Anyone have theories on what happened to the ransom money that was never recovered? Did Hauptmann have another hiding location that was never discovered? Did someone else have part of the money and successfully laundered it, potentially outside of the country?
I have heard different amounts thrown about, but wasn't roughly half the ransom bills not recovered?
Anyone have theories on what happened to the ransom money that was never recovered? Did Hauptmann have another hiding location that was never discovered? Did someone else have part of the money and successfully laundered it, potentially outside of the country? (RMC)
While I don't think Hauptmann had anymore anywhere else, I do think the combination of the other theories are what's going on. For example, if you believe Steinweg had ransom, then Gartner disposes of it in Europe. There were others laundering, and may have even laundered for Hauptmann too. After Hauptmann's arrest, even with the "lax" attempts to search for them - some were being found coming in. So the problem here is two-fold.... Police became disinterested and so, the Banks and other establishments - whose only motivation was reward from the Police - waned to the point where I am quite sure money was passing into their establishments unchecked.
Once Hoffman gets on the ball its almost too late. Much is lost. And when Uhlig tells Lewis he had been hearing money was purchased - then burned - I am thinking there were many who may have done something similar to this.
I have heard different amounts thrown about, but wasn't roughly half the ransom bills not recovered? (RMC)
I can look this up for you. There's a grand total after Hauptmann's arrest. Then there's some that comes in while he's in prison attributable to him. Then there's the amount coming in which isn't and "spooks" the Police into becoming deliberately indifferent.
P.S. to the reference to the Lewsiton paper above -- look for the page number on the actual newspaper.
And, some people believe part of the ransom money is in Churchill, Canada.
This is online:
1932 - Angus MacIver, a guide, takes a tourist across the river to Prince of Wales Fort and finds the mans behaviour suspicious. Claiming to be a reporter for the Chicago Herald, the man showed a great deal of interest in the north wall, and disappeared for one hour refusing to say where he had been. Two years later the "tourists" picture is seen in the paper by MacIver. The man was Bruno Hauptmann, the man convicted of kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. Is it possible he buried the $20,000 ransom in US gold certificates near the north wall when he disappeared for the one hour? (The certificates are worthless today and the park is protected against vandalism.)
I have a recollection about this, however, if my memory serves me correctly - I have only seen it in the papers and never in the reports. In one of those articles they denied it. I'll have to dig around and get back to you.
According to Lt. Finn's Report to Breslin (9-28-34):
Up until Hauptmann's Arrest (9-19-34)
$5 = 114 ($570)
$10 gold certs. = 429 ($4290)
$20 fed resrv. = 4 ($80)
$20 gold certs. = 4 ($80)
Once Hauptmann is arrested they find
$20 gold cert = 1 ($20)
In the garage on 9-20-34
$10 gold certs. = 390 ($3900)
$20 gold certs. = 493 ($9860)
In the garage on 9-25-34
$10 gold certs. = 84 ($840)
Between 9/25 thru 9/28 turned in by Local Banks
$20 gold certs. = 3 ($60)
$5 = 1 ($5)
Total "break down" as of 9-28-34
$5 = 115 ($575)
$10 fed reserv. = 0 ($0)
$10 gold certs. = 907 ($9070)
$20 fed reserv. = 4 ($80)
$20 gold certs. = 4 ($80)
Total = $19, 685
Last Edit: Mar 28, 2010 11:17:04 GMT -5 by Michael
I wonder if all bills that surfaced were accounted for.
I posted this a couple of times in the past. This is from a Maryland newspaper (not sure which one, but know that it is from Dorchester Country. Check out a map of Maryland; it is an odd-shaped state!)
RANSOM NOTES FIND WAY HERE (Date penciled in: February 4, 1935)
Part of Lindbergh Ransom Money Found Two Years Ago In Dorchester County Post Office
Julian B. Brinsfield, post master at Reid's Corner, Md., two years ago received fifteen dollars in bills which was identified as a part of the Lindbergh ransom money.
