lindbergh hadn't spoken for six months, and also intimated there was a relationship between Lindbergh and Gow as well. I don't know if either is true, but there were some other assertions in that letter that I remember to be correct from other sources. If true, does either have to do with the child - or something unrelated? Regardless, I do believe everyone around the baby, minus Lindbergh, cared about him. The first hint of a "defect" most likely caused his knees to buckle and I think he was happy to be rid of him as evidenced by his vacation with Curtis when he was throwing buckets of water on people, stopping the search for ugly hats, and playing card games instead of looking for his son - among many other things. I submit that he already knew he was dead and was playing a role very poorly at that point. And laughing two years later in public about "that NJ business". That just about tells it all.
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Post by Sherlock on Feb 9, 2023 11:42:04 GMT -5
Hi Stella 7, Lindbergh first met Dr Carrel on November 28, 1930 when Charlie his son would have been about 5 months old which seems early for any developmental disorders to be apparent. So while it may have been Elizabeth's heart condition which brought them together it is very likely that as Charlie developed his condition would be discussed by Lindbergh and Carrel. With their shared enthusiasm for eugenics, who knows where these discussions led? Hope this helps. Sherlock
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hiram
Detective
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Post by hiram on Feb 10, 2023 10:46:59 GMT -5
Charles Lindbergh.html (144.77 KB) Attached is an article from a Detroit newspaper detailing the activities of Charles Lindbergh during WW II. Some details appear to identify personality traits.
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,653
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Post by Joe on Feb 10, 2023 17:40:03 GMT -5
Hi Stella 7, Lindbergh first met Dr Carrel on November 28, 1930 when Charlie his son would have been about 5 months old which seems early for any developmental disorders to be apparent. So while it may have been Elizabeth's heart condition which brought them together it is very likely that as Charlie developed his condition would be discussed by Lindbergh and Carrel. With their shared enthusiasm for eugenics, who knows where these discussions led? Hope this helps. Sherlock Sherlock, what condition are you referring to? It's quite apparent Charlie had a moderate rickety condition and so it seems reasonable Lindbergh may have discussed this with Dr. Carrel, while he was doing his research and development work on his perfusion apparatus. Perhaps Lindbergh even enlisted some advice on Charlie's crossed toes, (clinodactyly) about which medical opinion would have advised the Lindberghs against doing anything until he was older (approx. 6-7 years) for surgery to correct this. And it seems reasonable he would have told him the condition may even correct itself before that age, therefore negating the need for surgery.
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Post by Michael on Feb 10, 2023 19:02:06 GMT -5
Hi Stella 7, Lindbergh first met Dr Carrel on November 28, 1930 when Charlie his son would have been about 5 months old which seems early for any developmental disorders to be apparent. So while it may have been Elizabeth's heart condition which brought them together it is very likely that as Charlie developed his condition would be discussed by Lindbergh and Carrel. With their shared enthusiasm for eugenics, who knows where these discussions led? Hope this helps. Don't forget it was Dr. Paluel Flagg, the anesthesiologist Lindbergh met during his son's birth who put him in touch with the staunch Eugenicist Dr. Carrel. I wonder what they were talking about after his birth that led to this introduction? Sherlock, what condition are you referring to? It's quite apparent Charlie had a moderate rickety condition and so it seems reasonable Lindbergh may have discussed this with Dr. Carrel, while he was doing his research and development work on his perfusion apparatus. Perhaps Lindbergh even enlisted some advice on Charlie's crossed toes, (clinodactyly) about which medical opinion would have advised the Lindberghs against doing anything until he was older (approx. 6-7 years) for surgery to correct this. And it seems reasonable he would have told him the condition may even correct itself before that age, therefore negating the need for surgery. When do you believe the child was first diagnosed with Rickets?
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,653
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Post by Joe on Feb 10, 2023 19:49:52 GMT -5
Sherlock, what condition are you referring to? It's quite apparent Charlie had a moderate rickety condition and so it seems reasonable Lindbergh may have discussed this with Dr. Carrel, while he was doing his research and development work on his perfusion apparatus. Perhaps Lindbergh even enlisted some advice on Charlie's crossed toes, (clinodactyly) about which medical opinion would have advised the Lindberghs against doing anything until he was older (approx. 6-7 years) for surgery to correct this. And it seems reasonable he would have told him the condition may even correct itself before that age, therefore negating the need for surgery. When do you believe the child was first diagnosed with Rickets? I don't believe Charlie ever was categorically diagnosed as having rickets. We do know he was described by Dr. Van Ingen, in his pre-trial deposition, as having had a "moderate rickety condition." Charlie was being given Viosterol 100D, (actual 14 drops) each day along with UV light exposure, and as he demonstrated a number of signs normally attributable to rickets, the inference here is a pretty safe one that he had at minimum, a mild case of rickets. Why do you ask when Charlie was first diagnosed with rickets?
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Post by Sherlock on Feb 11, 2023 4:15:04 GMT -5
Hi Joe, Re "Sherlock, what condition are you referring to?" You answered this question better than I could Joe: his crossed toes, the moderate rickety condition etc. It would be quite normal for any new father to sound out a second opinion from Dr Carrel on these aspects of Charlie's development. Dr Van Ingen was Charlie's paediatrician; Dr Carrel was Lindbergh's close collaborator, colleague, and a fellow eugenicist. One can speculate whose opinion and suggestions would be given more attention by Lindbergh. Sherlock
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Joe
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Posts: 2,653
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Post by Joe on Feb 11, 2023 9:27:00 GMT -5
Hi Joe, Re "Sherlock, what condition are you referring to?" You answered this question better than I could Joe: his crossed toes, the moderate rickety condition etc. It would be quite normal for any new father to sound out a second opinion from Dr Carrel on these aspects of Charlie's development. Dr Van Ingen was Charlie's paediatrician; Dr Carrel was Lindbergh's close collaborator, colleague, and a fellow eugenicist. One can speculate whose opinion and suggestions would be given more attention by Lindbergh. Sherlock Sherlock, I thought perhaps you might have been inferring some health condition more serious than those which did not seem to be restricting Charlie's very normal development, as seen through his clearly demonstrated motor, cognitive, language, social-emotional, and adaptive behavior abilities up to the time of his death.
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