For JD: you won't find the detail about the burlesque house in any of the books. It comes from the source investigatory reports on ransom bill passings. These reports are available at the NJSP archives. (Rab)
This is a perfect example why there is a need for our Board. I've read through these reports many times but I never made such a connection. Now that Rab has pointed it out its hard to skip over or shrug off. Still, I don't know what to make of it. It's a really strange thing. Any further input Rab....or anyone else??
JD: Here is one of the Reports on this that I have:
$5 Bill - A 56258526 A
Chase National Bank, 7th Avenue & 41st Street Branch.
Harold Asmund, teller, found bill in a deposit of J. Marcus, Treasurer, Minsky Burlesque Theater, 209 West 42nd Street, November 29th. Bill was part of the receipts of the Public Theater November 25th, 26th, and 27th.
This is my first reply to this board. You of the LKDB are very lucky to have the NJ STATE POLICE MUSEUM and ARCHIVES and someone like Mark W. Falizini to help you do serious research. You would be appalled to see what is let of the BLACK DAHLIA case; the shoes, purse, suitecase, etc. all gone. And the same of other famous cases. "BONNIE AND CLYDE' items sold at auction, to be dispersed and never seen by the public. Item from these famous cases have become Public Domain and should be available for all to see and study. My object is to have one or more
ransom Bill for my collection. Don't we all. Also a copy of the "small Booklet" that was published of the ransom serial numbers. Has anyone seen one? I already have a copy of the POSTER and the CURRENCY KEY CARD.
I think that there is more toBRH '33 trip to Florida than just a vacation!! This is when he set-up the money washing operations. Condon went to Miami in 1934 and was in Panama in 1936. What did the 'OLD FOX KNOW"?? Vaclav Simek was in the Dominican Republic at the time of the Kidnapping!!
What is the serial numbers of all the recovered Ransom Money? Where are these bill today? At the U. S. TREASURY? Is this covered by the Freedom of Information Act? You people with clout look into this!
Here is my breakdown of Ransom $ Recovered $3,980 exchange Apr-May 33 2,980 "J.J. FAULKNER" 14,600 in garage 20 on person 5,095 passed before arrested ________ $26,675 Approx total passed
I agree about the NJSP Archives. There are a couple of things missing, but all in all you are absolutely right.
I believe the Notes that had been found were eventually destroyed. Their value was eventually returned to Lindbergh. I also believe I've seen the little book to which you refer. And if I am right, I made a copy of it and should have it somewhere.
I will have to check my files to see about the numbers you have. It doesn't look too far off at all. If Rab sees this he may have that information before I do.
While searching through the files I came across something I don't ever remember seeing. I am still quite convinced the ransom money was eventually destroyed but apparently before it was this happened:
Col. Charles A. Lindbergh last week had $14,665 deposited to his account at the Bankers Trust Company, New York. The ransom-money found in the Hauptmann garage in 1934 had been held until now as evidence by the State of New Jersey. At the request of Prosecutor Anthony H. Hauck this money will be kept in a special bundle by the Treasury Department to be used if an accomplice of Hauptmann ever should be arrested and tried. "This does not mean that I anticipate a reopening of the case," said Mr. Hauck.
Here is an FBI re-cap up to the date of 10-12-34. Remember that the FBI, NY, and NJ weren't always on the same page 100% of the time. Futhermore, more bills did come in after this Report AND there were more findings which called for investigation which were either blown off or given a cursery "look-see." As a result those bills can neither be confirmed or denied:
RAB/MICKE How much ransom money was recovered and where is it? If the U. S. TREASURY has it can anyone with clout, like you two or Fisher, Gardner, Falzini see it? I thing that a list of the Faulkner exchange bills were posted on the Web, true?
RAB/MICKE How much ransom money was recovered and where is it? (geld)
It's hard to say with any degree of certainty because many reports of ransom findings weren't investigated after the Trial. Others that were didn't get a full attention, and some others did reveal they either were, or were not - ransom bills. In the end, I am 99% sure all bills were destroyed excepting those which had not been officially "found" or turned in. For example, a collector had one in the 1960s which had been given to him by a relative.
I thing that a list of the Faulkner exchange bills were posted on the Web, true? (geld)
I am not sure if a copy has been posted on the net but I believe I have something if you would like I can post it so just let me know.
