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Post by rebekah on Oct 13, 2014 21:18:13 GMT -5
I would like to know if anyone has any information on the following people:
Enrico Girardi (or Gerardi) His wife (first name unknown), divorced from one Joseph Moran, a NYC lawyer, and her son: Charles Moran
I found these people on a website that I can't seem to find again, but I noted them for the following reasons. These people supposedly lived near the Lindberghs on three separate occasions in 1931. The first location was Richfield Park, NJ, approximately 5 miles from the Morrow estate. The second location was in Rockland, Maine in the summer of 1931, and a short distance from where the baby spent the summer. And, the third is the most interesting. Sometime in 1931, they reportedly moved (according to what this site posted) to Hopewell, NJ and rented a house just a few hundred yards from where the body of the baby was found.
Mr. Girardi hired a housekeeper by the name of Mary Griffin Wilson to care for his wife who was mentally unstable. She had worked there for approximately 3 months. As posted, her former address was the Plymouth Apartments, 537 W. 149th St., NYC.
In January of 1934, Girardi and Wilson were both arrested when Mrs. Girardi was found locked in a bedroom and totally out of her mind. Enrico Girardi supposedly had strong family ties to the Bronx and was a former middle weight boxer. Both Girardi and his stepson, Charles Moran, had no visible means of support during this time.
Does anyone know if there is any truth to any of this, or is it the loudest screaming red herring I've ever read?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 22:53:12 GMT -5
This is an angle I find very interesting also. This group had rented Charles Schippel's shack during a part of the summer of 1931. Schippel's shack was located very close to where the corpse was found on May 12th. I continue to search for newspaper articles about these people. Hopefully I will come across something and I will definitely post it. There is a thread on this board about this. Here is the link. lindberghkidnap.proboards.com/thread/108/cerardi-bunch-time-lkc-suspects
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Post by romeo12 on Oct 14, 2014 6:31:23 GMT -5
i have fbi reports on them and newspaper articles. me finding them is another story
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 10:08:08 GMT -5
There might be something to this. Here is a link to an article on this story. The husband is actually Joseph. He had been questioned regarding the Lindbergh kidnapping because he and his wife had rented Charles Schippel's shack in Mount Rose NJ during the summer of 1931. What I think is very important here is that Joseph and his wife would go on to rent a four room apartment over a stable located on the old Barnes Estate in Ridgefield Park, NJ during the winter of 1932. According to this article Mrs. Cerardi was a normal healthy woman at this time. The winter of 1932 covers the time that Charlie was kidnapped. Could there be a connection? news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZF8oAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m9IEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4583%2C2865594
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 10:58:18 GMT -5
Michael,
When did LE check out Joseph Cerardi and his renting of the Schippell's shack in 1931? Was it in May of 1932 that Cerardi was investigated? Was he still living with his wife in Ridgefield Park NJ? This puts these two in the neighborhod of Teaneck NJ, Fort Lee NJ and not that far from Englewood NJ and Next Day Hill. Teaneck and Fort Lee are areas that connect to Ralph and Myra Hacker(Condon's daughter and son-in-law), Charles Ellerson(Morrow chauffeur), Rudoph Hacker, Willie Krippendorf/Henry Liepold/Geissler/J.J. Faulkner investigation.
I just realized that this is the Cerardi that Harold Woolf was investigating. We talked about this in the 3X Murder thread.
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Post by hurtelable on Oct 14, 2014 12:47:30 GMT -5
That 537 W. 149th St. address is exactly the address that "J. J. Faulkner" (later determined to be Jacob Nosovitsky) used on his infamous bank deposit slip on May 1, 1933. Did Noso have some connection to Mary Griffin Wilson or Mr. Girardi? And that in turn raises the question as to whether Girardi or Wilson had some connection to the ransom payment.
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Post by rebekah on Oct 14, 2014 18:47:02 GMT -5
There might be something to this. Here is a link to an article on this story. The husband is actually Joseph. He had been questioned regarding the Lindbergh kidnapping because he and his wife had rented Charles Schippel's shack in Mount Rose NJ during the summer of 1931. What I think is very important here is that Joseph and his wife would go on to rent a four room apartment over a stable located on the old Barnes Estate in Ridgefield Park, NJ during the winter of 1932. According to this article Mrs. Cerardi was a normal healthy woman at this time. The winter of 1932 covers the time that Charlie was kidnapped. Could there be a connection? news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZF8oAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m9IEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4583%2C2865594Thank you, Amy, for posting this article. These are definitely the same people. I wrote the names down exactly as the website had them written, so, with the aliases he used, I'm glad you knew who I was asking about. Do you know where the shack was? The coincidences and names connected to this case give me a headache.
