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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 9:22:56 GMT -5
Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita, along with their Temple of Divine Power, have always interested me for many reasons. One is the ransom note of March 7 which was mailed to the New York office of Colonel Breckinridge. This note contained references not only to the March 4 ransom note which was received in the Hopewell mail on March 5 but also made connections with the March 6 séance that took place at the Princeton Inn in Princeton New Jersey. Peter and Mary would enter the kidnapping case when, on March 6, 1932, Morris Rosner brought to Colonel Breckinridge's attention a telegram received at the Hopewell house that said: Mrs. Anne Lindbergh Hopewell, New Jersey
Communicate with me at once regarding your boy's whereabouts. For full particulars Telephone Harlem -----
Reverend Peter BirritellaRosner thought Birritella should be contacted so a call was placed and Peter was talked to. Birritella agreed to come to New Jersey that very day, March 6. Breckinridge would write about this encounter afterwards. I am going to post an excerpt from that memorandum which describes this meet up. My thanks go to board member Wayne who had shared this document with me in the past and has allowed me to use it in this post. Please note that the underscoring on this document is mine and does not appear on the original memorandum. imgur.com/Tb7n9OrAs you see in this piece, Breck, along with Rosner, take Peter and Mary to a room that was already occupied by Captain Galvin and Breck's private investigator John Fogarty. So how is it that Galvin and Fogarty already had a room at the Princeton Inn before Breck, Rosner, along with Peter and Mary had ever arrived in Princeton on March 6? Well, it just so happens that Charles Lindbergh had Galvin and Fogarty driven to Princeton Inn in his own car during the evening hours of March 5. This is before the telegram is found by Rosner on March 6. This is before Birritella was ever telephoned, talked to, and said he would come that very same day, March 6, to Princeton New Jersey. Lindbergh already knew on March 5 that Peter and Mary were coming to Princeton, NJ and sent Galvin and Fogarty, in advance, to take a room at Princeton Inn to be ready to receive them on March 6. I offer here, as proof of this advance knowledge by Lindbergh, the police report of NJSP Trooper Maurice B. Connell, Badge #581 of Troop B. It clearly shows Lindbergh's advance preparation for the March 6, 1932 arrival of Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita to Princeton New Jersey. Underscoring in this report regarding March 5, 1932 is mine and is not in the original document. imgur.com/t6UN6e6Lindbergh clearly knew on March 5, 1932 about an event that would take place on March 6, 1932 making advance preparations for it. HOW DID LINDBERGH KNOW?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 13, 2020 14:42:00 GMT -5
Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita, along with their Temple of Divine Power, have always interested me for many reasons. One is the ransom note of March 7 which was mailed to the New York office of Colonel Breckinridge. This note contained references not only to the March 4 ransom note which was received in the Hopewell mail on March 5 but also made connections with the March 6 séance that took place at the Princeton Inn in Princeton New Jersey. Peter and Mary would enter the kidnapping case when, on March 6, 1932, Morris Rosner brought to Colonel Breckinridge's attention a telegram received at the Hopewell house that said: Mrs. Anne Lindbergh Hopewell, New Jersey
Communicate with me at once regarding your boy's whereabouts. For full particulars Telephone Harlem -----
Reverend Peter BirritellaRosner thought Birritella should be contacted so a call was placed and Peter was talked to. Birritella agreed to come to New Jersey that very day, March 6. Breckinridge would write about this encounter afterwards. I am going to post an excerpt from that memorandum which describes this meet up. My thanks go to board member Wayne who had shared this document with me in the past and has allowed me to use it in this post. Please note that the underscoring on this document is mine and does not appear on the original memorandum. imgur.com/Tb7n9OrAs you see in this piece, Breck, along with Rosner, take Peter and Mary to a room that was already occupied by Captain