Here is a little something to back me up on the other stuff I wrote above:
Thanks Michael: I have copied all of the Memo's and letters that you send me and put them in my file. If you have anything else, do so post. FDR policy was to get off the Gold standard, but it HURTS to know that all those GOLD COINS were melted down and all the ransom money destroyed. But I still wish some outfit like SIXTY MINUTES would take the point on this and force the issue with the TREASURY DEPT. When ever there is a famous case, police officer always take home a souvenir. You are send me more than I could ever hope for!! THANKS THANKS
In 1983 I asked David Wilentz what happened to the balance of the ransom that was recovered after Richard's arrest? He told me that the money was held by "The Deptartment of Treasury guys." After the trial it was deposited into Col. Lindbergh's personal account. He made a very strong point of adding that with Treasury holding the money no one could trade out bills for keep sakes. That being discussed with him close to 50 years after fact still made him very concered. I didn't know at the time I talked to Wilentz that Dr. Condon's son in law was reported to have had some of the ransom bills. Ralph Hacker having some of the bills I'm sure would have pushed the old man (Wilentz) right over the edge.
Thanks a lot for sharing Dave! You've had experiences I can only dream about so anything you want to tell us is very much appreciated. I remember hearing that Hacker had some ransom bills - but frankly I don't remember the source and I've been looking for it ever since your post without luck. Do you happen to remember the source?
By the way: The answer to your trivia question on the other board can either be a "bird" or a "star."
I think I can bring some color that might be a little different from the usual. I'm looking forward to the book coming out in July, "The Sixth Rail." How about we set up a board (Maybe there already is one?) that deals just with Lew Bornmann and Arthur Koehler? Bornmann told me a lot of great stories about working with Koehler. I would like to see how the information from Bornmann stands against the new book. Could be fun!
Bornmann was a very kind person. Here's a little in site I got from him. One of the stories he loved to tell was what it was like being a trooper on motorcycle. "There's one way that never fails to prove if they worked on motorcycles in the early days. (I think he was badge #300) Look at their hands." Then he showed me his hands. "See all those small black spots in the heels (His words) of my hands. Ya know what that is? That is New Jersey rode. Gravel! That's the way you tell. No gravel, no motorcycle. I fell so many times. Lucky to be alive." I'll always remember looking at his hands and seeing what looked like pepper under the skin and thinking so many years ago.
Let me know what you think. Folks have asked about other people but I would really like to start with "Cap."
With regards to the "Death House Guard." I have heard several different stories about Richard looking up at ceiling vent or window. The guard told me that while they were walking the comment was about a star.
One time when I was at Bornmann's house he took me down in the basement. Over in one corner was a small desk. He want into the top drawer and took out a picture. He handed it to me and said - "Behold the man." It was the only picture I have ever seen of Hauptmann and Bornmann together. I've searched, but have never seen one like it again!
I look forward to offering some different stories that will give a new look to a great story!
The information on Hacker having some of the ransom bills is just information I have always known but where I first heard it I can't say or remember. About twenty years ago it was brought back to my attention by a distant Hacker family member. He was referred to me by my friend the late Wayne Jones just before he died. Hacker with ransom bills didn't fit with Wayne's story line I guess. The family member told me it was just common knowledge in the family. After the trial Ralph was spending the money. How much he didn't know. "No one was looking anymore so he started using the money."
These kind of stories will drive you nuts if you think about them for too long! But hey, that's what makes this such a great story to dig into wouldn't you agree.
Nice to have you posting Dave. Look forward to all that you will be able to share with us on this board. From reading your posts it appears that you have known some of the actual participants in this crime. That certainly gives you a unique perspective to draw from!
I currently hold the position that Hauptmann was involved but had accomplices. Your post about Ralph Hacker spending ransom money is interesting but can't be verified. If he really did have it to spend, then he must have waited until after Hauptmann was convicted and they weren't checking anymore for ransom money in bank deposits.
I have just acquired Wayne Jones' book "Murder of Justice". It is a huge book!!! If I may ask, how does Jones theory on the case fit with yours?
From what I recall about the Death House Walk comment, Hauptmann said "Look, I see a star." I think he had on a previous occasion, seen a small bird trapped in some mesh around the skylight window and wanted someone to release it.
Dave, I'm also looking forward to reading more of your recollections from interviews with some of the case principals and hope to jump back into the discussion soon.
Hey Amy, Wayne's book is a challenge for sure! Good luck! Wayne was a good friend. It was through him that I was able to spend time with Anna Hauptmann. As far as his take on the case we ain't even close. When Wayne died his family gave me most of his files. I had a chance to really look at his findings. The thing I found the most interesting is the notebook by the guy who knew about the Lindbergh baby being taken to South America. I plan in the near future making that notebook available to any of the folks on the board who would like one. It's an interesting read. Wayne' s take was that Hauptmann was innocent, and he will explain that to you with over a thousand pages. Have fun!
