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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 19:37:07 GMT -5
Thanks Michael for the information on the above men. I have been working on a list of people that knew Hauptmann and trying to find out a little more about each. It seems he knew alot of people, some better than others. Would you know what year Hauptmann started going to Hunter's Island? Most things I have read talk about the summer of 1932 and not much else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 11:15:36 GMT -5
Who was Pat Crowe? I have read that he was at one time a kidnapper and that he gave Gov. Moore of New Jersey his theory on the Lindbergh kidnapping. Can you share anything about him and what his theory was?
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2014 18:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2014 18:09:30 GMT -5
Thanks Michael for the information on the above men. I have been working on a list of people that knew Hauptmann and trying to find out a little more about each. It seems he knew alot of people, some better than others. Would you know what year Hauptmann started going to Hunter's Island? Most things I have read talk about the summer of 1932 and not much else. I want to go to his interrogations, and possibly his Autobiographies for this answer.
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2014 13:35:47 GMT -5
Would you know what year Hauptmann started going to Hunter's Island? Most things I have read talk about the summer of 1932 and not much else. According to Hauptmann it was in the Summer of 1928: This summer I went to Hunter's Island for the first time with my brother-in-law. This is an island in Long Island Sound. This was a place after my own heart, - unaffected, outdoor life, with all its delights. I could even take part in my beloved game of soccer, here. And the finest thing about it was that there were no commercial amusements as at so many other bathing beaches. That I had not already discovered this place in my wanderings about New York can only be accounted for by the fact that during the past 10 years I had almost no time to go anywhere. The Island was only four miles from my home and so it became our usual bathing place in the future. We spent almost all of our free time there. (From Hauptmann's "The Story of My Life", Autobiography, May 4, 1935, p142]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 17:03:50 GMT -5
So Hauptmann was going to City Island for six years, spending most of his free time there before he was arrested in 1934. He was playing soccer, swimming, picnicing and eventually canoeing there yet Hauptmann and Condon claim they never laid eyes on each other on City Island, not even once! Unbelievable.
Was Hauptmann's autobiography ever published? He obviously wrote this while in prison.
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2014 18:02:44 GMT -5
So Hauptmann was going to City Island for six years, spending most of his free time there before he was arrested in 1934. He was playing soccer, swimming, picnicing and eventually canoeing there yet Hauptmann and Condon claim they never laid eyes on each other on City Island, not even once! Unbelievable. Was Hauptmann's autobiography ever published? He obviously wrote this while in prison. Well this covers Hunter's Island. Hauptmann was using City Island to go to Hunter's Island after he bought his canoe which he was storing in Dixon's Boat House. But in any event your point is a good one. I believe they had seen each other previously. I don't believe Hauptmann's entire Autobiography was published. I do know some of it was printed, a piece at a time, in a series in one of the papers. Also, he wrote more then one too - that's why I cited what I did.
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Post by john on Feb 25, 2014 18:10:00 GMT -5
I'm curious, Michael, as to the size of Hunter's Island. It's much smaller than Coney Island, I would imagine. Do you know its precise measurements? If it's as small as I think it is (like a deer park, give or take, not several square mailes), it would be near impossible for Condon and Hauptmann to not have laid their eyes on one another, be familiar faces. There are literally dozens of familiar faces in the city neighborhood I live in. People I don't know at all, see all the time, recognize (and they recognie me). The Bronx is a huge borough, not a neighborhood as such, so this would likely not be the sort of place where people would recogize one another unless they live on the same street or "district". But Hunter's Island is, I believe, much smaller, probably was that sort of place. More like a neighborhood
John
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Post by Michael on Feb 25, 2014 21:12:16 GMT -5
I'm curious, Michael, as to the size of Hunter's Island. It's much smaller than Coney Island, I would imagine. Do you know its precise measurements? If it's as small as I think it is (like a deer park, give or take, not several square mailes), it would be near impossible for Condon and Hauptmann to not have laid their eyes on one another, be familiar faces. There are literally dozens of familiar faces in the city neighborhood I live in. People I don't know at all, see all the time, recognize (and they recognie me). The Bronx is a huge borough, not a neighborhood as such, so this would likely not be the sort of place where people would recogize one another unless they live on the same street or "district". But Hunter's Island is, I believe, much smaller, probably was that sort of place. More like a neighborhood John John, I think you mean City Island: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Island,_Bronx
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Post by john on Feb 26, 2014 3:03:05 GMT -5
My mistake. I did mean City Island. The identificaiton of islands business can be confusing...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 14:49:40 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Apr 3, 2014 19:04:56 GMT -5
Michael, I found the attached picture of Isidor Fisch the other day. It says it is from the Hauptmann family album. I was wondering if you would be able to identify the ladies with Fisch. Is one of them Gerta Henkel's Mom? I know that Anna Hauptmann is not one of the ladies. This is the first time I've seen this picture. I am not certain who they are but I do know Hauptmann was asked about most of his pictures. A problem exists though because the answer could be in one of his interrogations, a Report from one of the various Law Enforcement agencies, or it could even be in someone else's statement or reports, like, for example in this case Uhlig's. Then, after all of that, there could be another picture out there with Fisch and (3) women which would mean I could be wrong in assuming its this one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 7:55:34 GMT -5
I hear what you are saying. I just thought it might be Gerta and her family because Fisch and Uhlig were both close to the Kirstens. I like finding these pictures but it is frustrating not being able to identify all the people in them. Thanks for your comments.
