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Post by skeptical on Dec 11, 2022 11:53:56 GMT -5
I’ve finished The Kidnap Years, by David Stout, and I have an even worse problem trying to keep an open mind Lindy himself was complicit or arranged Charlie’s kidnapping, than before.
Before the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped there was an epidemic of kidnappings for ransom in the United States, and the usual ending was the victim was returned alive and unharmed, especially if the ransom was paid.
If I had Lindbergh’s money and fame, I’d have played it about the same way myself.
The reason fathers don’t take over a police investigation is that except for a Lindbergh grade hero, they simply can’t.
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Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,653
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Post by Joe on Dec 11, 2022 12:10:16 GMT -5
I’ve finished The Kidnap Years, by David Stout, and I have an even worse problem trying to keep an open mind Lindy himself was complicit or arranged Charlie’s kidnapping, than before. Before the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped there was an epidemic of kidnappings for ransom in the United States, and the usual ending was the victim was returned alive and unharmed, especially if the ransom was paid. If I had Lindbergh’s money and fame, I’d have played it about the same way myself. The reason fathers don’t take over a police investigation is that except for a Lindbergh grade hero, they simply can’t. It's a very common misconception, especially here at this discussion board, that Lindbergh "took over the investigation." He didn't. Between March 1 and May 12, 1932, he was allowed to proceed without police interference towards the safe recovery of his son, which he felt would be accomplished if he played "square" with the kidnapper(s). Towards that end and only wherever he felt it was necessary, he directed police to keep their activities at a distance from the plans of his own inner circle.
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Post by skeptical on Dec 11, 2022 15:24:22 GMT -5
It's a very common misconception, especially here at this discussion board, that Lindbergh "took over the investigation." He didn't. Between March 1 and May 12, 1932, he was allowed to proceed without police interference towards the safe recovery of his son, which he felt would be accomplished if he played "square" with the kidnapper(s). Towards that end and only wherever he felt it was necessary, he directed police to keep their activities at a distance from the plans of his own inner circle.
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And let’s add Lindy was a eugenist, Jafsie was a braggart, J Edgar Hoover was an egotist, and that somehow all adds up to a conspiracy by Lindy against Charlie.
Chapter 16 in The Kidnap Years about how wood expert Arthur Koehler tracked down the exact mill where Hauptmann’s attic boards were made and the very Brooklyn lumber yard that sold the boards to Hauptmann still puts a noose around his neck today as it did then.
In today’s world where conspiracy theories are labeled alternative facts, the truth still matters.
Hauptmann not only had the ransom money he made that ladder using boards from his garage attic.
Which means he deserved the chair.
How he did it, and who might have helped him, is the riddle.
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Post by Michael on Dec 11, 2022 18:17:17 GMT -5
I’ve finished The Kidnap Years, by David Stout, and I have an even worse problem trying to keep an open mind Lindy himself was complicit or arranged Charlie’s kidnapping, than before. Before the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped there was an epidemic of kidnappings for ransom in the United States, and the usual ending was the victim was returned alive and unharmed, especially if the ransom was paid. If I had Lindbergh’s money and fame, I’d have played it about the same way myself. The reason fathers don’t take over a police investigation is that except for a Lindbergh grade hero, they simply can’t. With all due respect, by this logic, with all the hate crimes out there, Smollett must actually be a victim and should be exonerated. And for anyone who likes to throw around the term "conspiracy theory," well, there's your conspiracy and it is no theory. Next, what father would actually want to take over the investigation nowadays? Know more - yes. Run the investigation - no. It's a very common misconception, especially here at this discussion board, that Lindbergh "took over the investigation." He didn't. Between March 1 and May 12, 1932, he was allowed to proceed without police interference towards the safe recovery of his son, which he felt would be accomplished if he played "square" with the kidnapper(s). Towards that end and only wherever he felt it was necessary, he directed police to keep their activities at a distance from the plans of his own inner circle. Not a misconception. I've listed examples but you must have forgotten them already. Lindbergh had veto power over everything up and until the body was discovered. Even after, the police were still careful not to, as they put it, "embarrass" the family. Look at Violet Sharp's last interrogation. Who was there in the room? Lindbergh. And that was in June. Once Sharp killed herself, who was in her room "searching" before police got there and "finding" the poison? Again Lindbergh.
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Post by IloveDFW on Dec 12, 2022 19:19:31 GMT -5
I’ve finished The Kidnap Years, by David Stout, and I have an even worse problem trying to keep an open mind Lindy himself was complicit or arranged Charlie’s kidnapping, than before. Before the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped there was an epidemic of kidnappings for ransom in the United States, and the usual ending was the victim was returned alive and unharmed, especially if the ransom was paid. If I had Lindbergh’s money and fame, I’d have played it about the same way myself. The reason fathers don’t take over a police investigation is that except for a Lindbergh grade hero, they simply can’t. About two weeks after Charlie's kidnapping, another wealthy family just a few miles away almost had their daughter taken from her second story nursery. Luckily her nurse woke up because of the noise and was able to save the baby. It was a guy who had robbed the house a month previously. Michael, do you remember the name of the family?
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Post by Sue on Dec 12, 2022 23:14:50 GMT -5
iloveDFW,
Are you thinking of the attempted kidnapping at the estate of J. Seward Johnson, a few weeks after the Lindbergh kidnapping?
The Johnson estate was called Merriewold, and was located in Highland Park, New Jersey.
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Post by Michael on Dec 13, 2022 10:32:25 GMT -5
There were so many cases that I sometimes forget about them. Sue mentioned the Johnson case, which was the first to come to me, but I recall a security guard stopped it. I've got something on it that I could look up but I remember a security guard took a shot at him and I believe police ultimately determined he was looking to rob the place not steal the child.
Another case was the Claude Anderson attempted kidnapping in Riverton on March 12. He claimed he had been awakened by a noise, went to check on the child and caught a man lifting him out of his crib. A fight ensued but the man got away. Anderson had a dog that did not bark but claimed it had been "dopey" all day insinuating he had been drugged. He leveled his suspicion at a former employee who was supposed to still have keys to his home. Police reported there was no sign of a struggle where Anderson reported there had been this fight for the child. What I have gave me the impression police were suspicious of this account but I've never pursued it and don't know much more.
This other case might be it... This happened in Wayne, PA in December of 1932 though. This was the attempted kidnapping of John Master's two year old son. A maid was downstairs reading when a dog, who was sleeping near the nursery door, did what dogs do. When one of the kidnappers used a ladder from the garage to climb to the 2nd story window, they pried open the locked screen, and the dog barked alerting the maid. She ran to the nursery, picked up the child, then ran downstairs and called the police.
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Post by skeptical on Dec 14, 2022 0:15:13 GMT -5
As pointed out in the book, there was no federal law against kidnapping until after the Lindbergh case.
Local police forces were often corrupt, incompetent, and the object of the epidemic of kidnappings was nearly always only money, from wealthy people who could and did pay the ransom, to get their loved ones back home.
There is no present couple today as famous as Colonel Lindbergh and Ann were then. The closest might be Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, or once upon a time Richard Burton and Liz Taylor.
If BRH had returned Charlie to Jafsie in the cemetery the case may never had been solved.
It was the shocking murder that had every bank clerk checking bills.
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Post by IloveDFW on Dec 19, 2022 17:47:07 GMT -5
iloveDFW, Are you thinking of the attempted kidnapping at the estate of J. Seward Johnson, a few weeks after the Lindbergh kidnapping? The Johnson estate was called Merriewold, and was located in Highland Park, New Jersey. Yes, Sue! Should have known you would have the answer...thanks!!
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