As far as Hacker goes I can't pin it down where I first heard about him and the ransom money. The family member I talked to is sure. It will take more research. As I was thinking about it today Liberty Magizine kept coming to mind. All the Liberty material I have came from a guy named Harold Olson. I may have gotten the first story on Hacker from him. I'll have to do some digging. I have three file cabinets full of stuff in storage. I'll be getting it all out later this summer.
In 1979 I had talked to Tony Scaduto and we thought about doing a follow up to Scapegoat . I was convinced Hauptmann was innocent and everything I worked on then had that mind set. In May of 1983 I made a trip to New Jersey thinking I'd see everything for myself. I ended up staying the whole summer with many more trips after that. (Summer, Spring, Winter and Fall) Amy this Board is a great research tool. I wish I had it 30 years ago. Use it everyway you can.
I have always wished Richard wasn't involved . I feel that way even now. With all my research I feel I know him better than anyone alive today. But I have lived with the reality that he was the one who climbed that ladder and killed the Lindbergh baby as he slept. Believe me I would love to see something that would show he didn't do it, but I just don't see anything out there. And I'm really sorry.
Hacker with ransom bills didn't fit with Wayne's story line I guess. The family member told me it was just common knowledge in the family. After the trial Ralph was spending the money. How much he didn't know. "No one was looking anymore so he started using the money."
These kind of stories will drive you nuts if you think about them for too long! But hey, that's what makes this such a great story to dig into wouldn't you agree.
I have a Letter written by Ellis Parker to Hoffman telling him that Peacock showed him a ransom bill that he said he got at Atlantic City. This was in '35. Funny part is there was no report on this bill whatsoever and I assume Peacock was keeping it as a souvenir.
I fell so many times. Lucky to be alive." I'll always remember looking at his hands and seeing what looked like pepper under the skin and thinking so many years ago.
My Grandfather told me about going over the handlebars on a road in Pennington in '41 while on Patrol riding his Harley. Said the tar bubbled up in the middle of the road or something like that. He found out later it broke his collar bone but he never told anybody.
I think they ( Some of the Family) think it is true. Condon haters will eat it up. Personally I don't buy it. I think over the years Condon or some of the family may have acquired some of the bills. I was offered one in the 80's, but before I could move on it it was gone. The Condon family have always made me wonder why they sold the note from the Lindbergh's authorizing the Doctor to act as their representative. Do you remember when that came up for sale? Did Hacker have some of the bills? I would say there is a chance. Was it as a result of being directly involved with ransom no!
As I think about now I think the whole thing of Hacker spending ransom money came from Harold .
One other thought about Hacker, he may have sold the notes or just plain spent them as the times got tougher. Gotta eat ya know?
I don't think too much time has to be spent on Ralph Hacker!
Since you have alot of knowledge about Hauptmann, I was wondering if you happen to have any information about Hans Mueller. Hauptmann and Hans were close. Do you think they were close enough that Hans would have known about Hauptmann's involvement with the Lindbergh kidnapping? I believe Hans was with Richard when he was apparently taking coins(from laundering money)to deposit into an account.
Sorry so long on getting back to you. Lot going on right now. For the last two years (Really) I have had a statement, like a bad song rolling around in my head. Maybe someone can help. I need to get to my files but right now I don't have the time. Here it is: (Little fragmented!) "When he told me what he had done.......from that time on I shunned his (Hauptmann) friendship!" It was Mueller or Karl H.. One of the two. Was it about Karl's wife or the kidnapping? Book or police report? Let me know if you find anything.
Food for thought. Do you think for a person to kill a child he would have had to kill before? I don't mean in the military! Get the drift of the question? A lot went on in "The Fatherland" before the trip to America.
Thanks for getting back to me. I knew that you would answer when you could. That is quite a statement. Whatever Hauptmann confessed to, it must have been very serious. It changed his relationship with someone.
I will think about the question you ask about being able to kill a child. Off the top of my head I think a person would have to be emotionally driven to do such a thing or a cold-blooded killer who kills for money. A person like that doesn't care if it is a child or an adult or a whole family. They do it for the money. I am going to think more about it though. It is a challenging question.
