Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 29, 2006 19:16:37 GMT -5
Good points, Kevin, about how robust this type of wired light alarm system would have been. It's interesting that the Hahn's account centres on the period of time a few months after the ransom payment, so it seems apparent the alarm was operational, at least at that particular time and possibly for very good reason. You could well be right that it's service was short lived because it was not designed and built for outdoor durability. Or perhaps Hauptmann perceived that it might be drawing unwanted attention to his garage and removed it.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on May 1, 2006 7:03:54 GMT -5
Joe, if this "alarm" did in fact exist at that period , then it would be highly probable that Hauptmann planned it from the start. That might, once again, have been the genesis for the attic floorboard removal. I admit it is a long shot but it certainly would tie certain facts together nicely.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on May 1, 2006 7:47:10 GMT -5
Kevin, the light alarm could well have been thought out in advance if Hauptmann had planned to use the garage to store certain sensitive items. The account and its timing, given by the Hahns seems to have a certain amount of credible detail, which I believe meshes well with Hauptmann's general nature and tendency to show off his accomplishments and material possessions.
Would there not have been a couple of wall outlets for lamps, etc. in the bedroom for him to access the electrical source? I can appreciate your point about the missing floorboard as it might relate to accessing an electrical supply from the attic, although I'm unclear as to why so much would have to be removed for that purpose. Also, I can see how a previously removed length of the floorboard might have ended up in the basement or garage prior to being used in the ladder.
If he had a bedside switch to turn the light on, as reported by the Hahns, it seems to me a bit overcomplicated to run a wire from the attic to the bedroom and then to the garage, when a bedroom wire could have been spliced or an outlet used. I don't suppose there are any original blueprints and diagrams for the house which show the electrical supply to that room?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on May 1, 2006 8:57:09 GMT -5
It is just a thought Joe, and I admit a long shot at that. However, depending on the exact location of the switch and whether it was a proper installation or not, the attic floorboard which runs directly over the wall below may have been removed for either a feed or supply line. Splicing into an existing box in a plaster & lath construction can be difficult. If I had to run a switched line to the garage in a second floor rental property, I would look for an accessible line or access point which could be located without the need to destroy and repair an interior finish. The attic and basement are two such locations. Of course, as I said earlier, he could have taken a quicker and temporary route by using lamp cord with an in-line switch and a plug to an available outlet. That is a pretty sloppy and haphazard solution , though.
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Post by Michael on May 1, 2006 20:22:23 GMT -5
Referring to this light, if one existed, as an "alarm" seems to be based solely on Hahn's story. I say that if you are going to accept this story as told by him then you can not be selective by picking this one but dismissing his others. The two big bags of money that he claims Hauptmann showed him hidden in the Victrola is a good example. We are to believe not only this, but that Hauptmann told him he was holding it for Fisch and that Hahn told him to put it in the closet.
Kevin,
I believe I saw some reports concerning the Police checking out some wiring in the house. Let me know if you want me to look this up.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on May 1, 2006 20:31:52 GMT -5
Yes Michael, if you get some time I would be interested in what the police were looking for or at.
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Post by Michael on May 2, 2006 20:48:21 GMT -5
Mrs. Hahn is actually the source of this "alarm" allegation. I am going to try and break this down in a nut-shell. According to Hahn's Statement - Hauptmann showed them the garage then showed them an " electrical installment" in his bedroom. This consisted of " electric buttons" from where the bed was which would light up the garage " in case somebody was break in or anything happen." She claimed she saw him press the button and it " lit up the whole garage all around." The Police got right to work on this lead by Interviewing Mr. Rauch - Claimed he did see on several occasions an aerial wire running from the garage to the house. He turned over a porcelain double Beaver socket and a double length of wire about 9 ft. which he " advised was removed from the Hauptmann rooms by an electrician" and the socket was supposed to have come from the Hauptmann bedroom which had been attached to the baseboard. The wire lead along the east side of the bedroom running in a southerly direction, through the wall, leading into the baby's bedroom and closet, along the east wall of the room and at the south-east end of the room, took a course to the west, which led to a floor plug, hooked up in the living room. However, Det. Sgt. Wallace wrote in his report that: There were no wires leading from the house to the garage or no lights hooked up on the house that would illuminate the garage. Mrs. Rauch told police she had often seen the light on the garage, but did not know where the light was connected. A further investigation which was conducted involved interviewing the immediate neighbors surrounding this garage. Two told Police Hauptmann " never" had a light on the garage while others said they had never seen one. Mr. Pepper, whose house faced the garage, claimed that " Hauptmann positively never had any flood light that would shine on same." This report also claimed there was evidence that... ...an extension wire had been run from the middle of the room used as a nursery, through the wall to the bedroom ending in a plug to which any kind of light could be attached. The same wires also run into the front or living room through the base boards ending in a wall plug to which a radio and a shell lamp had been attached.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on May 3, 2006 7:18:37 GMT -5
Great response Michael ! It would seem that Hauptmann once again meets my expectations by running zip wire through walls and around the house, very dangerous but quick. I would still hold out the faint possibility that he had considered doing this properly and thus needed access to the wall under rail 16.
