It's Michael's (and others) Pro & con and brainstorming. It's Rick's (and others) look at a different theory. It's KevKon's (and others) focus on evidence which seems firm, that make for an excellent balance, to me. It's the absolutes of a stick of wood, a smallish portion of the ransom figure and a Lone Wolf being electrocuted as the solution to the LKC, which I strongly question.
I'm not good at imagining the Lane conditions, etc, but it does cross my mind to wonder if the kidnappers purposely chose that less conspicuous exit from the territory. If the Hopewell/Amwell Rd would seem to others as the more logical escape route ,I wonder if they therefore avoided that(?) Were the kidnappers considering a quick discovery at the house and someone trying then to give chase(?) Did they consider (what actually did happen) an immediate police alert(?)
Well, you know that "stick of wood" is a little like Robinson Crusoe finding a set of footprints on his beach, it just can't be ignored. Actually, Mairi your post is well taken. And for the record, there is no way that I find the "lone wolf" theory plausible. I hope that my efforts regarding the ladder have helped to justify that conclusion. Unfortunately, my experience and knowledge is somewhat limited, so when it comes to issues such as the Featherbed Lane travel route, I find it best to argue it out and find a consensus. Personally I would, for my own reasons, like that route to be plausible. Unfortunately I just can't see it as a practical reality. Anyone venturing down that cow path at night and in March would be rolling the dice and I am afraid they would be loaded.
Hi KevKon~I liked your footprints/Robinson Crusoe comment. I agree with you that the wood can't be ignored--and you've done some great work with your knowledge, replicas and reenactments. My comment was just to say I don't think the case is a slam-dunk or anywhere near solved, yet. Regarding Featherbed Ln, you may be right. My musings on the matter may have been unconsciously triggered by the following. I moved out here to the country in the (steep) mountains after I was an old girl. I then learned to drive for the first time. Decided I was going to find an ancestral cemetery. Well, I drove up and abit around roadless pastureland part the way straddling foot or more deep tractor trenches and made it to the top of that mountain! I can't say if that was skillful driving or a lucky fool's folly! ;D My mountainous country roads (and un-roads) here may have made me too much the optimist about Featherbed Ln.
What we know is that someone pulled into Featherbed Lane and appeared to have gotten stuck. This eyewitness account was from the Conovers between 6:30PM & 7PM well before the crime occurred (I think). I've said this before so its no secret - I believe the snatch occurred right around 8PM. Everyone, even the locals, said if you didn't know your way around you would become lost.
And so, suffice to say, they knew their way around.
From what we know, I think it highly unlikely that after 8PM anyone is using Featherbed to escape and I don't care if its the car with the child or not. Featherbed may have been utilized to park the car very near Amwell Road in order to keep it off of it and out of site but not for a means of escape.
Oscar Bush's statements must be treated with caution for several reasons.... The names of the roads seem to have been confused by Reporters, and as we see with Hopewell-Wertsville/Hopewell-Amwell roads, even the Police. I saw a newspaper report claiming the old abandoned road very near the ladder was Featherbed Lane (diagram and all).
What exactly did Bush see?
We have some book accounts, and newspaper reports but no Police Reports concerning these famous tales. Bush arrived at the scene well after the Police walked through these areas. And Bush had a terrible reputation in the Sourlands, in fact, his whole family was a suspicious lot. Then we have Keaton telling Sisk the NJSP didn't agree with the newspaper reports concerning the escape route to Featherbed.
I can only agree that naming the roads bordering Highfields both Wertzville doesnt help our cause:
Hopewell-Wertsville road to the West
Wertsville-Amwell or Wertsville-Strousberg road to the East
connected by Feather bed Land running East-West
I agree with Kevin that the walk from either Wertsville-Amwell Rd OR Featherbed Lane would require some sort of flashlight. This idea that "they" simply followed the lights in the house doesn't take into consideration the terrain (e.g. rocks, brush, trees, fill, "wild turkeys" etc.). It also doesn't explain why these people didn't go ass over head in that muddy yard. Michael
Why? As anyone knows when the wind is whipping even a mist will have you covered in no time. Now I notice you say above that a person is employing the ladder in a relatively short period of time.... This suggests the ladder and person(s) employing it were dropped off near the house? Surely if these people are trudging from either Featherbed Lane or Hopewell - (Amwell or Wertsville) Rd this wouldn't be true. Isn't this the "forgotten" variable here? I do agree that the actual "snatch" was a quick one based upon Ellis Parker's observations. If he is right they struck very near 8PM. Michael to Kevin
One thing you can see on the Hopewell Map (reply#46) is that there is yet another dead end lane coming off Hopewell-Wertsville road towards Highfields from the West.....Minnetowne Lane? Could footprints be leading here? This too is about the same distance as Featherbed from Charlies room--about 1/2 mile by foot? I agree it makes the most sense to use the olde driveway to drop off the ladder but then you/they risk the chance of running into CAL coming home. Great planning unless hes at the NYU dinner?
Shown is yet another small extention of Featherbed Lane going south and connecting to Hopewell-Amwell road? Its impossible to say if this route is open?