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Post by rebekah on Oct 14, 2014 18:59:19 GMT -5
That 537 W. 149th St. address is exactly the address that "J. J. Faulkner" (later determined to be Jacob Nosovitsky) used on his infamous bank deposit slip on May 1, 1933. Did Noso have some connection to Mary Griffin Wilson or Mr. Girardi? And that in turn raises the question as to whether Girardi or Wilson had some connection to the ransom payment. That jumped right out at me, hurtelable. Now, whether or not it's true is another thing. If we could find a connection between Wilson and Nosovitsky, it might be a bombshell. I believe that the J.J. Faulkner deposit could have broken this case in 1933, because no one has $2980 of Lindbergh ransom unless they have some knowledge of SOMETHING. Maybe he bought the money, so much on the dollar. (And maybe so did Fisch and Hauptmann or just Fisch, which is my real theory.) Ever wonder if Mr. J.J. spent a $20 note out of $3000 he may have received? I'll bet he did.
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Post by Michael on Oct 14, 2014 19:50:28 GMT -5
When did LE check out Joseph Cerardi and his renting of the Schippell's shack in 1931? Was it in May of 1932 that Cerardi was investigated? Was he still living with his wife in Ridgefield Park NJ? When the Police found Schippel in May, he told them about Maran, his Step-Father who he said was an Italian named "Joe," and his "demented" Mother having rented his place for a few months in the summer of '31 before moving back to the Bronx. Both the NYPD and NJSP tried to locate them and were unsuccessful until they were finally found living at 585 Teaneck Road, Ridgefield Park, NJ by Keaten and Wilson.
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Post by stella7 on Oct 14, 2014 20:22:08 GMT -5
From that address, Englewood is 4 miles away and the Bronx is just 9. Michael, do you know where Schippel lived when the Cerardi's rented his shack? Also, I recall that Schippel had some animosity toward Lindbergh, do you know why?
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Post by Michael on Oct 15, 2014 18:02:35 GMT -5
From that address, Englewood is 4 miles away and the Bronx is just 9. Michael, do you know where Schippel lived when the Cerardi's rented his shack? Also, I recall that Schippel had some animosity toward Lindbergh, do you know why? Supposedly he was living with his Mother-In-Law at 236 E. 88th Street, New York City. As far as his animosity toward Lindbergh..... It might be in a book and if so should be checked against what I happen to recall from the files here.... George Daws from the World-Telegram heard Schippel voice profound dislike for Colonel Lindbergh and the NJSP. I realize this doesn't sound good, however, the timing of his declaration is relevant. Obviously it was made after the child was discovered and there was a ton of attention thrown his way as a result. The NJSP, Press, and Private Investigators were all over his property and there were documented times when the NJSP broke into the "shack" and took some of his tools. Schippel complained and was threatened with arrest. With this in mind, it could provide a perfect explanation for his attitude toward everyone involved.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 11:26:50 GMT -5
In a report written by Detective Louis Bornmann of the NJSP, he states that Shippel's shack was located on "the old Glenmore Road, Mount Rose, NJ". I have looked at google maps and come up empty on Glenmore Road. Either the road is no longer there or it has been renamed. Perhaps Stella might be able to comment on this as she is very familiar with the Hopewell-Princeton area of New Jersey. There is a deadend road labled Old Mount Rose Road that shows up on google maps. Since it runs into the creek area of the woods perhaps this might be it?? The corpse was found near the creek.
I currently think that the way this kidnapping was put together involved the use of a number of people at different times who were not connected to each other. They operated independently but provided information or items that ended coming together creating this crime. It could be that Cerardi and Charles Maran were doing some surveilance work for someone who wanted to know about the various locations that Charlie resided in. That is why these men are, at various times, in the Englewood area, the North Haven Maine area, and the Hopewell area. They would be able to share information about these locations. The receiver of this information could then use it to assess what would be the softest location for a kidnapping.
I hear you about the names. So many people who were being investigated had so many aliases. I have found myself treating the same person as several different people until I found out one person used all the names. Michael has been such a help to me; this is only one of the ways.