Galvin and Breck's private investigator John Fogarty. So how is it that Galvin and Fogarty already had a room at the Princeton Inn before Breck, Rosner, along with Peter and Mary had ever arrived in Princeton on March 6? Well, it just so happens that Charles Lindbergh had Galvin and Fogarty driven to Princeton Inn in his own car during the evening hours of March 5. This is before the telegram is found by Rosner on March 6. This is before Birritella was ever telephoned, talked to, and said he would come that very same day, March 6, to Princeton New Jersey. Lindbergh already knew on March 5 that Peter and Mary were coming to Princeton, NJ and sent Galvin and Fogarty, in advance, to take a room at Princeton Inn to be ready to receive them on March 6. I offer here, as proof of this advance knowledge by Lindbergh, the police report of NJSP Trooper Maurice B. Connell, Badge #581 of Troop B. It clearly shows Lindbergh's advance preparation for the March 6, 1932 arrival of Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita to Princeton New Jersey. Underscoring in this report regarding March 5, 1932 is mine and is not in the original document. imgur.com/t6UN6e6Lindbergh clearly knew on March 5, 1932 about an event that would take place on March 6, 1932 making advance preparations for it. HOW DID LINDBERGH KNOW? Amy, you appear to be concluding that Lindbergh had advance knowledge that Peter Birritella was going to send the telegram on March 6. Consider this: It's my understanding that Galvin and Fogarty had become incensed over the insertion of Bitz and Spitale at Morris Rosner's request. In fact, they also didn't like Rosner and correctly believed Lindbergh and Breckinridge were being taken by him, so they tried to warn Lindbergh. Rosner got to Lindbergh first to advise him that Galvin and Fogarty were in cahoots with the kidnappers. Lindbergh was not convinced but then regarded Galvin and Fogarty with suspicion. This final straw disgusted the two men and they left Highfields, where they had been staying. Could their resultant departure from the house have taken place on March 5, per Trooper Connell's report when they were driven by him to the nearest accommodation available, that being in Princeton? Breckinridge then set up the meeting with Birritella and Cerrita in Galvin and Fogarty's room at the Princeton Inn the following day. My question is this: Do Galvin and Fogarty even enter into your equation and conclusion here, other than through the fact they were already staying at the Princeton Inn, because of their voluntarily departure from Highfields, and that Breckinridge simply took advantage of the location so he wouldn't have to rent another room?
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Post by Wayne on Feb 13, 2020 16:49:53 GMT -5
Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita, along with their Temple of Divine Power, have always interested me for many reasons. One is the ransom note of March 7 which was mailed to the New York office of Colonel Breckinridge. This note contained references not only to the March 4 ransom note which was received in the Hopewell mail on March 5 but also made connections with the March 6 séance that took place at the Princeton Inn in Princeton New Jersey. Peter and Mary would enter the kidnapping case when, on March 6, 1932, Morris Rosner brought to Colonel Breckinridge's attention a telegram received at the Hopewell house that said: Mrs. Anne Lindbergh Hopewell, New Jersey
Communicate with me at once regarding your boy's whereabouts. For full particulars Telephone Harlem -----
Reverend Peter BirritellaRosner thought Birritella should be contacted so a call was placed and Peter was talked to. Birritella agreed to come to New Jersey that very day, March 6. Breckinridge would write about this encounter afterwards. I am going to post an excerpt from that memorandum which describes this meet up. My thanks go to board member Wayne who had shared this document with me in the past and has allowed me to use it in this post. Please note that the underscoring on this document is mine and does not appear on the original memorandum. imgur.com/Tb7n9OrAs you see in this piece, Breck, along with Rosner, take Peter and Mary to a room that was already occupied by Captain Galvin and Breck's private investigator John Fogarty. So how is it that Galvin and Fogarty already had a room at the Princeton Inn before Breck, Rosner, along with Peter and Mary had ever arrived in Princeton on