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Post by Michael on Sept 18, 2013 18:08:59 GMT -5
Right from jump-street, the Police suspected "local involvement." Guinness appeared to be a person of interest but was "cleared" once he offered an alibi for the night of the crime: Attachment Deleted
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Post by bookrefuge on Sept 18, 2013 20:37:16 GMT -5
Kind of interesting that he departs from Hopewell at 6PM on the night of the kidnapping—just the time Lupica spotted the car with the ladders—and headed up to New York, by which if they mean the city, is also the place of the extortion. Even if his alibi for later that evening (being in New York) checked out, he still could have played a “supporting role” in the drama. You do have to give the police credit—they were following an awful lot of leads.
Speaking of gas stations, it would be kind of convenient to have a confederate working at one, especially if the perps needed a fill-up for a long drive after the job.
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Post by stella7 on Sept 18, 2013 22:35:22 GMT -5
BR, does this mean you now think Hauptmann had accomplices, or are you still leaning toward toward him as the lone wolf? Michael, any idea what Green Brook Rd is now? Is it Stony Brook Rd?
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Post by bookrefuge on Sept 18, 2013 23:12:21 GMT -5
Hi, Stella7. It is interesting (to me) how often I’ve argued for a particular theory that would exonerate Hauptmann, only to find myself forced by logic to go back to Hauptmann most probably being guilty. I argued that the money could have been from “hot money dealer” Fisch, and logic proved me wrong. I thought Hauptmann couldn’t “know about Tuesday,” then I saw how he could. To tell you the truth, it was that Lilliput gun and the tiny hole in Charlie’s skull that pushed me personally into the “Hauptmann guilty” camp. I didn’t truly understand the wood evidence, so I had been living in denial on that one for a long time.
But for all that, I can’t deny that this case remains “unsolved” for me. There are still many troubling and unresolved questions. I personally find it perhaps the toughest historical mystery of the twentieth century. I feel like someone gave me a Rubik’s cube two years ago, and while I’ve lined up a few of the parts, I’m still a long way from the right solution!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 11:52:28 GMT -5
According to the FBI Summary Report, Guinness saw this Buick around 2:30 in the afternoon on February 28 which was a Sunday. I didn't know that gas stations were open Sundays back in 1932. Anyway, according to the report, Guinness says that this car drove off of the Rileyville Road into a side road which became impassible after several hundred yards so they turned back onto Rileyville Road and changed directions heading in an upstate direction toward Van Lues Corners.
If you look at a map today, Rileysville Road turns into Hopewell Wertsville Road when going south. Featherbed Lane intersects with Hopewell Wertsville Road. Is it possible that the portion of the road we know as Hopewell Wertsville Road could have been called Rileysville Road in 1932? I know that what we call Hopewell Amwell Road today was called Wertsville Road in 1932.
Perhaps Michael or Stella 7 could help us to figure out where the gas station that Guinness worked at was located.
Michael, why was John Guinness suspected by the police of being connected to the kidnapping? Since he operated a gas station I would have expected him to have maps of the area and he was probably asked about the Lindbergh house location as well. Is this the only reason they thought he might be connected?
BR, nice to see you post again. Have missed you sharing your thoughts and insights into this perplexing case. I see Hauptmann in the mix as far as being guilty in this crime. I am just not sure yet to what level he was involved. The wood tie to the ladder seems to put him in this for sure. I can't see him working on a ladder and not knowing what it was for. Just doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by Michael on Sept 20, 2013 5:15:39 GMT -5
Michael, any idea what Green Brook Rd is now? Is it Stony Brook Rd? It's a good question and I am just not sure - so I hate to guess. I think I will go through some stuff tonight to see if there isn't some more details in other Reports which may give us additional clues. Michael, why was John Guinness suspected by the police of being connected to the kidnapping? Since he operated a gas station I would have expected him to have maps of the area and he was probably asked about the Lindbergh house location as well. Is this the only reason they thought he might be connected? They were proceeding as if any Local might be involved. With that in mind, if they had a specific reason to suspect they pursued it with further inquiry. If they could quickly eliminate someone they often did. Sometimes investigations would "overlap" where they might get a tip about someone, investigate, only to find out this person had been previously investigated and cleared - so a promising lead would immediately be dropped. As this report indicates, they seemed suspicious of Guinness right away. What happens after he is cleared is he becomes one of their "informants" about other Locals. Sometimes this is legitimate, that is, someone offers their "help" out of the goodness of their heart. But for a true Local to do this in the Sourlands during that time period should give everyone pause. (This is much different then Bush "tracking" the Kidnappers for Police.) Often someone enlists in this type of activity as a diversionary measure for something they'd like to hide OR as a feather in their cap once they get caught doing something they shouldn't. I thought Hauptmann couldn’t “know about Tuesday,” then I saw how he could. BR, I can't remember where you mention this. What was it that changed your mind about how Hauptmann could "know about Tuesday?"