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Post by Michael on Apr 5, 2014 9:00:24 GMT -5
I hear what you are saying. I just thought it might be Gerta and her family because Fisch and Uhlig were both close to the Kirstens. I like finding these pictures but it is frustrating not being able to identify all the people in them. Thanks for your comments. I believe this contains your answer and would explain why I do not recognize them. I do want to caution however that this report may be referring to a different picture but I have not yet found reference to anything similar:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 15:44:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the report. It could very well be the ladies mentioned in that report. I guess we will never know for sure. The picture was taken in 1928. Interesting that they would find this among Hauptmann's things. Maybe Fisch left some of his pictures with BRH when he (Fisch) returned to Germany.
For the "Who Was" topic of this tread I wanted to ask you who Otto Heyne is. Richard Cahill mentions him on page 297 of his book. His says that Otto and his wife were at the farewell party for Fisch. I don't know if he was a friend of Fisch or of Hauptmann or maybe a friend to both men. The name is not familiar to me. What can you tell me about him?
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Post by Michael on Apr 6, 2014 8:55:29 GMT -5
For the "Who Was" topic of this tread I wanted to ask you who Otto Heyne is. Richard Cahill mentions him on page 297 of his book. His says that Otto and his wife were at the farewell party for Fisch. I don't know if he was a friend of Fisch or of Hauptmann or maybe a friend to both men. The name is not familiar to me. What can you tell me about him? Heyne came to the U.S. from Germany in 1925, and became a citizen in 1930. He was employed by Proctor and Gamble continuously. He knew Hauptmann when they were in Germany, and went to visit him as soon as he learned he was in the U.S. He lived in Elizabeth, N.J.. He also claimed to have gone to Hunter's Island with Hauptmann, and that Hauptmann had visited him a couple of times to include after his marriage in the summer of '34. It was Heyne who took an envelope of (10) one-dollar bills to Hauptmann's mother during his vacation to Germany as a favor to Hauptmann. As Richard's book indicates, he was at that party.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 18:46:48 GMT -5
Michael,
What can you tell me about a man named Robert Edgar? Colonel Breckinridge was questioned about him by AG Wilentz at the trial:
Q - Do you recall a gentleman introduced to you by the late John Grier Hibben (President of Princeton University at the time of the kidnapping) by the name of Robert Edgar?
A - No sir, I do not.
Q - Do you know of any decoy letters - letters with symbols that were sent to Dr. Condon?
A - No sir, I don't.
Q - Do you recall being at Colonel Lindbergh's home on Easter Sunday, 1932?
A - When was the date?
Q - You have no recollection of having a conversation with Mr. Edgar in Colonel Lindbergh's library on Easter Sunday, 1932?
A - No sir.
I am not sure exactly what Wilentz is trying to do with this questioning. Was Robert Edgar on the list of defense witnesses and Wilentz was trying to neutralize him? Also the topic of decoy notes with the symbol on them being sent to Condon caught me by surprise. Would this be related to the Rice paper notes that Condon was getting?
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Post by Michael on Apr 7, 2014 9:39:58 GMT -5
I am not sure exactly what Wilentz is trying to do with this questioning. Was Robert Edgar on the list of defense witnesses and Wilentz was trying to neutralize him? Also the topic of decoy notes with the symbol on them being sent to Condon caught me by surprise. Would this be related to the Rice paper notes that Condon was getting? The information on Hibben at the NJSP Archives is woefully inadequate. I am not sure where the majority of his material got to but it isn't there. I do not know who Robert Edgar was, and I even had Mark double-check the indexes to make sure I hadn't missed him. But I do believe I know what this was all about I just can't tie Edgar into it because I have no idea who he is - all I have is what you pointed out. This is something I think should be in a book because it involves what I refer to as "new" facts no one knows about. Isn't it interesting Amy that we have all of these Experts writing books who have never noticed what you have in the short period of time you've been researching?
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Post by Michael on Apr 7, 2014 14:30:23 GMT -5
Robert Edgar was the Vice-President of the Scranton Sun. He is mentioned in Robert Thayer's notes which means he either spoke with him on the phone or in person.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 15:14:22 GMT -5
How disappointing that a lot of the Hibben file material has gone missing. No doubt Robert Edgar's name was in the missing material. Wilentz and Breckinridge must have discussed Edgar at length and decided on a trial strategy to head off anything that might have come up regarding what Edgar must have known. What a chapter you could have written on this angle alone!!! I hope you find a way to use this "new" fact even without Robert Edgar.
The Hibbens and the Lindberghs were close. Anne speaks highly about them in her diaries. She also credits Mr. and Mrs. Hibben with making the time spent living on the Rosedale farm while Highfields was being constucted especially nice for them.