March 6? Well, it just so happens that Charles Lindbergh had Galvin and Fogarty driven to Princeton Inn in his own car during the evening hours of March 5. This is before the telegram is found by Rosner on March 6. This is before Birritella was ever telephoned, talked to, and said he would come that very same day, March 6, to Princeton New Jersey. Lindbergh already knew on March 5 that Peter and Mary were coming to Princeton, NJ and sent Galvin and Fogarty, in advance, to take a room at Princeton Inn to be ready to receive them on March 6. I offer here, as proof of this advance knowledge by Lindbergh, the police report of NJSP Trooper Maurice B. Connell, Badge #581 of Troop B. It clearly shows Lindbergh's advance preparation for the March 6, 1932 arrival of Peter Birritella and Mary Cerrita to Princeton New Jersey. Underscoring in this report regarding March 5, 1932 is mine and is not in the original document. imgur.com/t6UN6e6Lindbergh clearly knew on March 5, 1932 about an event that would take place on March 6, 1932 making advance preparations for it. HOW DID LINDBERGH KNOW? Consider this: It's my understanding that Galvin and Fogarty had become incensed over the insertion of Bitz and Spitale at Morris Rosner's request. In fact, they also didn't like Rosner and correctly believed Lindbergh and Breckinridge were being taken by him, so they tried to warn Lindbergh. Rosner got to Lindbergh first to advise him that Galvin and Fogarty were in cahoots with the kidnappers. Lindbergh was not convinced but then regarded Galvin and Fogarty with suspicion. This final straw disgusted the two men and they left Highfields, where they had been staying. Joe, Good info! Can you please share all of your Galvin and Fogarty find for the group? Where is this documented? I have Rosner's 239 page manuscript (the one he wrote) and I can't seem to find these claims there. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Wayne on Feb 13, 2020 22:57:11 GMT -5
Hi Amy,
You probably already know this, but the Birritella's held a total of 5 seances relating to the kidnapping:
#1 on Sunday, March 6, 1932.
#2 on April 17 in NY, just Rosner with Peter and Mary.
This one was at the request of Breck; did not reach spirits.
#3 on April 18 in NY, Rosner and Madden.
Mary asked for baby garment. Either this night or the next day, Birritella's wires were tapped.
#4 on April 19 in NY, Rosner and Madden.
Mary could "see" the kidnappers and the location--4.5 miles from Highfields.
#5 on April 20 in Hopewell during day--Rosner and Madden, drove 4.5 mi down two different directions without success.
After this, Mary was "too sick" to meet again despite several requests from Rosner.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 14, 2020 8:54:36 GMT -5
Consider this: It's my understanding that Galvin and Fogarty had become incensed over the insertion of Bitz and Spitale at Morris Rosner's request. In fact, they also didn't like Rosner and correctly believed Lindbergh and Breckinridge were being taken by him, so they tried to warn Lindbergh. Rosner got to Lindbergh first to advise him that Galvin and Fogarty were in cahoots with the kidnappers. Lindbergh was not convinced but then regarded Galvin and Fogarty with suspicion. This final straw disgusted the two men and they left Highfields, where they had been staying. Joe, Good info! Can you please share all of your Galvin and Fogarty find for the group? Where is this documented? I have Rosner's 239 page manuscript (the one he wrote) and I can't seem to find these claims there. Thanks in advance! As I said Wayne, the voluntary departure of Galvin and Fogarty from Highfields is my understanding and I don't recall of the top of my head where I read it. I'm offering it as a possibility towards understanding why the two men ended up at the Princeton Inn the day before Birrittella and Cerrita were requested to go there for their seance. Although I haven't read all of Rosner's manuscript, I somehow doubt he would have included any detail regarding him having falsely accused Galvin and Fogarty of being insiders within the kidnapping. Amy's original post implied that Lindbergh was aware of the incoming telegram from the psychics, and therefore he dispatched Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton. I'm simply offering a potential alternate explanation to be considered towards what really happened. And thank you in advance for any personal efforts you make to explain why this set of circumstances took place!
