Did Lindbergh’s arrival alter the kidnapping?

[Deleted]

So the kidnapper might have put socks over his muddy shoes before going up the ladder. I can see that controling the amount of mud being deposited in the nursery. I can't imagine why the kidnapper would want to go up the ladder with stocking feet only. That must of been brutal but the one good print found at the scene near the ladder showed ribbed marks from a sock. Also there are sock prints leading to where the ladder was left. Also, there was a man named Oscar Bush who was called upon to look at the tracks. He followed the sock prints to Featherbed Lane. He also makes mention that the tracks left by one of the kidnappers had a crooked small toe on his right foot, one that rested on top of the other. Could this mean that the stocking foot prints were made by the kidnapper and he did take off his shoes to go up that ladder? Since no shoes were found at the scene he must of picked them up and took them with him. I can't think of any reason to enter with the socks other than to quiet the sound of feet walking in the nursery.

I agree with you zerohunter. Alot of this crime scene doesn't add up. Kevkon do you know if a report was ever made on the condition of the shutters on that window? Did anyone check to see why they wouldn't latch or was what Betty and Anne said about the shutters not being able to latch just accepted at face value?

[Michael]

So Michael, then none of the smudges are really footprints? And they don't go all the way to the crib? How did they ever get Charlie out of the crib then? I really have to think about this. (Amy)

Thayer said they were proven to have been Anne's "by the knobs on her golf shoes..." But it's important to note Thayer wasn't there that night, but he's a good source for having obtained this information from someone very close - like Anne herself, however he doesn't say who told him although its also worthy to note its stated in the report as a matter of fact.

Anyway, let's skip Thayer for a minute and focus on some of those first responders who did see them and what they said.

Bornmann said they were "not exactly footprints" but "smudges of mud" but that you "could say they were a sole of a foot" and that's what he believed them to be despite being "irregular and indistinct." He said they gave him the idea of direction being from the window toward the crib. The "last one" was "at the center of the rug" which was about the 1/2 way point. He expressed his opinion that this last print was made because the rug had probably cleaned the shoe of whatever mud remained up to that point.

Williamson during his testimony said he saw two or three between the window and the crib ending three or four feet before the crib. When asked if they were a woman's or a man's he said he "couldn't tell" because it was a "blurred mark."

Now to the "sock" footprints. There are no prints leading toward the house, so we cannot say what was worn on the approach by anyone. There were sock footprints leading to the ladder. From the ladder there are boots or overshoe prints leading away from that area. The question I've always kicked around was whether or not the shoe was covered with a sock (or burlap) OR if the shoe was off. Next why, under any circumstance, continue through that muddy yard without putting the shoes on or taking the sock off?

[lightningjew]

I keep hearing about trails of footprints around the house, leading to Featherbed, leading to a chicken coop, etc. It's all very confusing and I was wondering if there's a map anywhere (similar to, say, the one Kevkon made of the access roads) showing the tracks of all these prints.

[Deleted]

It would be great if such a map existed like LJ mentions in his post. It is so hard to make a mental picture of all the prints outside and exactly where they led.

The fact that there are no prints leading to the house is so troubling. We have kidnapper(s) committing a crime but we don't have the route they used to get to the house to take Charlie. There is evidence that a car, possibly, two were on Featherbed Lane.

Were any prints found leading from the main driveway of the house to the southeastern side of the house. Could one of the kidnappers have been dropped off with the ladder and then used the catwalk to approach the window? The driver would have then returned to Featherbed Lane and wait for the kidnapper(s) to bring Charlie to the car. Then one car could have created the second set of tracks that would have made it look like two cars had been there.

The other thing about the sock prints is maybe they were created by someone from inside the house who was assisting with the crime and they needed to keep their shoes clean and also make it difficult to identify the shoes they were wearing. They could easily remove the socks before re-entering the house.

I don't really like considering this, but was Charles Lindbergh's car ever checked for mud on the inside?

[kevkon]

There is an official survey map which locates the house and drive along with where the ladder was found. It shows the footprints from the house to where the ladder was found. As far as the other prints, no. If I can find my copy I'll post it.
Equally, if not more important is a time sequence for all of the occupants between 6 and 10pm. That would show what was possible ( or if it was possible) and when, plus what interior activities may have impacted the kidnapping plans. I know Michael or Mark gave one to me, I'll look for that too.
Regarding the shutter, at least one was removed. I have no idea where it ended up though it wouldn't surprise me if it was next to Rosebud. I have never seen any info regarding an inspection of said shutter.