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Post by hurtelable on Oct 16, 2014 12:16:40 GMT -5
To All:
There is a "German factor" here. The name Schippel is German and the address given is in the heart of Yorkville, the Manhattan neighborhood with a high density of German immigrants and others of German descent, the same neighborhood that was the focus of passing of Lindbergh ransom bills by Hauptmann in 1934. Of course, the ransom notes were all believed to be written or dictated by someone with knowledge of the German language.
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 17:14:08 GMT -5
I think it may be Crusher Rd, it veers off from Princeton Ave.. There's also a shack, about half way up Crusher Road, that has been uninhabited for at least 40 years. I'll try and take a picture of it when I come back from vacation. Amy, where did you find out about Glenmore Rd.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 19:48:00 GMT -5
I think it may be Crusher Rd, it veers off from Princeton Ave.. There's also a shack, about half way up Crusher Road, that has been uninhabited for at least 40 years. I'll try and take a picture of it when I come back from vacation. Amy, where did you find out about Glenmore Rd. Glenmore Road is mentioned by Det. Bornmann in a report he wrote dated August 9, 1932, Wilburtha NJ. He talks about a quantity of baby clothes and diapers and pads that were found in the vicinity of where the body of the baby was found. He says these items were found a short distance from the farm of Mr. Schippell. He says it is located on the old Glenmore Road in Mount Rose. Michael had posted this on one of the threads on this board. I printed it out in 2012 but I will try to locate it again or maybe Michael could upload it for us here. I saw Crusher Road on the map. I wondered about this road myself but because the report Bornmann references claims the items were in the vicinity of where the baby was found, I thought Crusher Road was too far away. Charlie was found near the creek and that is farther up Hopewell-Princeton Road. I really am not good with directions so I bow to your expertise here.
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 19:59:06 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 20:13:53 GMT -5
There are no older homes on Princeton Ave, but there are a few on Crusher Rd. There is also on section of Crusher where you get a great view of the ridge where Highfields should be.
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Post by romeo12 on Oct 16, 2014 20:23:10 GMT -5
stella do you know princeton well?
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 20:28:48 GMT -5
We moved there in 1967 from Connecticut, so pretty well, yes. I sold my dad's house on Valley Rd last year after he passed away. My father-in-law still lives there.
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Post by romeo12 on Oct 16, 2014 20:36:22 GMT -5
there was a place call the balt. it was a 24 hour coffe shop in the 1930s that some people connected to the crime went there for coffee and stuff
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 20:43:17 GMT -5
I think The Balt closed shortly before we moved there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 20:50:04 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this map! I see Glenmoore and the Golf Club. So does that mean Charlie's body was found closer to where Crusher Road meets Princeton-Hopewell Road? Orville Wilson parked his truck on Princeton-Hopewell Road so William Allen could go take care of some personal business.
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 20:54:11 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 21:00:40 GMT -5
I don't know, Amy. Romeo and Michael, you've been to the sight, I always thought it was closer to the town of Hopewell.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 21:45:30 GMT -5
I don't know, Amy. Romeo and Michael, you've been to the sight, I always thought it was closer to the town of Hopewell. I thought it was closer to Hopewell also. The body was near the creek which passed underneath the Princeton-Hopewell Road and went into the woods. You can see this in pictures that were taken at that time. Perhaps Bornmann got the name of the road wrong in his report. Here is one picture taken at the site: www.apimages.com/metadata/Index/Watchf-AP-A-NJ-USA-APHS258273-Charles-Lindbergh-/9be8f322ec2d44e298b244cc49c2e4ba/1/0I will look for a better one that shows the creek that stradles the road and post it. Steve - I think this picture shows the hotdog stand you mentioned in a different post.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 22:01:56 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 22:29:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 22:51:23 GMT -5
I think you are exactly right. I think that v-road was called Glenmore Road at one time. That house at the end is where Schippel's shack would have been. So the body was found close to the house. Great job finding this!!! Schippell's location is a secret no more!
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Post by stella7 on Oct 16, 2014 22:53:52 GMT -5
OK good, I can sleep now!
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Post by lightningjew on Oct 17, 2014 3:10:31 GMT -5
Based on aerial photos of the site taken at the time and judging from the curve(s) in the road which look pretty much the same today, it looks to me like the burial site was at what is today 155 Hopewell Princeton Rd. (whether that's an actual house number or not, or just Google Maps' approximation, I don't know).
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