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Post by Michael on Feb 14, 2020 9:30:08 GMT -5
As I said Wayne, the voluntary departure of Galvin and Fogarty from Highfields is my understanding and I don't recall of the top of my head where I read it. I'm offering it as a possibility towards understanding why the two men ended up at the Princeton Inn the day before Birrittella and Cerrita were requested to go there for their seance. Although I haven't read all of Rosner's manuscript, I somehow doubt he would have included any detail regarding him having falsely accused Galvin and Fogarty of being insiders within the kidnapping. Amy's original post implied that Lindbergh was aware of the incoming telegram from the psychics, and therefore he dispatched Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton. I'm simply offering a potential alternate explanation to be considered towards what really happened. And thank you in advance for any personal efforts you make to explain why this set of circumstances took place! Rosner did believe there was a "mole" in the house and I do believe he accused either (or possibly both) Galvin and Fogarty as being "double agents" or in league with the kidnappers. I am not remembering the source as I sit here. I seem to recall it was part of the reason why he wanted his own line because he didn't trust them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 11:01:11 GMT -5
Amy's original post implied that Lindbergh was aware of the incoming telegram from the psychics, and therefore he dispatched Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton. The fact is that Lindbergh did have Galvin and Fogarty taken to Princeton Inn the night before (March 5)of the arrival of (March 6) the telegram from Birritella and then his arrival with Mary Cerrita in Princeton New Jersey the same day. Peter and Mary's tickets to Princeton were bought for them in advance. They did not buy them. They were provided. This is made very clear in Breckinridge's Séance Memorandum where Peter states that "they bought us round trip tickets to Princeton Junction."This whole Birritella/Cerrita incident was planned in advance. I stand by what I posted. Lindbergh planned in advance on his end also to receive them, sending Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton Inn the evening hours of March 5 in order to have a room available to take Peter and Mary to once they arrived at Princeton Junction. Wayne is very correct that there is no mention by Rosner in his lengthy manuscript that Galvin and Fogarty were angry about anything. You will read in that very manuscript where Rosner talks about the very presence of Galvin at Highfields on March 7, the day after you are speculating they left in a huff. It didn't happen, Joe. If what I showed with the documentation I provided is not correct, then please show me with documentation how it is not correct. Otherwise, I stand by what my original post claims.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 14, 2020 11:40:14 GMT -5
Amy's original post implied that Lindbergh was aware of the incoming telegram from the psychics, and therefore he dispatched Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton. The fact is that Lindbergh did have Galvin and Fogarty taken to Princeton Inn the night before (March 5)of the arrival of (March 6) the telegram from Birritella and then his arrival with Mary Cerrita in Princeton New Jersey the same day. Peter and Mary's tickets to Princeton were bought for them in advance. They did not buy them. They were provided. This is made very clear in Breckinridge's Séance Memorandum where Peter states that "they bought us round trip tickets to Princeton Junction."This whole Birritella/Cerrita incident was planned in advance. I stand by what I posted. Lindbergh planned in advance on his end also to receive them, sending Galvin and Fogarty to Princeton Inn the evening hours of March 5 in order to have a room available to take Peter and Mary to once they arrived at Princeton Junction. Wayne is very correct that there is no mention by Rosner in his lengthy manuscript that Galvin and Fogarty were angry about anything. You will read in that very manuscript where Rosner talks about the very presence of Galvin at Highfields on March 7, the day after you are speculating they left in a huff. It didn't happen, Joe. If what I showed with the documentation I provided is not correct, then please show me with documentation how it is not correct. Otherwise, I stand by what my original post claims. Why would Birrittella have sent a telegram on March 6, if it was previously known within the inner circle he had a message for Lindbergh? This is starting to smell like Rosner having contacted Birrittella and company or vice-versa prior to March 6, and Rosner subsequently asking them to send a telegram to Highfields to make it look unsolicited. Witness Rosner's five seance sessions with B & C provided by Wayne, and what sounds like a bit of a fascination with the realm of spiritualism. Rosner and company paying for advance round trip tickets to Princeton would certainly make sense in the above light. In any case Amy, I'm only suggesting further possibilities to bring this to ground, while you're taking this rigid, one-dimensional stance. If anything, I'd be looking for information on Rosner and the subject of spiritualism.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 12:40:33 GMT -5
Why would Birrittella have sent a telegram on March 6, if it was previously known within the inner circle he had a message for Lindbergh? The telegram was necessary to provide the needed invitation to come to New Jersey. He already had the tickets. I agree that it was supposed to appear unsolicited. You provide an interesting thought that it was Rosner who was the behind the scene manipulator of this meeting. I would be willing to entertain that thought if Rosner's manuscript didn't show otherwise. I was aware of the other seances. Please keep in mind the dates that these all occur. Rosner's position within the "inner circle" faded quickly after "Dr. Stice" came into the picture. He realized this and tried to work angles that would put him back into the game. At the time these other seances occurred, the ransom money was already paid and circulating. Since Charlie had not been returned after the ransom was paid, Rosner, who must have really believed in Peter and Mary, was apparently hoping he might learn from them where Charlie was. As you can see from Wayne's post, they broke off contact with Rosner. I understand, Joe. My position is not really rigid. It is firm, at this time, because that is what the documents show. I am looking at the police reports to see if this action by Lindbergh is repeated anywhere else in the reports. I have not found anything yet but I would not be against posting it if I should find something. If you can provide factual documents that show otherwise concerning Lindbergh's actions in this event, I would definitely want to see them.