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Post by steve for mike on May 3, 2006 14:07:56 GMT -5
mike the ether was in a reporti had it i lent it to somebody and never got it back. its not outlandish it was just a theory
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Dec 24, 2006 9:07:37 GMT -5
I am curious about the glycerin esters found on a portion of the spent ransom money as well as Emory particles. Dr Alexander O Gettler, chief toxicologist for NYC deduced that his finding of these substances was an indication of tool sharpening. I really don't see either the glycol or the Emory as substances typically used by a woodworker. I know glycol is used as a surfactant or lubricant in some sharpening procedures, but I find it unlikely to be used by a woodworker occasionally sharpening a hand tool. Emory is another substance which might occasionally be used by a woodworker but is more likely found in a metalworking shop. Anyone have some ideas on why these two substances are present and where they may have been found?
Here are some possibilities;
The money was stored in a container such as the oil can which contained glycol antifreeze
Glycerin is used by woodworkers in softening and flattening wood veneers.
Emory is used in some grinding wheels, but Hauptmann's garage does not have power.
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Post by Michael on Dec 24, 2006 11:37:58 GMT -5
Happy holidays everyone.... Dr. Gettler's name has surfaced on several letters written to Gov. Hoffman... I may even have something from him too - I'll have to check, but of course, it could be anywhere. (sigh) I started to shuffle through some of the reports to see what they made of this evidence. There's a mention of this is Lt. Finn's article How I Captured Hauptmann: There was, and still is, a great divergence of opinion as to what these "glycerin esters," as they were called by the scientists, did mean; but the prevailing expert opinion was that they indicated that the many was some kind of mechanic who was in the habit of sharpening his own tools, since particles of glycerin nature , flying off a grindstone or emery wheel might easily lodge on his clothes or person. (p 37) I also found this reference in an FBI Laboratory Report: With respect to the large number of greasy smudges found on the bills the examiner believes that these smudges represent the accumulation of perspiration and grease resulting from handling during the period of circulation. This would account for the statement of Dr. Alexander O. Gettler Chief Medical Examiner, Bellevue Hospital, New York City, wherein is said that "the consistency of the purified material indicates that it is composed of esters for the saturated fatty acids." These glycerin esters are the chemical compounds of which most of the animal and vegetable fats are composed and hence will be found on all bills which have been extensively handled. In this connection it may be stated that the presence of these glycerin esters does not particularly suggest that eh bills had been handled by a person employed in a glycerin factory for although fats are used in the manufacture of glycerin they are quite different from glycerin itself. In the case of a dynamite factory only the finished product glycerin is used and not the fat, unless of course the glycerin was manufactured at the plant.(J.R. Murphy, 8-7-34)
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Post by Ye Olde Fox on Feb 3, 2008 11:04:54 GMT -5
Joe--I was stunned to read, most likely in Bern, that Doc Nosovitsky (international spy and master forger} was known to carry a "small German pistol in his lapel pocket"? Due to the reports that he "disappeared off the face of the Earth" we can no longer axe him where it went? It was very clever of him to keep JEdgar on the over a barrel all his life. Helps get into a witness protection program. Question: Is a lapel pocket similar to a watch pocket?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 3, 2008 12:58:54 GMT -5
I believe the watch pocket most used at the time was the left or right lower vest pocket. I can't recall where Behn said Nosovitsky kept the miniature pistol, I thought he mentioned the inside breast pocket of his jacket.
