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Post by Michael on Aug 2, 2010 19:36:17 GMT -5
Awesome Steve! I've never met Rich and haven't seen Ronelle in a very long time. Last time I saw you and Sue was in Hopewell that time with Mike & Gary! Gary: I agree those footprints are yet another piece of evidence to suggest more then one person was involved. Many Police believed multiple people were involved. Some were convinced there was a local element to the crime as well: Police Chief Clifford Snook, of Hopewell Township, a community to the east of this town, contributes a theory about the Lindbergh kidnaping.
As he expressed it tonight, he feels that the kidnap plot could not have been carried out without the assistance of some of the people living in the vicinity of the Lindbergh estate. Some one, he reasons, must have had detailed knowledge about the hilly terrain, or a speedy getaway could not have been accomplished. [AP - March 14, 1932]
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Post by Michael on Aug 5, 2010 20:23:32 GMT -5
The public was asked to believe, by the police, that this shiny thumb guard had remained there for a month without being seen until the two Lindbergh employees, returning from the gate, had together spied it. There were new and embarrassing questions. The reports of the police officers first on the scene were that the "two sets of fresh footprints" had led off in an entirely different direction - the direction presumed to have been taken by the kidnapers to the waiting car. "How come" that the important thumb guard had been missed by the ferreting police? "How come" that the kidnapers went in one direction and the thumb guard, dropped from the child they were carrying, was found in another? Or had a certain Bronx carpenter, then unknown to the investigators, been prompted by a grim sense of humor to slip down to Hopewell some dark night to drop the thumb guard, in order to confuse and mystify the police? [Hoffman, Rough Draft Liberty Manuscript, p85]
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 5, 2010 21:38:50 GMT -5
gov hoffman blowing smoke again. when he protected his buddy ellis parker after the wendel farce i have no respect for him
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Post by Michael on Aug 6, 2010 18:53:15 GMT -5
So what about this isn't true?
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Post by gary on Aug 6, 2010 23:22:33 GMT -5
Thank you Michael. Its almost to the word how I feel .
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Post by jack7 on Aug 9, 2010 7:32:57 GMT -5
Jones thought the thumbguard was a Lindbergh joke, and if you think about it that makes as much sense as anything. It kept the story on the front page a while longer - same as CAL's crusing on boats did - was Charles the ultimate glory seeker? Why not send someone else to deliver the money - hey, easily a person could get shot - no witnesses. But CAL is bravely all over the news as the guy who cares so much about his kid that he has to do it - even if it doesn't add up. The more the crime is looked at the more it seems Charles is demented or involved.
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Post by Michael on Aug 10, 2010 5:47:04 GMT -5
Jack: He's different - very different. But one may get confused as to who he was vs. who he was portrayed to be in the papers.
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Post by gary on Aug 10, 2010 8:30:02 GMT -5
Jack, Do you think Lindbergh was involved? I admit in the very beginning of my interest in the case I thought he may have been.
If one says Hauptmann did it, as the facts seem to indicate how can we speculate Lindbergh involvement? Especially when Lindbergh sent him to the chair by his testimony?
What haunts me still is the crime scene itself. It appears cleaned up and wiped down even to point you wonder if it went to the outdoors. Was this because they couldn't pick up prints because they were inept or because they were not there?
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Post by jack7 on Aug 10, 2010 13:46:53 GMT -5
Gary: The more I (and others) look into it the more CAL looks suspicious. We are just supposed to be stupid - and I believe that he and Anne thought the rest of the world was. They spoke of "them" which was a big outside of their world out to get 'em. Well, of course we know that's not actually a truth, but it's what they thought and perceived which matters. The supposedly logical Lindbergh does not even come close to logic regarding his actions about the kidnapping. You can take almost (perhaps all) points regarding the crime and CAL upgoofs them. Just a couple good examples, why would he go himself to deliver the money? There were tons of people around including unknown detectives who could have done it. Why involve the Mafia or bad street gangs? Sounds very like a stall. You seem pretty perceptive about this stuff - the crime has been looked at for so long that it will never be figured out for sure, but it would be nice if you could post some new ideas.
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 10, 2010 14:14:23 GMT -5
but jack theres no concrete evidence that lindbergh was involved. mrs hauptmann attorney didnt believe it. i heard him say that in person
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Post by Michael on Aug 10, 2010 18:14:13 GMT -5
Which Attorney?
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 10, 2010 19:16:40 GMT -5
ROBERT BRYAN. HE WAS IN MY BED AND BREAKFAST AT THE FLEMINGTON LINDBERGH KIDNAPPING SYMPOSIUM.
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Post by Michael on Aug 11, 2010 5:58:21 GMT -5
Bryan spent a lot of time on this. I'd like to know who his suspect was because I know he has one.
