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Post by stella7 on Dec 29, 2014 12:59:40 GMT -5
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 29, 2014 14:54:43 GMT -5
To stella7:
Would be interesting to show on the map (1) the location where the child's body was found and (2) the town of Flemington, where the "trial of the century" was held, both in relation to Highfields.
Can anyone comment on the geographic issue raised by the defense at the Hauptmann trial. IIRC, it was argued that since the prosecution's theory was that the baby was killed right at Highfields, which was in Somerset County, the venue for the trial should not be in Hunterdon County, but rather Somerset. Apparently, that defense motion for a change in venue was denied. Would anyone have the documents re the judge's ruling on the defense's change of venue motion?
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Post by stella7 on Dec 29, 2014 15:20:04 GMT -5
Highfields is in Mercer County, but I've always wondered that myself. Why was the trial held in Flemington? If I ever figure out how to use my scanner I'll add some road names and other notable places that we've talked about. But don't hold your breath! This just happens to be a map I found while looking up something else.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 29, 2014 16:34:12 GMT -5
Looking at a modern map of New Jersey, it wouldn't be difficult to figure out why the prosecution in the Hauptmann trial would have favored Hunterdon County over Mercer County as the venue. Hunterdon has no major cities, back then it was likely mostly rural and so the jury pool (and the eventual jury) consisted of farming and small town people. In contrast, Mercer has Trenton, the state capital (where the trial would have been held?), plus Princeton and a few other college communities, likely to yield a more educated and urbane jury pool, which would have resulted in a jury less likely to be as impressed with the "wizardry" of prosecution witnesses such as Koehler and the Osborns and the elderly gentlemen who claimed to have seen Hauptmann in the vicinity at the time of the alleged crime, less likely to be impressed with the aura of Charles Lindbergh, and less likely to succumb to prejudices against German immigrants.
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Post by stella7 on Dec 29, 2014 18:12:07 GMT -5
Hunterdon County is still mostly rural, in fact, as is Hopewell Township. A beautiful part of New Jersey. I agree with you Hurtleable that Flemington was probably a more desireable locale for the trial from the prosecutions point. I'm sure most of Mercer County was quite rural back then with the exception of Trenton. Even Princeton was quite a small town, but it did have Einstein!
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 29, 2014 19:35:29 GMT -5
Flemington was the only logical [place to hold it, even though it seems small today. id like to know where the defense wanted it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 19:49:58 GMT -5
Highfields is in Mercer County, but I've always wondered that myself. Why was the trial held in Flemington? If I ever figure out how to use my scanner I'll add some road names and other notable places that we've talked about. But don't hold your breath! This just happens to be a map I found while looking up something else. Great map Stella! Look forward to whatever else you can add to it. The property that the Lindberghs bought in New Jersey straddled the Mercer County and Hunterdon County line. The house itself actually was built on the Hunterdon County side of the line. Since the prosecution claimed that Charlie died almost immediately from the fall taken by the kidnapper from the ladder when it broke, this would put Charlie's death in Hunterdon County. This is why the trial was held at the Flemington Court House.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 29, 2014 21:24:54 GMT -5
According to Stella's map, you are wrong: Highfields, though it is very close to the county line, lies in Mercer County (white area on the map). It may be a few feet away from Hunterdon, and also within a mile of Somerset, but it is in Mercer County. This is confirmed by the National Register of Historic Places, where Highfields is listed under sites in MERCER COUNTY, NJ.
www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/nj/mercer/state/html
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Post by stella7 on Dec 29, 2014 21:42:06 GMT -5
So, Highfields is actually listed in both Hunterdon and Mercer Counties as a National Historic site. I'm think Amy is correct that the house is over the line into Hunterdon, but both counties claim it.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 29, 2014 21:42:30 GMT -5
Logical place to hold it? This is not a matter of discretion on the part of the state government, at least in the large majority of state criminal cases. The statutes of all states call for the venue of a criminal trial to be the county in which the crime is committed. (Admittedly, there are unusual cases where a crime can be committed in multiple counties.) If, in this case, the state contended that the murder and kidnapping occurred at Highfields, the correct venue would be Mercer County, and so the trial should have been held in Trenton, which is and was the county seat of Mercer County.
