Ransom Note's Vesica Pisces

[Michael]

You may be right about paying special attention to the first ransom note, Kevkon and I think the prosecutors were on the right track with the Blue, Red, Holes idea. (TAH)

A couple of thoughts....

If you agree with the theory concerning BRH, then one would have to accept that Hauptmann was thinking in English - not his native tongue of German.

Next, I agree with Kevin and Rick. This first note is different and so if you think it was the same party constructing and/or writing the succeeding notes, then one has to ask themselves why the differences exist then try to find evidence to prove or disprove the theory behind the why....

[TAH]

Michael, I was just trying to look deeper than just the obvious VP symbol at the other elements like the squiggles or Yods and the colors and arrangements and theorizing like others that maybe there was an initial or two which I guess now would have to be only the intials of the author of the first note which a subsequent author of the following notes simply copied.
But I can stick with the Vesica Pisces because of what seems to have transpired with the negotiations. The kidnappers reached out to members of theosophical groups as go-betweens. (Did Barrittella and Cerrita decide to play psychic instead?)

Going back to possible initials: If a witness who saw the car with the ladder says the passenger was a woman, then maybe the blue and red together mean Violet. You still have a possible S. And Sharpe was associated with a group that is theosophical. Altogether with her statements of that night might put her at the scene.

[kevkon]

I'm just not sure why everything must always be so complicated!

Look at the signature as a whole. That includes the specific method used to create it. It seems to me that there is a bias being employed which favors certain elements of the signature which are being emphasized. The vesica pisces is an interesting angle but unfortunately the evidence ( the notes) just don't bear out the fact of it's importance to the writer. The squiggles are similarly inconsistent in their formation and thus I see little to base anything solid on there either.
In short, if you imagine yourself as the writer and there was more to this signature than a simple means of making a unique identifier, then it stands to reason that more care would be employed in it's construction. In fact I would expect that it would be made with some sort of stamp that would provide a uniform result. You would certainly not expect to see such a variation and progression in it's formation. After all, there was plenty of time to prepare this in advance or at least that's what everyone claims, right?
There's something else that seems to escape notice about the first note and it has to do with a device which was common for that time. In fact there's a ton of them on EBAY. Can anyone guess what?

[TAH]

Spirograph?

[TAH]

The table brace confession leads straight to the Mersman Furniture Company of Ohio. My spider sense tingled when I read that today from the original 1948 newspaper article about the discovery. The table was new so the message looks like it came from the manufacturers end.
The manager wasn't interviewed. I would have based on the signature, faint or not, and Germans or anyone in or from a place like Ohio.

[Michael]

I will say that was an interesting observation TAH considering the Blue and Red making Violet. Never heard that one before so its seems you deserve credit for it.

I wanted to post the Authorities' observations on the Symbol, as a "control" for our discussion. Here is something from Lt. Snook. Snook would later become a Captain then eventually the Colonel. Although a Schwarzkopf man, his integrity was never questioned by anyone that I have ever found, and he seems to be a trusted man from anyone's side of things. And so he felt it necessary to send Schwarzkopf this Memo:

SYMBOL

Definite Points Established.

None.

Problematical.

1. Large Circles made Tops of Cork Black Ink Bottle

2. Small Circle Made with (Probably Waterman's) bottom of Cork of Red Ink Bottle.

3. Holes not all made at same time.

4. Symbol indicates sense of balance, symetry and beauty.

Recommendation

That further examination be made to determine how symbol was made.

It is further recommended that scientific examination be made of the ladder.

These suggestions are made as the result of contact with experts who have worked on the case. They are for the confidential information of the Superintendent and not to be interpreted as official opinions of the experts.

Lieut. R. A. Snook

Here's my guess to Kevin's challenge:

A Butterpress?

[mairi]

Kevkon and All
Have been reviewing the ideas on the "three holes". After working my thinking cap overtime trying to come up with something handy around the house/workshop, I did hit upon an idea. I know you all will think I've gone round the bend, ;D but that's OK--I'll grin and bear it. A door hinge. Took my tape measure to my front door, counted three holes and got a measurement of one inch between, as best I could see. If one lines up paper,encloses it with the hinge, drop the fat part over the edge of table (maybe have to use a vise)and use that kind of nail which doesn't have a big head on it upside down----well how's the chance? One part that frets me though is the hole which was shaped a bit differently.

[kevkon]

I think that's first rate, Mairi! That's exactly what really good detectives do. Do you think you can find a relationship between the edge of the hinge and the note?

Sorry Michael, no butter press. This device is much simpler and was a staple of the day. It was also used as a vehicle for advertisement!