Hibben was involved at the beginning of this case. He must have been privy to things not generally known initially. I think he also offered to act as go between for the Lindberghs. Lloyd Gardner in his book, The Case That Never Dies, page 48, tells how the Hibbens even agreed to entertain the two "underworld characters" (Spitale & Bitz) in their home. They would do anything to help the Lindberghs.
Sadly Mr. and Mrs. Hibben were involved in a car accident on May 17, 1933. Mr. Hibben died in the ambulence on the way to the hospital and Mrs. Hibben died a few weeks later from her head trauma injuries. Oddly, Ollie Whateley died in a Princeton hospital 6 days after Mr. Hibben on May 23, 1933. Like you said to me on another thread, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!
Well, Michael, sometimes people only see what they want to see, even researchers. I just try to do what you have always recommended when researching this case: start out neutral and don't give anyone the benefit of a doubt until you have checked them out. Its been working for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 15:21:26 GMT -5
Robert Edgar is mentioned in Thayer's notes? This is great!! I hope Thayer goes into some details about the conversation they must have had. I know that Thayer stepped away form the kidnapping case. There must have been a good reason he did that. Maybe Thayer was putting some things together and he didn't like what he saw. I hope whatever is in Thayer's notes it will prove useful for your book.
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Post by lightningjew on Apr 7, 2014 17:13:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 20:16:56 GMT -5
LJ, Good find! Hibben thinks it is gangsters and they always intended to kill Charlie. This more or less works with the theory of the 3 hired kidnappers who are paid to take Charlie and kill him. Hibben, of course, thinks it is a genuine kidnapping for ransom who is what everyone was supposed to see it as.
There were several good articles on that page. Did you read the one titled "Colonel Leads Hunt for Clues"? In the paragraph with the heading "Lindbergh leads Party" you will read that starting at the foot of the ladder, Colonel Lindbergh led the party along the trail which had been followed for two miles from the house the day after the kidnapping. This is not the boot trail we have all been talking about. This sounds more like the long hike to the REAL Featherbed Lane!
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Post by lightningjew on Apr 7, 2014 20:30:20 GMT -5
I did see that, yeah. I didn't know about a footprint trail that went for 2 miles. I don't know if it's Featherbed Lane though, since that was only a half-mile from the house.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -5
Michael,
Who is Mr. Brent? Wilentz mentions this man to Hauptmann during his questioning of Richard about his relationship with Anna. Wilentz says Hauptmann told Mr. Brent that he was not getting along with Anna anymore. I don't recall reading about anyone named Brent being a part of the Hunters Island crowd. Since Hauptmann is talking to Brent about his marriage (if this really happened), I would think Brent is someone who Hauptmann knew rather well.
Is there anything you can share about this man?
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Post by Michael on Jun 27, 2014 17:59:59 GMT -5
Who is Mr. Brent? Wilentz mentions this man to Hauptmann during his questioning of Richard about his relationship with Anna. Wilentz says Hauptmann told Mr. Brent that he was not getting along with Anna anymore. I don't recall reading about anyone named Brent being a part of the Hunters Island crowd. Since Hauptmann is talking to Brent about his marriage (if this really happened), I would think Brent is someone who Hauptmann knew rather well. Is there anything you can share about this man? I was going to ask you for the page number of the trial transcript but I believe I know so it shouldn't be necessary... One of Hauptmann's friends was William Berndt who lived in Astoria, Long Island. He was interviewed by Special Agent Nolan just days after Hauptmann's arrest. During this interview he told the Agent things like they "never discussed the kidnapping," and that he "never asked where his money came from" and "never saw any gold notes but wouldn't know what they looked like if he did".... Stuff like this. So he's not saying anything damaging to Hauptmann. However, he does say that he suspected Hauptmann was seeing another woman during the course of the past 3 or 4 months because, on several occasions, Hauptmann requested he cover for him if Anna would happen to ask him where he had been the night before by saying he had stayed at his home.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 19:38:05 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Sept 9, 2014 20:19:11 GMT -5
Michael, Have you ever come across a Mrs. Andrew Hausenbauer and her little daughter Alberta when researching this case? This lady was a neighbor of the Lindberghs in Hopewell. She claimed that Charles, Anne and little Charlie came by her house several times while Highfields was being constructed. Mrs. Hausenbauer said the Lindberghs were interested in her daughter as a possible playmate for Charlie in the fall. Andrew J. Hausenbauer lived near Lindbergh Lane. Andrew was interviewed several times, and his Wife was present during at least one of the interviews. Nothing in the reports about any visit from either of the Lindberghs. Since I know this would be important information then I don't believe the caption. I have a vague recollection of some Neighbors meeting Anne, but I think it was on an occasion when some were over to see Highfields being built when they ran into her. It could be the topic of their children came up or something to that effect. Or it could just be more Reporters creating fluff for their report.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 16:57:29 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Sept 11, 2014 19:45:22 GMT -5
I have one more for you Michael. What can you tell me about Hans Heinzmann? He says that Hauptmann frequented his Bavarian Beer Garden in the Bronx. Was this verified by LE? I am posting a link to his picture. Yes, this place wasn't far from the apartment: Attachment Deleted
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