Mr. Brinsfield stated that he believed the money was picked up by truck drivers in either New York or New Jersey, and thence found its way to Maryland.
The money was turned over to the Government for tracing.
No, all of the bills were not accounted for. Especially the gold bills there's about $ 30,000 missing in actual bills. Interestingly a bill turned up for example in Atlantic City at a fruit vendor in 1946. Significant - who knows.
I am new to this group. I have a 1928 $10 Gold Certificate that was given to me by a former postal employee who said that he was working in a post office back at the time of the kidnapping. Someone turned this bill in to him. He claimed that it was one of the bills from the kidnapping. This happened after the trial of Hauptmann, so he kept the $10 note. Does anyone know of how I can check the serial number of the bill to see if it was in fact one of the bills from the kidnapping? I have been looking on the internet but can't find a list of the serial numbers.
According to Foley's report, Hauptmann had almost $50,000 in net assets (or stock market losses) at the time of his arrest. Around $15,000 was found hidden in his house and over $5,000 were known to have been passed, but obviously more than that had actually been passed. All in all, I'd guess that pretty much all of the ransom money could be accounted for, either in the form of notes or assets Hauptmann had, such as credits of thousands of dollars at various retailers or banks, adn losses in stock speculations ($7,000).
But when all of the source documentation is considered this was just a tactic used to pin all of the money on Hauptmann when there's evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, why on earth would Wilentz ask Hauptmann where the "rest" of the money was if He believed that? Didn't he already know? Didn't he read any of the Reports?
You better believe he did.
The Trial was part real and part show. Much was embellished and/or slanted.
Here is another Memo along the lines of money "not recovered." I haven't spent much time chasing this one down so here it is for anyone interested to look into it:
Michael, I can't say I'd give a whole lot of credence to the possibility of a gangster conveniently having almost $500 in Lindbergh ransom money on his possession nearly ten years after the fact. This type of story persisted for decades after the fact, and must have been good for reader thrills. That's not to say the money might not have been planted in an attempt to finger someone years later, but I have serious doubts over the veracity of the story.
I believe there is good reason why Wilentz and others questioned Hauptmann over the remainder of the ransom. To begin with, very little of the original 50K was actually recovered (a little over 5K) through the banks and retail establishments. This of course is not surprising within a city the size of NYC and surrounding area but it still represents a huge unknown, when one considers how much might have gone out into circulation and was never recovered, or held onto. And assuming the accounting practices used at the trial to show that Hauptmann benefitted just a few dollars short of the original 50K, are partially suspect, who's to say he didn't have another thousand or two stashed away somewhere? He had already been proven a barefaced liar with the multiple stashes in the garage. I really don't think they were trying to account for every dollar here but they did want to know for sure if he had any more money squirreled away. I don't blame them.
Michael, I can't say I'd give a whole lot of credence to the possibility of a gangster conveniently having almost $500 in Lindbergh ransom money on his possession nearly ten years after the fact. (Joe)
You could be right Joe. I don't know, and I haven't spent any quality time on it yet.
This first post relates to the central tenet of the Genau report, that Hauptmann deposited some $26,000 in cash following the kidnapping. I have analysed the Genau report. It is a disingenuous accounting, misleading and perhaps even dishonest. It basically says "here are all Hauptmann's cash deposits, add them up and it comes to $26,000". But of course there was churning between accounts. (Rab)
Franks testimony shows they were trying to pin the entire 50K on Hauptmann. Why? Well if all the money was accounted for by and thru Hauptmann - how could there be any Confederates? That was the idea. It doesn't work regardless, but it not true nevertheless.
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2012 18:04:12 GMT -5 by Michael
The statement that the Lindbergh ransom notes have no value today is not accurate. These are highly rare and valuable Series 1928 US Gold Notes. While they are no longer backed by Gold Coin, they have a strong value in the collector community and would sell for many times their face value depending on condition. These Gold Notes were series 1928, the last ones issued. They were called in by President Roosevelt in 1933 and as such, saw very little circulation. Also, over and above their collector value, they would undoubtedly sell for a fortune as authenticated Lindbergh ransom notes! There would be no doubt as the FBI has a serial number for every one of the ransom notes.