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Post by lurp173 on Feb 14, 2020 15:45:02 GMT -5
Amy, if I am understading you correctly (and of course I may be misunderstanding you) I see things a little differently in regards to Trooper Connell's statement as to his activities on March 5th. I don't see where anything happened in regards to Birrittella or Galvin/Fogarty until the "wee" morning hours of March 6th. In his statement Trooper Connell says that he arrived at Highfields on March 5th at 6 P.M. and did telephone duty until MIDNIGHT. That would be midnight on March 5th. He says he was then detailed (this would be sometime AFTER 12:01 A.M. of the 6th) to drive to Trenton to deliver Lindbergh's statement. He said that it was a trip of 45 miles, so even if he left at 12:01 A.M. (again, this is now the 6th), he might have made it back to Highfields by maybe 2 A.M. or so. He states that he is then detailed to drive Galvin and Fogarty to the Princeton Inn which was a 40 mile trip. So he is taking these two individuals to Princeton probably around 2 A.M or 3 A.M. on the 6th. Trooper Connell then says he returned to Highfilds from Princeton and was back on telephone duty until 8 A.M. His duty shift was from 6P.M.on the 5TH to 8 A.M. on the 6TH. His trip to Princeton was clearly in the time frame of 2 A.M..to maybe 5 or 6 A.M. on the 6TH.
Meanwhile, acording to Thomas Fensch's TOP SECRET, FBI FILES book on page 196, it is related that Breckinridge, Rosner, Spitale, Bitz and Berto (that's quite a crew to say the least!!) arrived at Highfields around midmight of the 5th.(at the time Trooper Connell was getting off of telephone duty and about to go to Trenton). This book says that Rosner and Thayer answered the phones thoughout the morning hours (which would be from 12:01 A.M, on the 6th). Trooper Connell was no longer on telephone duty as he was traveling to Trenton at this point. The book relates on page 197 that Rosner receives the telegram from Berrittella in the morning hours of the 6th. Unfortunately I can not find any source that gives the exact time that this telegram hit Highfields. Would you know what time it came in? Is it possible that it came in prior to Trooper Connell's trip to Princeton with Galvin and Fogarty? If so, could a quick decision have been made by Lindbergh and Breckinridge to get Birrittella and Cirrito to Princeton for an interview, not wanting to have them at Highfields until their info was evaluated? Thus dispatching Galvin and Fogarty immediately to Princeton to get a room for the interview. This scenerio of course depends on when (on the 6th) this telegram was received by Rosner at Highfields.
Also in the above book on page 38 it states that on March 6th (time again not stated) that Rosner privately informed Thayer that Galvin and Fogarty were "in league" with the kidnappers. It says that this statement by Rosner led Thayer to believe that Rosner was becoming "mentally unbalanced" or that he (Rosner) had some fradulent intent.
Sorry for the long post, and please correct me if I am not seeing this correctly.