[rick3]

3 Points made for Inauguration Day on Wash Mall:

• the vesica piscis is not a new or unknown symbol--it goes all the ways back to Pythagoras and the square-root of 3 triangle;
  
• although altered in most of its public reproductions, the essence of the symbol-singature was easily recognizable; especially by math teachers/geometry teachers/architects in the thousands; It appeared in Readers Digest and NYTimes.
  
• so why is there no record of somebody, anybody recognizing it up to the Ripper Notes? it doesnt really add up?
  

[mairi]

"relationship to edge of hinge and note?"
No, not to my front door hinge. Can't say that says anything to me though, what with a variety of hinge shapes and measurements. Also this day and time vs way back then. Next time I'm in a hardware store I'll take a look at various ones.
Of course I couldn't say door hinge is the answer. I just have some feeling it may have been something handy and at least relatively mundane. Criminals, as we know have that thinking flaw that they won't be caught, so I just have that feeling that implements used didn't have to be profoundly occult.

For the circles, is it an absolute that ink bottle lids were used? It seems to me that whatever it was would have to be open all the way through, so as to facilitate positioning over the holes. Any thoughts on that?

[TAH]

You may be right about the holes, Mairi. A carpentry solution is still a good one. Was it a standard in German table carpentry that the table brace confessor guessed at to create a hoax confession?

Jan 20, 2009 8:40:45 GMT -5 rick3 said:

[/li][li] so why is there no record of somebody, anybody recognizing it up to the Ripper Notes? it doesnt really add up?[/quote]
I studied Christian symbolism and never heard of it until got into Jack the Ripper research. The Vesica Pisces is featured prominently in the work of Ivor Edwards which is unfairly being crucified in Ripperology. From religious studies, I remember the almond or fish in the middle but not the circles. Modern Christianity seems to view the Vesica Pisces pagan, occult and therefore sinister. This bias may be why it's unknown in the "Christian" west and why I think it might narrow down the search. I'm still surprised at least one citizen who wrote in might have recognized it in 1938.

[kevkon]

I don't have any proof of it Mairi, but I too feel that the hole making pattern has a relationship to an everyday item. One thought was the item I alluded to since it has so many variations. I'll let everyone have some fun trying to identify it!

Rick, look at all of the note symbols and tell me that the Vesica Pisces is well defined. Why is it not if that is the important part of the symbol? If that was what you were attempting to convey, wouldn't you make certain it came out right? It's only cheap note paper, so why not throw out an ill-formed one and make it right? I just don't see evidence that the Vesica Pisces was what Hauptmann was trying to create.

[VeeP3]

Kev...the Nursery note was a complete hack job--we agree on that.

• The one Mark F. picked for his book cover is near perfect! Its one with the 3-leaf clover holes.
  
• Yes, but, in the Jersey Journal, the NYTimes and Readers Digest the symbol was not shown as "art" it was shown as two perfect circles line-drawn in black and white.
  
• So in reality(?) it was much easier to see it in the Press? Even if just plain folks didnt know the name they might well have recognized the plain form or shape--especially in the Crime of the Century? "hey Maud, Ive seen that befo?"
  
• Dont bright, motivated people read the NYT?
  

[Michael]

Excellent idea Mairi! The NJSP were looking for an "everyday" type of item so your idea was in line with their thoughts on the matter as well as Kevin's.

I think I posted on this some years ago (time goes by fast) but I figured I would again. Many people don't know that Rudolph Thielen, one of the Defense Handwriting Experts, did a study of the symbol - even going to Germany to search for clues. Despite the "Revisionists" claims of those who follow Jim Fisher's work, Thielen did not "quit" the Defense because he believed "Hauptmann wrote the notes."

Thielen would later volunteer his services to Gov. Hoffman and worked hand in hand with Lewis both before and after he was reinstated to the NJSP. He was often used as a translator for those German speaking people who did not understand, read, or write English when interviewed by Lewis. When studying the symbol he searched through the various Germanic Family Code of Arms and other symbols such as the triple circles etc. His reports are quite interesting especially since he returned to Germany to search for its possible origins.

TAH - I studied religion too, what we're taught in College would never be preached about in church, and so as you know, when converting the Pagans the Christians merged many of their beliefs with the Pagan ideas/customs. Touching on the Religious aspect of the case, Ronelle once suggested the crime was set up to appear like the Jewish Murder Ritual.

Rick - Do you believe the first note was made/written by someone different then the rest of the notes?

[rick3]

Rick - Do you believe the first note was made/written by someone different then the rest of the notes? Michael

YES--I am basing this on 3 points:

• The Dear Sirs arnt even close to Notes 2-3.
  
• The symbol-singnature (SS) isnt even close to Notes 2-3.
  
• Kevin sees this too and more.
  