I will honor your 75th Anniversary challenge Rick by posting something I believe no one is aware of which I found during my research. It may not be earth shattering but I believe it is something worth knowing.
I will post it in the Members section sometime tomorrow. If you are not a Member please sign up for access to the Members area.
Hint: I'll post the link to this post here because it involves our recent discussion in this thread.
Last Edit: Feb 28, 2007 20:02:54 GMT -5 by Michael
I think the Strange Vehicle thread is not complete without the mention of Lou Harding. Harding testified that he saw a dark blue car carrying a ladder and two men on a highway near the Lindbergh estate and said positively neither man was Hauptmann.
(FYI to Members: New File in the Member's Only Thread)
Here's another "strange vehicle" sighting. I post it because its always interested me and I have never been able to find anything else on it anywhere. If you can read the handwritten note at the bottom it says:
what happened to-------> this investigation Lt. K.
Here's a report I found after finding reference to "bundle" lying on the side of the road in the teletypes. I knew if I looked hard enough I'd find the report:
Handwritten Note:
this checked by me and found to be load of paper J. J.L.
i have a fbi document that a person said of lindberghs house that it was a "goldfish bowl" another words without the curtains, you see all the movement in the house
ive seen that one. theres alot of them mike, they really dont add up to anything (Steve)
I can't agree Steve. Most don't. Some are "incomplete" due to lack of Police follow-up. Some are incomplete simply because I can't find the follow-up. And others, I have found, to be important - its just that no one saw or mentioned it in any book.
You see, despite all of our efforts, there's a lot of virgin snow left out there.
i know there unknown reports but i know alot lead to nowhere. i love the goldfishbowl one, how you been mike? hows the book comingalong? dont forget i have some good pictures
Book is slow. Still working on the 2nd chapter. It's all the sources thats the problem. I want to write about (1) fact and have 100 different sources I need to check before I move on. It's a rough endeavor. The 1st chapter alone will really piss some people off!
Too bad.
It's all true and backed up by facts many have never seen, and probably never will outside of when this gets put into circulation.
"Well, maybe that's true but it doesn't mean anything," they will say.
Steve: You'll be saying: "that can't be true, that can't be true".....
But it is true.
Live debates are impossible. All the person who doesn't know has to do is demand documentation. And so, if I were in any such debate, what am I supposed to do.....bring all of my files in a Mac Truck with me?
There's too much to know and most people basically give up thinking no one will do what I have done. Over 10 years now. 10 years. Checking, double checking, cross referencing, re-looking. I see a name, search my files, then make an appointment to go to the Archives. I don't shrug something off because I don't want to, or don't have the time to research it. I just go and do it.
I am still learning to this day!
The minute you think you know everything is the minute you've ruined your chances to solve this thing. No one knows everything. That's why this board is so important - its through our collective efforts and varying perspectives that we come closer to the truth then ever before.
Sue: I must have filed that document. That spells trouble because I don't remember where. I am going to search my ransom money files today in case that's where I might have put it.
"Search for Charles Lindbergh's Kidnapped Son Comes to Vermont" by Scott Wheeler Vermont's Northland Journal June 2010 Volume 9 (3): 14-15.
..."It was the only news on the radio," Beverley (Piatti) Queenin of Derby Line said, thinking back almost 80 years. "It was big news."
Mrs. Queenin said everybody knew the name Charles Lindbergh because only a few years earlier he'd flown across the Atlantic in his plane, the Spirit of St. Louis...
A nationwide search for the infant began immediately. The search even reached into Vermont, including in Orleans County. The following article appeared in the March 11, 1932 issue of the Newport Express and Standard (now The Newport Daily Express).
Mysterious Cars Seen in Vermont
Vermont was to have a part in the search for the missing son of Col. and Mrs. Charles A. Lindbergh, as the trail led to Barre and Rutland, Wednesday, and a clue was followed up from Newport, Thursday.
At about 12:30 o'clock Thursday, a call from Orleans reported that a Maine car, bearing registration 34688 and having as passengers a man and woman on the front seat and a small child wrapped in a robe on the floor of the rear compartment, was headed toward Newport.
Immediately upon receipt of the call, High Sheriff Solon Gray and Deputy Sheriff Alvin E. Tripp set out toward Coventry to intercept the party. The Maine automobile failing to make an appearance, the officers drove to Coventry to continue their search. Failing in their mission, they returned to Newport to check up on cars about the city, but were unable to locate the party described, and it is believed some other route was taken after leaving Orleans.
A green sedan passed an immigration officer Wednesday between Barre and Burlington. The car was traveling at high speed and moving toward Barre. The car bore New Jersey registration and contained a man and woman and a baby.
On Monday, a roadster, traveling east, passed a truck near West Woodstock having as passengers two men and what appeared to the truck driver as a baby wrapped in an army blanket between the men. This car bore New York registration, and was traveling at a fast clip. When approaching the truck the head lights were switched off.
Both of the latter clues were trailed up, but neither car was later found.