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Post by Joe on Feb 14, 2020 19:09:30 GMT -5
Amy, if I am understading you correctly (and of course I may be misunderstanding you) I see things a little differently in regards to Trooper Connell's statement as to his activities on March 5th. I don't see where anything happened in regards to Birrittella or Galvin/Fogarty until the "wee" morning hours of March 6th. In his statement Trooper Connell says that he arrived at Highfields on March 5th at 6 P.M. and did telephone duty until MIDNIGHT. That would be midnight on March 5th. He says he was then detailed (this would be sometime AFTER 12:01 A.M. of the 6th) to drive to Trenton to deliver Lindbergh's statement. He said that it was a trip of 45 miles, so even if he left at 12:01 A.M. (again, this is now the 6th), he might have made it back to Highfields by maybe 2 A.M. or so. He states that he is then detailed to drive Galvin and Fogarty to the Princeton Inn which was a 40 mile trip. So he is taking these two individuals to Princeton probably around 2 A.M or 3 A.M. on the 6th. Trooper Connell then says he returned to Highfilds from Princeton and was back on telephone duty until 8 A.M. His duty shift was from 6P.M.on the 5TH to 8 A.M. on the 6TH. His trip to Princeton was clearly in the time frame of 2 A.M..to maybe 5 or 6 A.M. on the 6TH. Meanwhile, acording to Thomas Fensch's TOP SECRET, FBI FILES book on page 196, it is related that Breckinridge, Rosner, Spitale, Bitz and Berto (that's quite a crew to say the least!!) arrived at Highfields around midmight of the 5th.(at the time Trooper Connell was getting off of telephone duty and about to go to Trenton). This book says that Rosner and Thayer answered the phones thoughout the morning hours (which would be from 12:01 A.M, on the 6th). Trooper Connell was no longer on telephone duty as he was traveling to Trenton at this point. The book relates on page 197 that Rosner receives the telegram from Berrittella in the morning hours of the 6th. Unfortunately I can not find any source that gives the exact time that this telegram hit Highfields. Would you know what time it came in? Is it possible that it came in prior to Trooper Connell's trip to Princeton with Galvin and Fogarty? If so, could a quick decision have been made by Lindbergh and Breckinridge to get Birrittella and Cirrito to Princeton for an interview, not wanting to have them at Highfields until their info was evaluated? Thus dispatching Galvin and Fogarty immediately to Princeton to get a room for the interview. This scenerio of course depends on when (on the 6th) this telegram was received by Rosner at Highfields. Also in the above book on page 38 it states that on March 6th (time again not stated) that Rosner privately informed Thayer that Galvin and Fogarty were "in league" with the kidnappers. It says that this statement by Rosner led Thayer to believe that Rosner was becoming "mentally unbalanced" or that he (Rosner) had some fradulent intent. Sorry for the long post, and please correct me if I am not seeing this correctly. Lurp, here's a copy of the telegram sent by Rev. Birrittella to the attention of Anne Lindbergh at 12:21 pm, or just after noon on March 6. It appears Galvin and Fogarty's departure with Trooper Connell for Princeton, occurred prior to the telegram having arrived, however I'm still very suspicious of Rosner's motives here, because of his background and track record. I wouldn't bet the farm on it but I feel strongly he had had previous contact with Birrittella, in the hope he might be able to score a major coup with Lindbergh and perhaps knew that Lindbergh himself was not averse to entertaining spiritually-related phenomena beyond the realm of the five senses. The pre-arranged train trip for Birrittella and Cerrita might also be explained by someone like Rosner having contacted them previously. And yes, there seems to be a theme developing here that Galvin and Fogarty had become "on the outs" with Lindbergh and that their time at Highfields was running short due to their personal feelings about having been labelled by Rosner as kidnapping collaborators.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 14, 2020 19:32:14 GMT -5
I understand Amy, and apologize if I seem to get a bit cranky from time to time.. it's absolutely not personal. I do have to say though that my seemingly-opposite reaction comes entirely natural at times towards what I often see as attempts, intentional or not here, to press speculation or things that would never pass the bar in an honestly-due legal process, into fact. As an example, the belief that Condon was a confederate of the kidnappers, which now seems to have been accepted as fact here on this board, is probably number one on my list as the most questionable.
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Post by lurp173 on Feb 14, 2020 20:58:38 GMT -5
Thanks greatly Joe. I knew that either you, Michael or Amy would know the exact time of the Birrittella telegram. I am surprised that it arrived that late on the 6th when everything that I have read says Birrittella telephoned around 2 P.M. and said that he was in Princeton. He and Cirrrito certainly arrived very quickly in Princeton from the time of sending the telegram. I do think that one needs to determine the circumstances of why Gavin and Fogarty left Highfields and went to the Princeton Inn at 3 A,M or so in the morning hours of the 6th. If Rosner made the allegations against those two on the 6th as presented in Fensch's book TOP SECRET: FBI FILES, was it that early on the 6th and did it prompt Gavin and Fogarty to leave in a huff or Lindbergh to believe Rosner and send them away from Highfields?. Do you know what became of Gavin's and Fogarty's involvement in the case immediately after the 6th? Did they return to Highfields on the 7th after the Princeton Inn room was used for the Birrittella/Cirrito interview or were they "outcasts" after Rosners allegations on the 6th? Thanks.