Its one thing to claim that left-handed/ right-handed excuse for the handwriting--but that cannot account for the SS?
Its not that the Nursery Note is way out of line or out in left field because it holds all the essentially elements of generic content, colors and positioning of holes etc.--but the author/artist is no craftsperson and cant really assemble the symbolic elements symmetrically, as is required to make a certain point. I think they hand off the duties to a second ASAP?

"End of Times?"

"The zodiac contains two circles that intersect and form a Vesica Pisces. A Vesica Pisces is a very ancient symbol but was later adopted by Christians to symbolize Christ. Christians nowadays used them often as bumper stickers on their cars. Vesica Pisces means bladder of the fish. The symbol when displayed vertical is
also associated with birth since the shape represents the female birth canal and in ancient times was associated with the vagina of the female goddess. In Christian art we find examples where Christ is depicted inside the vertical Vesica Pisces.

Christianity of course is the new religion of our current age, the Age of Pisces. When we study the Vesica Pisces in the zodiac at Chartres we discover something very interesting. The intersection of the Vesica Pisces aligns with the Pisces-
Virgo axis in the zodiac. It is telling us that the Vesica Pisces must be associated with the Age of Pisces and it is suggesting an association with birth. It could be symbolizing the birth of Christ at the beginning of the Age of Pisces, but that of course is hardly a secret. It’s no coincidence that Jesus was born from a virgin
mother since Pisces and Virgo are opposite signs of the zodiac. They are connected by the symbol of birth the Vesica Pisces in the Chartres Zodiac! Since Jesus his birth date is no big secret, the Chartres zodiac is most likely symbolizing another birth in the Age of Pisces, a birth that’s very important.
There’s one very important astronomical birth happening in the Age of Pisces around era-2012 and that’s the rebirth of the Sun in the precessional cycle on the Galactic Cross. It means the beginning of a new precession cycle. Could it be that the Chartres Zodiac is meant to encode this event, a Great Celestial Conjunction?"

www.soulsofdistortion.nl/download/Great%20Celestial%20Conjunction%20Crosses%20part%20II.pdf

[TAH]

I have a local famous abduction case and what do you know....The father was a member of the World Wide Church of God and he once theorized his church took his daughter to save her from the conflicts of the parents separation.
Since I knew the church, having once been a believer, I started having a sneeking suspicion today that they used the Vesica Pisces. Here is their logo:

All I remembered was the globe. Not the fish symbol.

P.S. The first rendering of the ransom signature could just be done by someone more creative/artistic. Notice how Christians eliminate everything except the almond shape.

[kevkon]

As I said, I don't see how anyone can deduce from the note signatures that the vesica pisces was in anyway intended to be represented. It's an easy form to create, Mr Hauptmann obviously did not care to.
I also don't see, and I readily admit that I'm no handwriting expert, how one can look at and read all of these notes and not see overwhelming evidence that they were penned by the same hand. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that the paper, signature, and ink are the same. I think one has to really try to make a case for multiple writers and, quite frankly, I just don't see the reason. That is, unless, one starts out with a picture and then tries to make the pieces fit. Why do this? Is there any good reason?
I could make a much stronger case that the symbol is derived from something much more up Hauptmann's alley. I won't because it's too speculative and damning, yet it has a much closer relationship to the symbol than the vesica pisces.

[verne]

Jan 21, 2009 17:10:22 GMT -5 kevkon said:

As I said, I don't see how anyone can deduce from the note signatures that the vesica pisces was in anyway intended to be represented. It's an easy form to create, Mr Hauptmann obviously did not care to.
I also don't see, and I readily admit that I'm no handwriting expert, how one can look at and read all of these notes and not see overwhelming evidence that they were penned by the same hand. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that the paper, signature, and ink are the same. I think one has to really try to make a case for multiple writers and, quite frankly, I just don't see the reason. That is, unless, one starts out with a picture and then tries to make the pieces fit. Why do this? Is there any good reason?
I could make a much stronger case that the symbol is derived from something much more up Hauptmann's alley. I won't because it's too speculative and damning, yet it has a much closer relationship to the symbol than the vesica pisces.

You might want to axe that to Jersey Journal, NYTimes, Readers Digest and Wallers book cover?

[kevkon]

I'm not sure what "axe that" means, but regardless of what particular note symbol was picked, it's a moot point. Look at all of them and especially the first. Is the vesica pisces clearly and definitively defined? The answer is clearly and irrefutably no. I'd say that pretty much nixes the whole issue. That is unless you would rather ignore the obvious and pursue this for some reason beyond my comprehension.

[TAH]

Reilly testified that Hauptmann went to California in 1931. Need I say more? Is there any denial that the kidnapper(s) ellicited help from theosophiscal persons as go-betweens?
If you search Google Images for Philip K. Dick who went "to California", you'll find one with a vesica pisces on his forehead.