That's probably true, but having one would be like owning a piece of known to the art industry stolen artwork. Technically the bills would still be the property of the Lindbergh family taken from them by serious felony. The money would have to be secretly owned and sold via the black market.
Since this was a murder case the Statute of Limitations does not apply.
When I first started on these sites I heard of LKC bills for sale on eBay but have never seen an actual ad for any. There are, I understand, replicas available.
If anyone is really interested in this I know someone who claims to have had "Lindbergh Bills" and could check with them as to their thoughts regarding the advisability of physically owning any - also the possible availability of same.
It could be not just improper, but illegal to own such money, as I believe simply owning the bad artwork would be unlawful.
After reading Larson's "The Garden of the Beasts" I concluded that James Warburg crossed the Atlantic with a portion of the ransom money and deposited it on the third floor of the living quarters of U.S. Ambassador Dodd in Berlin, a buiding that had been a Warburg mansion and was leased to Dodd for a ridiculously low price (for such a later use)with the stipulation that no one was allowed on the third floor where a Jewish banking family was permitted to live! Dodd's secretary was H.B. Swope's sister. Swope was Best Man at Mobster Arnold Rothstein's wedding and introduced Warburg to Rothstein's Friday night mob poker game. The last page of Larson's book shows an empty lot - all that remains of the address. I'd have gone over to do an Al Capone's vault search if it had survived. Yet, someone should concentrate on Germany being the location of ransom money - check offerings etc.
Yes Germany . I surmise that most of the ransom money was "washed" at the German Consulate in New York. Think about it! Sounds plausible? The German spies that were dropped ashore on Long Island, in the 1940's, had Gold Certificates. Has anyone checked the spies certificates with the ransom money??
Post by hurtelable on Dec 20, 2015 22:12:00 GMT -5
The German spies that were dropped ashore on Long Island, in the 1940's, had Gold Certificates. Has anyone checked the spies certificates with the ransom money?? (geld)
That would have been interesting, but it's doubtful that the German spies' bills were checked against the Lindbergh ransom bill list. About a decade had passed by the time the German spy incidents occurred, the Lindbergh Kidnap case had been "solved" according to federal and state law enforcement, and the LKC had been forgotten by just about the entire public with WWII occupying the nation's attention.
Thanks HURTELABLE ;for your reply. If the spies certificates are in the FBI files than they can still be checked against the ransom numbers. Who has to clout to do this?? Did anyone record the spies certificates numbers??
Post by hurtelable on Dec 22, 2015 15:27:15 GMT -5
If the spies certificates are in the FBI files than they can still be checked against the ransom numbers. Who has to clout to do this?? Did anyone record the spies certificates numbers?? (geld)
Those serial numbers of the gold notes connected to the German spies as well as the serial numbers of the gold notes connected to the Lindbergh ransom MIGHT still be in the files of the FBI and/or the US Treasury Dept.
My guess would be that, since a comparison of those serial numbers would be of no practical interest at this point when the investigations of both cases have been officially closed for decades, it might be possible to file Freedom of Information Act requests with either or both agencies if you interested from an historical academic perspective in comparing those lists. That's no guarantee that they would release the information, even if they had it.
The government wouldn't be doing this cross-checking themselves in the absence of serious political pressure brought to bear, and it would be hard to conceive of circumstances where that might happen.
Last Edit: Dec 22, 2015 15:29:27 GMT -5 by hurtelable
Michael: Talked to him a couple of months ago.
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stella7: Sorry for the short notice but there’s a documentary on Anne Morrow Lindbergh on at 8:30 tonight. Channel 23 New Jersey Public Television
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wolfman666: the half hour one made in 2017? it was very good
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