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 29, 2014 22:15:05 GMT -5
does it matter? results would have been the same
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Post by Michael on Dec 30, 2014 6:21:51 GMT -5
From the FBI Summary Report:
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Post by stella7 on Dec 30, 2014 8:54:32 GMT -5
Great, there's our answer. Thanks, Michael.
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 30, 2014 9:30:48 GMT -5
answer to what?
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Post by stella7 on Dec 30, 2014 10:00:30 GMT -5
Hauptman being tried in Flemington instead of Trenton, and although I think jury selection does matter, I don't think it would have changed the outcome because Reilly didn't care to defend him.
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 30, 2014 10:54:25 GMT -5
reilly had nothing to work with. his mistake is he said stupid things to the papers that he knew he couldn't prove like he said he can connect whatley to condon and dumb things like that. he had no real witnesses. his client was a bust on the stand. all his lying caught up with him. hearst hired him which couldn't be done today
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Post by stella7 on Dec 30, 2014 11:50:32 GMT -5
A lot would be different today.
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 30, 2014 12:02:09 GMT -5
I agree, better forensics,the crime scene would have been better secured. Hauptman might have been caught sooner
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Post by Michael on Dec 30, 2014 17:21:43 GMT -5
I agree, better forensics,the crime scene would have been better secured. Hauptman might have been caught sooner And Authorities wouldn't have been intimidated and threatened by Lindbergh who was in charge and running the investigation. They certainly would have acted on their suspicions of his, or others within that household's possible involvement, without whispering or looking over their shoulders when communicating these thoughts to others. I am quite certain this mess would have been cleared up by months end and everyone who had a hand in it would have been taken in or tracked down.
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Post by romeo12 on Dec 30, 2014 19:08:36 GMT -5
i dont think he ran it as far as your take on it after the baby was found.
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Post by hurtelable on Dec 31, 2014 14:39:26 GMT -5
But your map indicates that the Highfields site is in Mercer County (white area), though very close to the county line which is clearly indicated. So we have a contradiction here - unless the county line changed between 1932 and present, which I'd say is unlikely.
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Post by stella7 on Dec 31, 2014 16:04:55 GMT -5
I guess because the property is in both Mercer County and Hunterdon County it is listed in both counties as a National Historic site. Go figure.http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HIGHFIELDS,_EAST_AMWELL_TOWNSHIP,_HUNTERDON_COUNTY.jpg
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Post by stella7 on Dec 31, 2014 16:08:33 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Dec 31, 2014 16:08:56 GMT -5
But your map indicates that the Highfields site is in Mercer County (white area), though very close to the county line which is clearly indicated. So we have a contradiction here - unless the county line changed between 1932 and present, which I'd say is unlikely. The line hasn't changed - the map isn't 100% accurate. Click on this link then zoom in on Highfields. It is clearly on the East Amwell side in Hunterdon County: www.mytopo.com/maps/index.cfm?lat=40.423889&lon=-74.767778&
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 1, 2015 12:39:58 GMT -5
i have a 1930s map of that area I never opened it.
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Post by stella7 on Jan 1, 2015 15:52:11 GMT -5
I've been looking for a 1930's map but haven't found one. If you do want to open it, would you see what road they are referring to as the Trenton Rd., for me? Thanks!
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Post by stella7 on Jan 1, 2015 15:53:24 GMT -5
I'm guessing it is Rt 206 as we know it.
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 1, 2015 19:37:08 GMT -5
let me f ind it
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 1, 2015 19:52:21 GMT -5
okay my map is for temporary use oct 24,1931, to spring of 1932. the George Washington bridge I think opened up in 1931, and this map was for people to hop on the right roads off the bridge. this map was called bridge approach roads.
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Post by stella7 on Jan 1, 2015 21:28:39 GMT -5
it's North Jersey then, not Central Jersey?
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