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Post by jack7 on Aug 11, 2010 18:16:21 GMT -5
Mrs. Hauptmann's attorney didn't believe what? Her attorney, Bryan if that is the one you're speaking of Wolf haha - anyway he created her into a laughingstock - she would have been much better just laying low - you notice her kid did.
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 11, 2010 20:04:19 GMT -5
yes robert bryan said that. i dont think he made her a laughing stock. he made his case and it crumbled. the good thing is he forced the police documents to be open to the public
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Post by Michael on Aug 12, 2010 6:10:23 GMT -5
I don't think he made anyone a laughing stock. He pushed it as far as he could for many years. I've never seen so many amended complaints in my life. He must have spent a fortune doing it.
He didn't lose on merit only on technicality.
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Post by jack7 on Aug 12, 2010 13:49:53 GMT -5
I had a long diatribe about this that got dumped and I'm not doing it again - you guys just can't see the forest because of the trees. Mrs. Hauptmann may have looked heartily to you in aftercongectinon, but at the time she was considered a freak and Bryan jerk led her around like a puppy - if you two think she had any status, you're probably the only ones.
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 12, 2010 20:21:54 GMT -5
JACK, I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO ANSWER THIS. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATUS
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Post by jack7 on Aug 13, 2010 3:20:56 GMT -5
I know you're cool Wolf (nada about you) , I'm saying anyone who sticks up for Bryan (and you know who does that) is an idiot. He made a total joke out of her. Her kid never spoke ever anything about the crime - all OK. But Bryan leads her on to an absolutely no win mission - and what's gonna happen? So it did.
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Post by jack7 on Aug 13, 2010 3:32:26 GMT -5
Can I post that three times?
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Post by Michael on Aug 13, 2010 17:54:59 GMT -5
Guess that makes me an "idiot."
I don't have any evidence he made Mrs. Hauptmann look stupid. If you have something to offer me for consideration then please by all means do so.
For example, assuming you read it, what about his 5th Amended Complaint which he filed on 11-30-83 do you think makes her look badly?
On this matter, he starts the ball rolling on 10-14-81 and he relentlessly pursues Mrs. Hauptmann's cause until he cannot go any further on 9-23-87. Motion after motion, amended complaint after amended complaint, affidavit after affidavit....
I don't care if he represents that murderer Mumia. It's got nothing to do with this case. What I see on behalf of Mrs. Hauptmann's efforts to clear her husband's name was a tireless effort which had to cost him personally a ton of money.
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Post by gary on Aug 13, 2010 21:26:01 GMT -5
Didn't Bryan leave things hanging? I kind of recall he was going to give startling information and never followed up on it. In my mind not looking at the specific details of that time it was to me her statement that she stood by him and his innocence beyond the grave. Perhaps when Jack was around at that time the initial response was a sad cry. Time can change things.
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Post by Michael on Aug 14, 2010 9:58:30 GMT -5
I remember reading some newspaper articles where he said he was going to announce who was involved. I believe he planned a book.
But to this day I have never seen anything officially. I've always had an idea who he thought was involved but its pure speculation on my part.
A lot of what he worked on would come out in Kennedy's book. So I don't know if this information was shared or arrived at independently.
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 14, 2010 11:03:00 GMT -5
he was suppose to have written it in 1996. i was eating dinner with him, jim fisher and noel behn
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Post by jack7 on Aug 14, 2010 11:48:33 GMT -5
Gawd - I feared I was a name-dropper when I mentioned Carol Burnett.
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Post by jack7 on Aug 15, 2010 7:01:08 GMT -5
Thanks for not trouncing me Michael - I'll be good. But hey I fell into this cactus - and you would not believe how horror that is!
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Post by Michael on Aug 15, 2010 10:18:23 GMT -5
Jack,
I've heard what you said before about him AND Scaduto. I just have never seen anything to base either accusation on. I know that Bryan protected Mrs. Hauptmann by limiting access to her by people. HRO for one. But while I can see that pis$ing people off I don't see how that applies to the overall negitivity that he made her a "laughing stock" or whatever.
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Post by gary on Aug 15, 2010 16:29:04 GMT -5
Yeah I wish Bryan would have at least finished with some parting thoughts. Michael what did you hear was his thoughts? What did you think he was going to speculate about?
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Post by jack7 on Aug 16, 2010 17:32:38 GMT -5
As I recall Bryan said he had new information and never came up with anything. Perhaps Michael knows differently. Seems Bryan was pretty much of a grandstander.
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Post by wolf2 on Aug 16, 2010 21:47:11 GMT -5
when i met him we talked about the case. it was the time moniers garbage book came out. he told me he sees no evidence that lindbergh did it. i agreed with him. i didnt think he was a grandstander. i nice guy.
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