[AnonA]

Amazon.com: The Moonchild: Aleister Crowley: BooksMoonchild is a visionary, metaphysical novel of the highest order. Crowley provides an elegant and mysterious exploration of the realms of magick, ...
www.amazon.com/Moonchild-Aleister-Crowley/dp/0877281475 - 310k -

[kevkon]

Now I know how Michael felt, you have lost me!

[fg]

TEH--good call on BRH/1931. There are likely more secrets to be discovered before the kidnap clock starts tiicking than afterwards.
I think somethings have been overlooked as regards the BRH trips & finances in 1931, and also the Lindberghs stint at White Cloud Farm down on Cold Soil Road with the airstrip.

There are some other links that need following up on:

Theosophy<<<Condon<<<Samuelson<<<BRH>>>Fisch>>>Temple of Divine Power>>>Theosophy

"Was it Isidor Fisch?" He died in Germany.
"No, no, no," Mary Cerrita suddenly said, "Fisch had nothing to do with it. She was a woman".
"Was it Violet Sharpe?"
Mary Cerrita shrugged her shoulders. "If a person is not guilty they will not commit suicide".

Theon Wright and Joe Dunninger pg 89 ISOTLB.

[TAH]

Thanks fg. Back on page one, I made going "to California" a criterion for believing BRH could have made the VP signature. I pick California because it's the most travelled and therefore put it in quotes.

Jan 14, 2009 20:43:46 GMT -5 @TAH said:

Michael, I wouldn't think Bruno Hauptmann could have picked up the symbol in the US unless he went "to California" or joined the Freemasons.

I disregard questions about clarity and intention, Kevkon. Do you see the intent to suggest the Vesica Pisces in the Moonchild cover? Sirhan Sirhan's diary contains doodled circles. Here's the top of one page. There are more on the bottom if you search for the image of the full page.
www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/a/a2/Photo_rfk_SirhanDiaryMay18.jpg

[kevkon]

I disregard questions about clarity and intention TAH

Yes, I can see that. It seems to be fashionable with those who already have the answers.
Not having the answers, I have little choice but to listen to what the evidence has to say.

[Michael]

What I think is interesting is even after all of these notes, and the child turning up dead that the Police certainly believed multiple Parties were involved. And so with that said, was the "secret symbol" a collective effort or a singular one?

Confidential Note:::: This is not For Publication:::

The special questionnaire is of the same kind that resulted in the establishing of bulletins of instead of the questionnaires and the prefacing remarks are unnecessary and quite evidently made without any appreciation of our attempts to co-operate with the press. The bulletins that have been given out to the press have in each instance been statements of fact and it is pointed out that no statement made by us had to be retracted (after the word press in 6th lind in this paragraph should read: by this headquarters have in each instance etc.) by any newspaper. Attention is also invited to the fact that our main effort at this time is to determine the identity and the apprehension of the kidnappers and the murderers. And matters irrevalent[sic] there to are an interference with the accomplishment of this purpose.

It is not known exactly when we will move our headquarters to trenton, but it will probably be in the near future.

(Col. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, 5-24-32, 9:44PM)

[rick3]

Jan 26, 2009 8:51:25 GMT -5 Michael said:

What I think is interesting is even after all of these notes, and the child turning up dead that the Police certainly believed multiple Parties were involved. And so with that said, was the "secret symbol" a collective effort or a singular one? Michael

Michael--what I find interesting/engaging is the overall complexity of the symbol-signature. Pseudo artwork requiring "balance and color" plus some sort of psuedo-carpentry or leatherwork required in "punching the holes? this is no random or fly by night simplistic undertaking. If there is some conscious or subconscious purpose or warning involved then it gets even more puzzling: "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key" Winston Churchill (1939) This alone could suggest two or more persons--each supplying a part of the whole? Since the symbol itself suggests a union of opposites--why not its creators?

For instance, the first piece of paper is torn in half to make two notes, but the holes were not punched at the same time as they differ in shape? Whats with that? Do we know the sequenced grouping of the holes? Usually, artists dont carry hammer and punches?

[kevkon]

You really feel the signature is a complex undertaking??
It's not even executed well.
How many people does it take to make three holes and some circles?

[vovina]

I am tempted to answer " One to hold the center and two to rotate themselves ! " ( LOL! ) A possible hypothesis could be that the symbol refers to two of McLean's jewels : the hypothetical target of criminal(s). However, until McLean's movements prior to the events surrounding the kidnap are verified ( documents, documents ), one might only be seeing " jesus-in-the tortilla "!
The poorly executed nature of the symbol reminds me of Whittaker's scrawl when taking chess notation and/or signing his name to miriad driver's licenses: a mishmash of block print and standard Legal Palmer's ! But Handwriting analysis is iffi at best and very problematic when comparing writing with " graphic design ".

[kevkon]

Maybe its a Polish conspiracy ;D