[Michael]

I keep hearing about trails of footprints around the house, leading to Featherbed, leading to a chicken coop, etc. It's all very confusing and I was wondering if there's a map anywhere (similar to, say, the one Kevkon made of the access roads) showing the tracks of all these prints. (LJ)

That's exactly right. It's another Rubix Cube found in the Labyrinth. People aren't recounting the exact same thing, and what they say is terribly general and/or confusing. The problem starts with the Police not being aware of the area. I was confused for years over Hopewell-Amwell Road (East), for example, because the NJSP kept referring to it as the wrong road: Hopewell-Wertzville Road (West). And to this day, I don't know how to refer to it because I know what they mean but its not what they say.

They do this in other places too, so keep this in the back of your mind. It's a wild card factor no one could possibly factor in without knowing this so I want to provide it to the Board now for consideration.

The Map Kevin refers to Mark and I found in the closet probably back in '03. Basically, it confirms the prints leading to the ladder. That's important because you start second guessing everything under the circumstances. But as to where they go from there it doesn't show. I have found many maps in the various newspapers provided by the UP, AP, INS, etc. etc. These maps all seem to show different paths so I'd have to say there isn't anything official anywhere that we can refer to for guidance.

Were any prints found leading from the main driveway of the house to the southeastern side of the house. (Amy)

Aside from the "female" prints leading to the south from the Nursery Window, all prints lead away from the home in a southeastern direction.

I don't really like considering this, but was Charles Lindbergh's car ever checked for mud on the inside? (Amy)

Don't be afraid to ask questions. The stigma about asking anything concerning Lindbergh began that very night, and I believe, the crime would have been solved very much sooner if they didn't let the Aviator run the Investigation.

It's troublesome watching countless excuses for why certain things happened, if and only if, it involves Lindbergh. You can't erase history no matter how hard certain people try. Fisher's "books" are a perfect example. Make up conversations that never happened. Refer to Reports that do not say what he says. Assert Reports don't exist that do. Insinuate people are nutz to consider key pieces of evidence. Belittle certain Investigators who came up with good information. Ignore circumstances and variables that need to be considered.....

Say it, repeat it, then repeat it again then.....it becomes fact?

Nope. Not if the records exist to show it was never true in the first place.

The answer to your question is "no." Nothing about Lindbergh was investigated unless it was suggested by Lindbergh himself. If they had an original idea, Schwarzkopf went to him first asking for permission before executing it.

Equally, if not more important is a time sequence for all of the occupants between 6 and 10pm. (Kevin)

If you can't find it let me know and I will see what I can find. It might not be the same one you have in mind because there are many.

Regarding the shutter, at least one was removed. I have no idea where it ended up though it wouldn't surprise me if it was next to Rosebud. I have never seen any info regarding an inspection of said shutter. (Kevin)

I think what little we know was originally in Lloyd's book. That comes from Rosner who said he watched Schwarzkopf, days after March 1st, remove it letting it crash to the ground then ordering it to be dusted for prints. I know that Mark has found a lot of stuff in crates in the warehouse but the shutter never turned up. I asked him if he thought there might be something left undiscovered and he told me no.

[lightningjew]

Too bad about no reliable map showing footprint trails. What about this chicken coop though? Did the footprints seem to lead to or around that? If so, where was it exactly?

[kevkon]

If you look closely or zoom in on the photo I posted you can see the chicken coop to the right of the small house at the beginning of Lindbergh's driveway.
There was a map created by one of the newspapers showing the footprint trails. However, I neither trust it nor think it accurate.

[bookrefuge]

Aside from the "female" prints leading to the south from the Nursery Window, all prints lead away from the home in a southeastern direction. (Michael)

For clarification, can you specify which way is “south” on Kevin’s map? Thanks.

[kevkon]

The front of the house faces NNW, but for most references it is assumed to be North.

[Michael]

Kevin: Do you know where the "power lines" are?

[kevkon]

Yes, they run in from Hopewell Wertsville Rd which is due west. If you look again at the aerial photo I posted you can see the lines in the bottom right corner. You can also see the very last pole where the overhead lines are routed underground to that small well building by the garage parking area. Since these lines were just put in, the road required to install the poles and cable would probably be in good shape. I'm not entirely certain, but I suspect that the reason they run in this manner was due to the intended airstrip.

[bookrefuge]

Kevin, thanks for clarifying the compass direction on the map. I assume that is Featherbed Lane in yellow to the upper right of the house, is that correct? So when Michael says that most of the footprints lead Southeast, they are headed for Featherbed.