Sorry so long on getting back to you. Lot going on right now. For the last two years (Really) I have had a statement, like a bad song rolling around in my head. Maybe someone can help. I need to get to my files but right now I don't have the time. Here it is: (Little fragmented!) "When he told me what he had done.......from that time on I shunned his (Hauptmann) friendship!" It was Mueller or Karl H.. One of the two. Was it about Karl's wife or the kidnapping? Book or police report? Let me know if you find anything.Food for thought. Do you think for a person to kill a child he would have had to kill before? I don't mean in the military! Get the drift of the question? A lot went on in "The Fatherland" before the trip to America. Take care, Dave
I seem to remember someone trying to pin this onto Kloppenberg. I know that isn't true because there's too much which contradicts it. So trying to guess at what may have been said in a similar fashion my first selection would be Max Rauch who said something very close. Next would be Rudolph Aldinger who threw Hauptmann out of his house for getting too close to his Wife (this cost him his marriage). After him would be John Chizacky who called Hauptmann "stupid" and refused to go on the Maine hunting trip with Hauptmann and Henkel because he disliked him so much. My final guess would be Casper Goetz. He had become friendly with Hauptmann and Schussler from hanging out at the Beer Garden. That is until one day Hauptmann showed up at his house when he was away and asked his Wife to join him there.
Last Edit: Jun 25, 2013 22:12:15 GMT -5 by Michael
Well Michael you got the whole gang. To state the obvious Hauptmann had many sides. There was always pride in a job well done. After a few years he just had to let some of his circle in on what he had done. Maybe not a complete overview of events, but a little peak ya know? With that he could get an in site as to (I think) who to bring along on the next "job." Money that could be spent was running low, and the "Fatherland" was on the move. I firmly believe another kidnapping was in the works by September of 1934.
I talked to Hans Kloppenburg many times. (Hours!) I got the impression that he really knew his friend, good, bad and ugly! He went completely sideways when we discussed the "Birthday/Singalong" and the Lowes ticket buy with the folded bill story. "Gott damn, Richard was with me that night. That woman Barr, she will burn in hell for that lie." I don't think that Hans was brought into the loop. If he was it was not enough to end the friendship.
If it is true that Hauptmann is the lone perpetrator of this crime why did he say- "They think when I die, the case will die. They think it will be like a book I close. But the book it will never close." - Bruno Richard Hauptmann
80 plus years and we are still kicking this around!!
No just him, but he was taking about New Jersey, Dave Wilentz, the Lindberghs and everyone who supported the "Wolf Theory." He had another one about "little bits of wood and paper" too. Forget how that goes though. It was kinda neat.
Michael: Talked to him a couple of months ago.
Feb 11, 2020 18:22:20 GMT -5
jack7: Heey Michael - seen Dave around?
Feb 21, 2020 11:55:55 GMT -5
Michael: Talked to him a couple of months ago.
Feb 22, 2020 10:30:59 GMT -5
Laurence24: Bonjour à tous les membres,et merci d'avoir crée ce forum. Je me présente à vous, mon prénom est mon pseudo. Je suis de France. Pendant mon sommeil,John Edgar Hoover m'a montré son vécu mais également une infinie partie d'indices concernant le nom du forum
Mar 3, 2020 12:02:53 GMT -5
Michael: Bienvenue Laurence. Allez-y et postez ce qu'il vous a dit - ça a l'air intéressant ...
Mar 3, 2020 12:26:06 GMT -5
stella7: Sorry for the short notice but there’s a documentary on Anne Morrow Lindbergh on at 8:30 tonight. Channel 23 New Jersey Public Television
Mar 11, 2020 19:24:43 GMT -5
wolfman666: the half hour one made in 2017? it was very good
Mar 14, 2020 9:23:46 GMT -5
Laurence24: Bonjour Mickael,ainsi que tous les autres membres de ce forum..
Mar 20, 2020 7:48:19 GMT -5
Laurence24: Et merci de m'avoir acceptée chaleureusement dans votre forum..
Mar 20, 2020 7:50:48 GMT -5
Michael: Je vais consulter le site. N'hésitez pas à publier ou à créer un fil de discussion sur le babillard à ce sujet. Vous pouvez également y poster un lien car je crains que beaucoup ne lisent pas cette shoutbox.
Mar 20, 2020 9:56:06 GMT -5
Laurence24: Moi qui comprend pas l'anglais, j'ai été surprise de sa première visite dans mon rêve, quand j'ai cherchée par mots clés, et que j'ai découvert qui il était ou ou il avait vécu, je me suis dis, wouah !! dans l'au delà, ils peuvent faire beaucoup de choses
Mar 20, 2020 10:41:07 GMT -5
Laurence24: Bonjour et merci à vous Michaël,je viens de suivre votre conseil..
Apr 29, 2020 7:52:33 GMT -5