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Post by bookrefuge on Sept 20, 2013 8:16:32 GMT -5
Hi, Michael. That was in the "General Discussion" thread I started called "How Hauptmann knew about Tuesday--a Theory."
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Post by Michael on Sept 20, 2013 21:18:51 GMT -5
Hi, Michael. That was in the "General Discussion" thread I started called "How Hauptmann knew about Tuesday--a Theory." I've read this before, and I just read it again. I guess I was thinking there was something more specific that you've decided on. It's probably just the way I read it. I am looking for a 2 + 2 type of equation that I haven't found. In fact, I have never found one iota of factual information that Hauptmann was in Hopewell prior to this crime. So even the night of the crime is in question, but there's at least circumstantial information we can point to. Prior though its purely guess-work from where I am standing so we don't even have that.
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Post by bookrefuge on Sept 20, 2013 23:00:40 GMT -5
Although there is no real proof of BRH being in Hopewell on or before March 1, if the wood evidence proves he built the kidnap ladder found there, it would strongly suggest he had visited previously. We’ve talked before about how the ladder seemed tailored for the shutters, and built light to be carried over that tough terrain. Although I’ve considered the idea that he might have simply built the ladder according to someone else’s specifications, when you add the fact that he was laundering the ransom loot, I can’t disconnect Hauptmann from playing a very central role in this crime, as much as I have personally wanted him to be innocent.
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Post by Michael on Sept 21, 2013 8:32:45 GMT -5
Michael, any idea what Green Brook Rd is now? Is it Stony Brook Rd? I found a little more information which should help us figure this thing out: The Gas Station was on the corner of Minnietown Lane and Rileyville Road situated "about 2/3 of a mile" from Highfields. Guinness claims "Minnietown Lane" is a footpath which leads to the Lindbergh Estate. The Police noted that Minnietown Lane is misleading because it has the appearance of a hard dirt road but at about 250 yards becomes impassible for cars. Ideas anyone? How about John Donnelson Guinness. He operated a gas station in Hopewell. He said that on February 28 he saw a strange car, possibly a Willys-Knight, Buick or Parkard in the vicinity of the Lindbergh estate. There were two people in the car. One was a woman sitting in the passenger seat and the other was the driver. Guinness described him as rather peculiar-looking, blond and light complexed with a "jowly" face and "pop eyes". Sure doesn't sound like Hauptmann but didn't Duane Baker/Bacon have pop eyes and wasn't the stolen car(Schindler) found outside the Plymouth Apts a Buick? Forgive me if I am repeating myself or giving you information that is already in the FBI Summary. I can't remember sometimes, but since I have the Reports in front of me I'd rather run that risk then put them away only to find out it isn't out there yet.... On March 3rd, he claimed it was a "green Willys Knight 5 passenger" with a "California top" which was black. His impression was that it had Union County plates but he wasn't certain. Here he says the car in question tried to drive down Minnietown Lane but wound up backing out once realizing it was impassable. The Driver, a man, was described as being "foreign," "35 to 40," "stock build," "ruddy complexion," having a "frog type mouth," and wearing glasses. There was also a woman passenger but Guinness claims he didn't pay attention to her. He claims once they came back they were confused and indecisive which gave him the impression they were searching for the Lindbergh Estate.
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Post by Michael on Sept 21, 2013 8:37:39 GMT -5
Although there is no real proof of BRH being in Hopewell on or before March 1, if the wood evidence proves he built the kidnap ladder found there, it would strongly suggest he had visited previously. We’ve talked before about how the ladder seemed tailored for the shutters, and built light to be carried over that tough terrain. Although I’ve considered the idea that he might have simply built the ladder according to someone else’s specifications, when you add the fact that he was laundering the ransom loot, I can’t disconnect Hauptmann from playing a very central role in this crime, as much as I have personally wanted him to be innocent. I got you. It's me. I just had an impression that you considered something I hadn't seen you post so I was afraid I missed it. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Post by stella7 on Sept 21, 2013 17:20:56 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Sept 21, 2013 17:30:05 GMT -5
OK, that's the corner where Hillbilly Hall is.
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