Looking at the map makes it is easier to see why the kidnappers would choose to escape by Featherbed Lane (aside from the difficulties of traversing this road by car, and of getting to it by foot over rough ground).

By using Featherbed Lane instead of the driveway, they avoid any chance of being spotted by Lindbergh or a visitor coming up the driveway. Also, once they have their quarry, by using Featherbed they do not risking being spotted by going around the house--they make their getaway directly away from the house heading for Featherbed.

If I was planning this caper, I think that’s how I’d do it.

Whoever did this, it looks they had it well planned. You had to have explored the territory in advance. You had to know where the nursery was, the baby’s routine, and that Lindbergh wasn’t expected home until late that evening.

[lightningjew]

Since there were apparently no footprints leading to the house, this might indicate an approach by the driveway (and could also explain the tire sound Anne Lindbergh said she heard). And if we factor in the footprints only leading away from the house, to Featherbed (and the sightings of cars there earlier), bookrefuge's idea of the kidnappers being on Featherbed and using it as only an escape route makes a lot of sense. But what about those access roads around the house? I realize that just because something seems ideal it doesn't necessarily mean it absolutely has to have played a part, but how could/would they have figured into this? Also, if there were footprints leading to the chicken coop (which, I've just been told, was toward the end of the driveway) as well as to Featherbed--well, those two points are in opposite directions, so seems to me that there were two people who apparently split up for some reason...

[kevkon]

Featherbed is a long trip. My opinion for what it's worth is that two kidnappers left the house and proceeded to the road via the access road and crossed the Hopewell Wertsville Road by the chicken coop and house. They were then picked up by another in a car who had been waiting down at Featherbed. I believe a simple flashlight signal would achieve this as the terrain was open field back then.

[wolf2]

kevkon, your only assuming there were two people. i think hauptmann did it alone

[kevkon]

Well yes, I assume this because the evidence indicates multiple subjects. Disregarding the difficulties with the ladder for the moment, one has to explain the multiple footprints leading to and then ending at the road. I think it's fair to conclude from this that there was a car waiting. Does it sound remotely reasonable that Hauptmann alone walked up from Featherbed, erected the ladder, went in, came out backwards with the child, left the note, closed the window, carried both the ladder and child 75ft, put down the ladder, walked to the chicken coop making two sets of prints, and somehow his car was waiting for him?

[lightningjew]

Interesting. So, just to be clear, you think they were picked up by the chicken coop on the road marked Hopewell-Amwell on you map, having used the access roads as an escape route? Two questions: Were the footprints leading towards Featherbed unrelated to the crime then, and how do you think they approached the house? The driveway?

[kevkon]

I think the approach, not the retreat, was from Featherbed.

[lightningjew]

Okay, so now we have a minimum of three individuals: They park on Featherbed, two of them hiking to the house. They wait outside (or one of them breaks in and hides) for awhile, but, however they get in, one kidnapper hands the baby off to the other from the nursery window. The ladder is then stashed near the access roads, the two kidnappers using them to meet up with the third, who has driven the getaway car to Hopewell-Amwell Rd. and parked near the chicken coop. I suppose the ladder could've been hidden there prior to all this, as carrying it from Featherbed seems extremely difficult. One thing though: I thought the footprints were leading to Featherbed, rather than from it.

[wolf2]

difficult with the ladder? i 30 something year old man can carry a 30 pound ladder, and seeing the replica being assembed it wasnt difficult at all. your saying there were more people nobody ever came forward or was taken in

[kevkon]

May 7, 2012 6:27:46 GMT -5 wolf2 said:

difficult with the ladder? i 30 something year old man can carry a 30 pound ladder, and seeing the replica being assembed it wasnt difficult at all. your saying there were more people nobody ever came forward or was taken in

Steve, if all that happened on 3/1/32 was that Hauptmann drove down to Highfields during the day, walked 1/2 mile with just the ladder, erected two sections, climbed up to some point then climbed down, removed the ladder and went home, I'd agree with you.
But that's not what happened. So, unless you can explain the footprints, the lookout at the cemetery, the ability to look at a closed shutter and know it's not locked, getting on and off that ladder from 30" below the sill, carrying the child, placing the note, carrying both the child and the ladder, and making a second set of tracks, then the actual operation of the kidnap involved more than one.

[Deleted]

Kevkon, is Featherbed Lane accessible from the Lindbergh driveway? I seem to be getting confused about where exactly Featherbed Lane is in reference to the Access Road and the Lindbergh driveway. Help!