Everybody was hoping the baby would be found alive," Queenin said. Sadly, even after the Lindbergh family paid a $50,000 ransom, the search ended in death. On May 12, 1932, the infant's body was found only 4.5 miles from where he was kidnapped. Bruno Hauptmann was arrest and convicted of the crime and sentenced to death. He was executed on April 3, 1936.
As a side note to this article, the aviator's wife, Anne Morrow Lindbergh, was living in Caledonia County, Vermont, at the time of her death on February 7, 2001 where their daughter Reeve Lindbergh, still lives.
If one were curious about a specific sighting like this one they may not find an actual report in the files.
Why?
So many were coming in via teletype. The Troopers would take it to Lamb, Keaton, etc. etc. and they would direct the Trooper how to respond to it. Most of the time by asking the Authorities in that State to Investigate, again, by a return teletype request. Sometimes handwritten notes would be scrawled on this as a matter of follow-up but an actual report may not exist (in NJ anyway). But one may exist.... It's a long road to research this stuff.
I've been through every teletype at the Archives. If you remember me complaining about Jone's type-face in his book, well, its the same situation with these. Hundreds of thousands of mind-numbing little slips of paper with misspellings, bad keystrokes, and type that will cause dyslexia in anyone. I know I missed things just by the nature of it but also because I was just seeing letters at times that my brain wasn't processing....
***BTW
I am in the process of posting Sam Borstein's updated versions of his Research he has been so kind to share with me over the years. This is extremely valuable material for any Researcher and I encourage everyone to take advantage of Sam's kindness and generosity.
Laurence24: Et merci de m'avoir acceptée chaleureusement dans votre forum..
Mar 20, 2020 7:50:48 GMT -5
Michael: Je vais consulter le site. N'hésitez pas à publier ou à créer un fil de discussion sur le babillard à ce sujet. Vous pouvez également y poster un lien car je crains que beaucoup ne lisent pas cette shoutbox.
Mar 20, 2020 9:56:06 GMT -5
Laurence24: Moi qui comprend pas l'anglais, j'ai été surprise de sa première visite dans mon rêve, quand j'ai cherchée par mots clés, et que j'ai découvert qui il était ou ou il avait vécu, je me suis dis, wouah !! dans l'au delà, ils peuvent faire beaucoup de choses
Mar 20, 2020 10:41:07 GMT -5
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Laurence24: Bonjour et merci à vous Michaël,je viens de suivre votre conseil..
Apr 29, 2020 7:52:33 GMT -5
lilibean: I was sending a message to Michael Melsky
Jul 3, 2020 13:19:22 GMT -5
Michael: Hi Lili. Go ahead and send one via the DM/PM by clicking "Messages" above near Hauptmann's mugshot.
Jul 5, 2020 5:03:45 GMT -5
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geni: Not sure Im doing this correctly..I just joined, Fred Allhoff was my grandfather. Wondering what the "Fred Allhoff" collection referred to is..
May 24, 2022 13:03:09 GMT -5
Michael: Hi geni. I believe you are referring to the Fred Allhoff Photograph Collection. Kurt Tolksdorf purchased it off eBay some time ago. It consists of 28 photos he used for his various Liberty articles and a few were also used in Condon’s book.
May 24, 2022 14:40:16 GMT -5
geni: Thankyou, I think those I have copies of. Do you know how he and Condon knew each other?
May 26, 2022 12:57:32 GMT -5
Michael: I always believed it was thru the business of writing the Condon Liberty Articles then his book. I could be wrong though. I know that Governor Hoffman thanked Allhoff for his help in January 1936 as it concerned his questions about those articles.
May 26, 2022 18:58:55 GMT -5
Aimee: Stella7..... how can I ever prove this? Geeeze.
Jul 7, 2022 13:41:04 GMT -5
kris: Does anyone know where Charles and Whatley were when Anne heard the cat while she was at the window with Elsie close by? I've always felt like she did hear Charlie cry out and someone snook him away at that time.
Aug 26, 2022 16:14:03 GMT -5
hiram: In the spring tomcats have a distinctive cry in their desire to mate. This cry does not resemble the sound of a human infant
Oct 6, 2022 5:28:01 GMT -5
hiram: In the spring tomcats desiring to mate use a distinctive cry to attract interested females.This cry does not resemble the sound of a human infant in distress.
Oct 6, 2022 5:30:04 GMT -5
feffe08: Did the police check Fish activities the night of the kidnapping?
Jan 14, 2023 7:40:09 GMT -5
wolfman666: they didnt know who fisch was until 1934
Apr 30, 2023 15:34:12 GMT -5
eldorado: The ciphers of the Beale Papers are notorious and were used to deliver the location of gold and silver caches that were buried in Virginia when they were solved using a specific key.
Dec 19, 2023 0:13:25 GMT -5
eldorado: When you crack them you see the techniques of encryption that formed a pattern for the shadow govt that was operating in the White House behind the scenes, controlling the nation secretly. You find their patterns.
Dec 19, 2023 0:14:49 GMT -5
eldorado: When you find their patterns, you can generally track their movements and develop a timeline of events of a group of known operatives.....of which all communicate with ciphers.
Dec 20, 2023 4:22:12 GMT -5