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Post by Joe on Feb 15, 2020 10:05:14 GMT -5
Thanks greatly Joe. I knew that either you, Michael or Amy would know the exact time of the Birrittella telegram. I am surprised that it arrived that late on the 6th when everything that I have read says Birrittella telephoned around 2 P.M. and said that he was in Princeton. He and Cirrrito certainly arrived very quickly in Princeton from the time of sending the telegram. I do think that one needs to determine the circumstances of why Gavin and Fogarty left Highfields and went to the Princeton Inn at 3 A,M or so in the morning hours of the 6th. If Rosner made the allegations against those two on the 6th as presented in Fensch's book TOP SECRET: FBI FILES, was it that early on the 6th and did it prompt Gavin and Fogarty to leave in a huff or Lindbergh to believe Rosner and send them away from Highfields?. Do you know what became of Gavin's and Fogarty's involvement in the case immediately after the 6th? Did they return to Highfields on the 7th after the Princeton Inn room was used for the Birrittella/Cirrito interview or were they "outcasts" after Rosners allegations on the 6th? Thanks. Lurp, I'm not aware of the details around Galvin and Fogarty's stay at Highfields, but Amy in a previous post, indicates they were there on March 7, the day after the first seance in Princeton. Although I'm not sure of Joyce Milton's source for this account, here is something I re-rediscovered in her book, "Loss of Eden": "While Breckinridge was in Princeton, Galvin and Fogarty decided to seize their opportunity to talk some sense into Colonel Lindbergh. Rosner, however, got wind of the plan and got to Lindbergh first. Summoning the Colonel and Bob Thayer to "his" office, he announced that his gangland sources had just relayed a warning that the kidnappers had two confederates who were actually living inside the house. The accomplices were none other than Bill Galvin and John Fogarty! Even Thayer, so far Rosner's chief supporter, found this too much to believe. But Lindbergh eyed Galvin and Fogarty warily and seemed half-convinced of their guilt. Disgusted, the two men packed their belongings and left the house."If the above scenario is accurate, it means Galvin and Fogarty had returned to Highfields by March 6th, the day of the first Princeton seance. Which makes it appear more likely that their having been sent to Princeton was for the very purpose of setting up a room at the Princeton Inn for the following day's seance. It appears they were then driven back to Highfields sometime on March 5th or 6th. With Breckinridge was in Princeton, they would have had unfettered access directly to Lindbergh to advise him they felt Rosner and his cronies were deceiving him. When Rosner got to Lindbergh first and told him Galvin and Fogarty were kidnapper confederates, it would seem the wheels were then set in motion for the two men to have eventually left Highfields voluntarily, sometime on March 7th or afterwards. More and more, I see Rosner's upfront involvement here in coordinating with Breckinridge and Lindbergh, the involvement of Birrittella and Cerrita in advance, with Birrittella then sending the telegram to the attention of Anne Lindbergh on March 6th. Rosner would probably have known shortly after his entry into the case that the underworld was not involved and he had nothing to offer, but being the shady character he was, wanted to extend his welcome as emissary to Lindbergh, for obvious reasons. If, by a significant longshot, Birrittella and Cerrita were able to assist in locating the child or kidnappers, Rosner knew he stood a good chance at being heralded as someone who helped to break the case, which would have brought him kudos not only from the public but also the underworld. My read anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 21:39:50 GMT -5
I understand Amy, and apologize if I seem to get a bit cranky from time to time.. it's absolutely not personal. I do have to say though that my seemingly-opposite reaction comes entirely natural at times towards what I often see as attempts, intentional or not here, to press speculation or things that would never pass the bar in an honestly-due legal process, into fact. As an example, the belief that Condon was a confederate of the kidnappers, which now seems to have been accepted as fact here on this board, is probably number one on my list as the most questionable. Its all good, Joe. Feelings run deep with many people concerning characters and events in this case. What really counts is that important things are shared and learned even when there is head-butting going on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 21:52:42 GMT -5
Amy, Wayne, Joe, Michael, wasn't Charlie found 4.5 miles from Highfields?? How would she know that if she/they were not involved. But then that would mean Charlie's body was there earlier than we think? I am getting confused! 🐈 Mary Cerrita's original claim was that Charlie was 4.5 miles northwest of the Lindbergh house. Charlie was actually found about that distance but southeast of the Lindbergh house. If Mary Cerrita is to be believed about the northwest location then could it mean that Charlie was moved to the Mount Rose location from the northwest location so the body could be discovered?