I've often wondered if some of the the folded bills recovered might also at one point have been placed inside a large pocket watch, accessed by the hinged rear cover. This might explain the brass and gold particles which were identified by Gettler in his analysis of some of the passed ransom notes.
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Post by rick3 on Feb 4, 2008 11:25:39 GMT -5
Joe--this a great point and clever thinking: I believe the watch pocket most used at the time was the left or right lower vest pocket. I can't recall where Behn said Nosovitsky kept the miniature pistol, I thought he mentioned the inside breast pocket of his jacket. I've often wondered if some of the the folded bills recovered might also at one point have been placed inside a large pocket watch, accessed by the hinged rear cover. This might explain the brass and gold particles which were identified by Gettler in his analysis of some of the passed ransom notes. I am not certain if the particles can come from a watch though? It would assume as it ticks away it is self-destructing? Good thought to hide it there! I think the lab decided that it could be a metal working shoppe due to some sort of oil?One source suggested that there was also found red, blond and brunette hairs stuck to these bills too? hard to see that? But the key point is that sometime late summer 1934 after a hiatus of weeks or months of no bills at all--the character of the ransom bills changed to "musty and wet"? This suggests that possiblity that this is after BRH finds the wet box? Maybe?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Feb 5, 2008 7:58:18 GMT -5
The "wet box in a closet" story has a big problem with it. I have never heard it mentioned, probably because no one took the story seriously to begin with.
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Post by Michael on Nov 1, 2008 10:39:05 GMT -5
I wanted to post a picture of the wood Hauptmann had the gun and the money concealed in. I can't remember if this was the thread where we were discussing it.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Nov 1, 2008 16:42:21 GMT -5
I'd still like to know why he felt the need to secret some of the money there. The gun, that I can understand. Perhaps the two are connected?
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Post by Michael on Nov 2, 2008 14:42:09 GMT -5
I seem to remember a discussion we had much earlier where Joe posted a picture and I put one up about the clip and how many rounds it held. I can't find that thread and its driving me crazy!!!
Anyway, as I said earlier it looks like there is some writing on this wood. Also, it seems to back up Hauptmann's testimony at the Bronx Grand Jury that he connected the holes for the gun where they were originally for tools.
However, I think you are right Kevin. It's been my opinion for a very long time now that these bills were the ones Hauptmann was spending first, therefore, it would seem logical that the gun was connected to this in some way. Or perhaps it was just meant to hide whatever he knew was illegal.....but I think its less likely. The only thing that bothers me is that Hauptmann did have a bill on him (which, if I am right, came from this wood) when he was stopped but the gun wasn't on him. So there has to be a method/reason the gun would be brought out and into the picture. It certainly wasn't protecting him or his family being stashed in the garage.
We know he bought it from Mueller, but wouldn't rat him out to the Police. I think it might be important to know exactly when he bought it.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Nov 3, 2008 7:25:08 GMT -5
Why so?
Do we know where the money found with the gun falls in relation to the serial numbers ? Was he picking it from that found in the can or was it from another stash? What would be the point of the double effort of removing money and then hiding it again? Is it possible that he took the entire piece of wood containing the gun and money with him ?
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Post by Michael on Nov 3, 2008 8:31:23 GMT -5
I say this because it shows, to me, that round holes existed first, as those along side of it. It appears to me that these same holes once existed but were altered for the gun. Since you have much more experience here please tell me if you disagree. In fact, anyone who disagrees I would appreciate input. I use this inference on my part to try and determine a time-line of sorts.
"If-then"type theories..... That's why its important to explore all of the "Ifs" because if an "if" isn't true then the "then" isn't either.
I started searching for this once and became frustrated then decided to ask Rab. He told me he didn't know prompting me to give up on it. Maybe I was being lazy? Perhaps I should find the serials and go to the archives and search for them in the book in order to support this theory.
I think this idea sounds possible, however, I don't see him spending this kind of dough with his known passings. Unless he was "planning" something that never took place.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Nov 3, 2008 17:14:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this answers your question, but the standard way to mortise is to start with the holes. Then you use a chisel to clean up or square the opening. Whether or not the block started out as something other really doesn't make much difference to me. It's very strange that he would choose to keep this pistol in such a place and in such a state of readiness.