[kevkon]

No Amy, Featherbed is about 1/2 mile South from the house and runs East-West. In the aerial photo I posted it is at the farthest upper right hand corner. An always good reference is;
njstateatlas.com/1930/

[bookrefuge]

Kevin, thank you for pointing out Featherbed’s location on the aerial photo—I had misunderstood it previously. It does looks like Featherbed would have been quite a haul from the Lindbergh estate. Regarding those access roads you highlighted in yellow, do you know just how “access"ible these were by automobile at the time? In your opinion, did the kidnappers use these? I don’t see much mention of them in LKC literature. Interestingly, Gardner (p. 26) also quotes a report mentioning “an abandoned road which leads to the chicken coop and an old abandoned house at the entrance to the Lindbergh estate.” It sounds like there were a few nooks and crannies in the topography that the kidnappers could have made use of. In fact, I have to wonder if the perps might have even made use of the abandoned house—a place to wait, spy from, post a lookout, etc.

[kevkon]

Hi BR, I think that road was very usable as it was the primary construction access road. If you look closely at the 1930s NJ aerial map ( link in last post) you can see Highfields is under construction and the driveway was also. Remember that Highfields was still not complete. They still had to bring in equipment to do the final landscape and build the airfield. They would not use the long curving driveway for this. Anyone who worked on or visited Highfields could know this. One other point, at that time of the year the ground would still be pretty stiff from the freeze of winter so even if there was rain the roads would still be fairly good.

[Michael]

Kevkon, is Featherbed Lane accessible from the Lindbergh driveway? I seem to be getting confused about where exactly Featherbed Lane is in reference to the Access Road and the Lindbergh driveway. Help! (Amy)

I just wanted to use your question to stress again that even the Police were confused about what roads were what. And so they might mention a road that wasn't the road to which they referred.

Also Amy, I wanted to add an asterisk (*) to this:

Aside from the "female" prints leading to the south from the Nursery Window, all prints lead away from the home in a southeastern direction.

I made this statement barring anything I hadn't discovered yet. That's important because I do make new discoveries more often then should be the case.

I have to wonder if the perps might have even made use of the abandoned house—a place to wait, spy from, post a lookout, etc. (BR)

The Construction Company used this house to store tools and materials. Also, the NJSP took it over as the Gatehouse to guard the entrance to Highfields.

Hi BR, I think that road was very usable as it was the primary construction access road. (Kevin)

You're right Kevin they were usable at the time. I say this to counter the 1934 FBI Memo I found claiming they were overgrown and impassable. Perhaps in '34 - but not on March 1, 1932.

[bookrefuge]

Sorry, still looking for my own clarity. This abandoned house that the police used—in the photo Kevin posted, is it in the far distance, at the start of the driveway near the Hopewell-Amwell Road? I see the word “gatehouse” there in small print. At first, I thought the abandoned house was much closer to the Lindberghs' house, because there were supposed to be footprints leading to the chicken coop near the abandoned house. Did investigators really follow footprints all the way down to where it says “gatehouse”? Or have I gotten my chicken coops mixed up?

Also, is it possible to get a fix on where Kuchta and Kristofek were residing in relation to this photo?

[Deleted]

Kevkon, thank you so much for the link to the NJ Atlas. It has been very helpful. I located Featherbed Lane and also the Lindbergh house. I see on the map that Featherbed Lane straddles Hopewell-Wertsville Road and deadends. I also see that there is a Featherbed Lane extending off of Hopewell-Amwell Road which leads to the Lindbergh private drive. Do you know which section of Featherbed Lane was the one located near the Conover Farm. They saw car lights on Featherbed Lane on March 1 around 6:45 pm.

Michael, I understand about the footprint evidence. If there were footprints leading to the house perhaps they just were not seen soon enough and became trampled on once the bulletin went to the news services about the kidnapping. Or just maybe they walked up the driveway after getting the ladder from the abandoned house at the entrance to the drive. It could have been placed in there a little earlier by the person Ben Lupica saw with a ladder in the car. I cannot imagine the ladder being carried from Featherbed Lane all the way across the open fields to the Lindbergh house. It just seems too long. The access road on Kevkon's map makes much better sense as a carry point.

[wolf2]

kevkon, who in there right mind would anybody get involved in a big lie of writing ransom notes and have the negotiations in a cemetery where you can easily get caught. i dont see any real proof that people helped him. the footprints could have would have and should have. it dosnt mean he had help