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Post by stella7 on Feb 16, 2020 4:40:55 GMT -5
Southeast Mostly south a little east about 9 miles
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 11:08:51 GMT -5
Lurp, I'm not aware of the details around Galvin and Fogarty's stay at Highfields, but Amy in a previous post, indicates they were there on March 7, the day after the first seance in Princeton. Rosner's manuscript is helpful in placing people at Highfields. Galvin is definitely mentioned as being present at the Highfields house on March 7 by Rosner. Rosner tells how he, Breckinridge and Galvin went back to Princeton on March 7 to meet Breckinridge's New York office associate, James Phelan, who was bringing down the ransom note that arrived at Breck's office on March 7. What I have also learned is that Fogarty did have a room at the Princeton Inn but rarely stayed in it. I will post the article I found here. Do I think it voids my original post. No, I do not. Lindbergh knew March 5 Birritella would be arriving from New York and made sure Fogarty and Galvin were in place at the Princeton Inn to received them instead of sleeping at the Highfield house.
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Post by lurp173 on Feb 17, 2020 14:18:11 GMT -5
Amy, why do you say that Lindbergh knew on the 5th that Birritella was coming to Princeton to be interviewed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 15:50:41 GMT -5
Amy, why do you say that Lindbergh knew on the 5th that Birritella was coming to Princeton to be interviewed. I think that Lindbergh had been tipped off in the late evening hours of March 5 that the Reverend Birritella would be coming to Princeton (those tickets were bought in advance for them) and when Trooper Connell returned from Trenton and was available once again, Lindbergh requested that Trooper Connell take Fogarty and Galvin to Princeton Inn so they would be in place when Peter and Mary arrived. Lindbergh did not want them brought to Highfields. That is why he sent Fogarty and Galvin there in advance. Please keep in mind that the ransom note that was mailed to Breck at his New York office arriving March 7 refers to things that came out of this séance. This is a note from the kidnappers. Peter and Mary were being used by the kidnappers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 15:59:37 GMT -5
I think I need to add here that it was actually Breckinridge that pulled that telegram out of all the many that were arriving daily at Highfields so he was checking for it. That tells me they knew the night before that it was coming just not what time exactly so Galvin and Fogarty are sent in the overnight hours to Princeton Inn to be ready when needed.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 17, 2020 16:01:13 GMT -5
I understand Amy, and apologize if I seem to get a bit cranky from time to time.. it's absolutely not personal. I do have to say though that my seemingly-opposite reaction comes entirely natural at times towards what I often see as attempts, intentional or not here, to press speculation or things that would never pass the bar in an honestly-due legal process, into fact. As an example, the belief that Condon was a confederate of the kidnappers, which now seems to have been accepted as fact here on this board, is probably number one on my list as the most questionable. Its all good, Joe. Feelings run deep with many people concerning characters and events in this case. What really counts is that important things are shared and learned even when there is head-butting going on. Amy, this really has nothing to do with personal feelings towards any of the characters or events in this case. I can promise you in my case, they are neutral, no matter how they've been interpreted in the past. My concern has been and continues to be the way in which things, both factual and unproven, are shaped together and often force-fit to form conclusions, which are then repeated down the road as now-factual. I'm not pinning this on anyone in particular, and I continue to appreciate the great depth of research that's been generated on this board for many years. The very fact that this is essentially the only surviving and flourishing forum on the LKC, I feel is for good reason. And yes, as you say, we all learn, no matter how things are presented and at what perceived emotional level. We all shape the progress here and I feel it's important to mention this from time to time.
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