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Post by Michael on Nov 4, 2008 8:12:03 GMT -5
That does help. So his explanation may appear to fit to someone who doesn't know any better....
Definitely a "state of readiness" but only if he goes to the garage first.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Nov 4, 2008 9:44:31 GMT -5
That tight four hole configuration that was chiseled out stands out from the rest of the more naturally spaced holes. He drilled that board with the intent of creating a holster for his Liliput and a rolled bill reservoir and just lied about it having been used for tools, imo.
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Post by Michael on Nov 4, 2008 10:21:42 GMT -5
You guys are convincing me. And so it seems, if its true, its a pretty smart way to hide both this amount of money it contained as well as the gun. Turned sideways behind the boards in the wall it would look like part of the structure. Having its center carved out is like a false bottom in a box. This would be further proof of his ability to be clever.
Joe, what do you think about Kevin's idea that he would bring the entire board with him? I was thinking this over and thought it might be have been planned for him to give it to someone else to launder while he was speculating stock all day. Kind of like a laundering "kit."
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Nov 4, 2008 15:37:00 GMT -5
I tend to believe it's simply a very clever and easily accessible means of concealed dispenser, conceived along the creative lines of the wrapped money packets discovered behind the nailed on boards - but that it stayed in the garage. IMO Hauptmann adopted a kind of priority system of first, second and third up cash. The cut out 2 X 4 was first up and the most available cash, the newspaper wrapped packets behind the board were second and the shellac tin was the main hoard - and most of it at one time was in that metal crock buried under the floor boards. He had no explanation for that crock yet obviously he must have known about it.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Nov 4, 2008 17:52:23 GMT -5
I see what you are saying , Joe. But why keep the loaded pistol with it? Hauptmann kept his other guns in the apartment, so why not this one? Also, that Lilliput is so small that it seems just as easy to keep it in a draw and slip it into your pocket when you go out. Why take up space that could be used for the money?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Nov 4, 2008 19:44:14 GMT -5
Kevin, in what context do you feel Hauptmann would have occasion to carry that piece of wood outside the garage, where it would essentially lose all association with its secretive purpose? I've never accepted Hauptmann's explanation about the gun being illegal in that he felt compelled to hide it in the garage. Can't see that even entering into the equation when you know the money is of the hot Lindbergh ransom variety. I think it probably represents more of a talsiman to him and that the gun may have a direct connection with the crime, possibly having been carried there as a potential means of defense.
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Post by Michael on Nov 5, 2008 16:37:03 GMT -5
Do either of you, or anyone else, believe he is intending to launder this money (what's in the garage) bill by bill and all by himself?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Nov 5, 2008 16:56:31 GMT -5
Yes and no. If you mean personally bill by bill, then no. But I do believe he was actively and solely responsible for disbursing it perhaps for others to deal with on the street or elsewhere.
Joe, I'm just pondering the possible purpose of the wood block containing both gun and money. There certainly seems to be a sinister connection between the two. The guy is good at hiding things and he had to do more work to that wood in order to accommodate the gun than he would have for just the money. It seems to me that he had some good reason to do so. Hidden in such a way, it provides little in the way of protection of his home and more importantly, the garage. That's what makes me think it was used elsewhere.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Nov 5, 2008 20:20:41 GMT -5
Michael, Fisch is my man on the street attempting to pass larger quantities and I believe he's the guy described by ticket counterman James McWhan, and who tried to pass $500 in $5 bills at his wicket. Hauptmann on the other hand is more cautious and quite content to pass smaller amounts over time in safer style for living expenses, at the same time reaping the rewards of Fisch's efforts. Especially as is evidenced by the frequency of ransom bills which appeared along their main subway route.
Kevin, yes, I believe there is a connection between Liliput and ransom money based on them both sharing the drilled out wall brace. Agreed, that it's not easily accessible for protection, more for planned aggression. I'm thinking talisman again here and can't really envision that 2 X 4 outside the garage.. where are you thinking here? There is no question this particular weapon has sinister motives due to its size, deadliness and ability to be so easily concealed, per it's origin on the battlefront. And to think Hauptmann actually claimed he used it for hunting; okay well maybe he shot a chipmunk on the California trip and fried it up for dinner.. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on it having possibly been used to coup de grace CALjr as theorized by criminalist, Robert Hicks.
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