Joe
Lt. Colonel
Posts: 2,652
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Post by Joe on Dec 11, 2008 8:52:58 GMT -5
There are two completely unrelated issues here. Lindbergh's personal affairs and the delusions of a mentally ill German carpenter from the Bronx. The two men are connected only through Lindbergh's fame and the latter's decision to act on these delusions, forcing two separate worlds to collide. Perfect breeding grounds for a good conspiracy..
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Post by Wheres Waldo on Dec 11, 2008 16:41:56 GMT -5
Maybe its just my liberal arts bias but what do either of the following two comments have to do with actual photos of CALjr? Maybe the thread ran offen the course? I think we answered that with the dearth of concrete replies? Maybe these are runaway computer generated replys: A/ There are two completely unrelated issues here. Lindbergh's personal affairs and the delusions of a mentally ill German carpenter from the Bronx. The two men are connected only through Lindbergh's fame and the latter's decision to act on these delusions, forcing two separate worlds to collide. Perfect breeding grounds for a good conspiracy.. B/[quote author=kevconboard=general thread=?? So why would CAL allow another potentially "defective" baby to come along? Why take the chance ? Where and how did Lindy connect with Mr Hauptmann? Which of his funds were used to pay for the whole operation?
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Post by Michael on Dec 11, 2008 17:36:31 GMT -5
Yes, there's something there which I think can connect someone else.
Who said he did? Could he get divorced? Would he get divorced? Did someone let him know the defects could have been caused by his trans-continental flight?
He wouldn't have to directly connect up with anyone involved, unless there's another insider if in fact he was the "insider" I suspect was involved in the first place.
Did the Police look into his funds? If they did I missed that part of the investigation which I am quite sure would have been done today if the same thing occurred. You can look at various other things, outside of the kidnapping, then ask yourself where the money came from for it. There is no answer unless someone checked it out. Who should we ask? Scott Berg? He didn't even know about the German women. I mentioned secrets before haven't I? They were well kept.
Absolutely a big difference between the two in many ways. But then again there was between Hauptmann and Fisch too. More that I am uncovering the more I read these reports. Anyone could make this claim Joe, if they stood accused of involvement. It doesn't matter if its Lindy or not. However, Lindy's beliefs echoed the Nazi path of things - so don't go overboard in your defense of him concerning what he would or would not do.
There absolutely was a conspiracy. If two or more people planned then executed this crime then a conspiracy exists. The crime must be properly investigated to bring about its logical conclusion. If Lindbergh wasn't involved then he so be it BUT merely saying he wasn't because say....he's not "like" that - doesn't fly with me. He was like that in my opinion.
The mindset is the primary tool for the motive to exist in the first place.
It's all logical progression of things which can easily be upset or ruined. I won't abandon the idea if it hasn't gotten to that point yet - quite the contrary.
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Post by rick3 on Dec 12, 2008 2:18:00 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more. So why would CAL allow another potentially "defective" baby to come along? Why take the chance ? Where and how did Lindy connect with Mr Hauptmann? Which of his funds were used to pay for the whole operation? Kevin--you are raising some provocative questions which go beyond my original thoughts: 1. Lets quess that Charlie started to get "sick or sicker" after his summer in North Haven even though noone said so? 2. Its possible the Family could occasionaly borrow kids from the Little School to coverup Charlie visiting a hospital? Michael mentioned they even adopted one child along the ways? Noone would be the wiser as long as there werent any photos? 3. The Arthur W.Jones letter sent to Gov Brenden Byrne provides us with partial answers......a) Charlie Jr was deaf and dumb? b) CAL hired Condon in January 1932 and paid him $12-14,000 dollars to set up a kidnap out of his own funds? www.state.nj.us/state/darm/links/guides/sintr003.html4. Condon acted as the intermediary between BRH and Abe Samuelson in the Bronx to construct the ladder. Someone, maybe Fisch or Ralph Hacker picked it up and nailed it together. 5. As for motives--maybe the Family merely wanted to maintain its own privacy and not aire its genetic defects in public? Who does? Maybe they just wanted to keep up their own dreams and illusions in the face of multiple medical problems? 6. Elizabeth has a heart defect, Dwight Jr. is schizophrenic, and now the babe of the family is not maturing at a normal rate? 7. Maybe they all had PTSS after Senator Morrow died suddenly in October 1931? CAL becomes head of the family. 8. Primary conclusion: its an inside job !(Al Dunlap)
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Dec 12, 2008 9:24:26 GMT -5
Sounds like you're doing exactly what others have done and continue to do; start with a conclusion and look to make the pieces fit. I don't get this approach. Perhaps you could explain the rationale behind it? I'd also have to ask the same tired question; where is the evidence?
I still don't understand why Lindbergh would take such a drastic action as to get rid of his firstborn child because of an extreme eugenic position and yet allow his wife to go on with another potentially genetically flawed child. I also don't see anyway in which a person of Lindbergh's stature could plan and execute a crime like this without leaving any trace of his actions. Please explain just exactly how he could get involved with Hauptmann, communicate and plan the crime, and pay for it without leaving the slightest trace of thee actions. It's easy to just say he did it, it's much more difficult to explain it in real terms. Bottom line, I don't really know what CAL was or wasn't capable of, but I do know that there sure as hell would be a trail of the actions required to make a crime like this happen.
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Post by Michael on Dec 12, 2008 13:16:34 GMT -5
I haven't drawn any conclusions yet. I do believe that someone on the inside was involved. I could be wrong and readily admit that I could be. I also suspect a local may have been but not anywhere near the strength I believe holds the insider theory together.
There is a bunch of things that causes me to look at Lindbergh. There's also a bunch of things which cause me to look at Gow. And of course there are things that cause me to look at others as well. I won't simply dismiss them because its Lindbergh. He knew many people and he was a smart guy. Would he do the job himself, or would he have a trusted man do the leg-work thereby insulating himself? Would he take over the investigation or let the Law Enforcement Professionals do their jobs? Would he block lie-detector tests of the Staff for reasons that make no sense like tell some he completely trusted them while telling others he did not? Then what does he testify to? And he's not Jafsie Condon so there's no excuse...(there's no excuse for him either but many like to give him one).
It all needs to be looked at. That's all I am saying. I won't skip over anyone - especially those with the means and the motive.
As far as his second child...I think I touched on this before. He was very good friends with the King of all Eugenics. I have no idea what he may or may not have told him. I don't know what others may have informed him that flight might have done to his unborn. The newspapers were reporting that he flew so high and so fast that his gauges broke on his instrument panel. This wasn't a pressurized cockpit. Do we know if the next child was planned for? It's not like there isn't a scenario where this second pregnancy could occur.
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Post by rick3 on Dec 13, 2008 12:26:16 GMT -5
I totally agree....noone ever said that anyone was trying to "get rid" of anyone--especially Charlie Jr. At this juncture, we dont really know what happened and we dont know what everyones motives were--maybe just to hide the Truth? From who...well maybe AML? Maybe from the public/ maybe from police?
After all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions? (Or to CYA) The motive for the phoney kidnap setup could be:
1. To hide Charlie Jr. from the Thomas F. Rice kidnap? Maybe wisk him away to North Haven Island? (you cant kidnap him if hes not there) 2. To coverup Charlie trips to the hospital (Johns Hopkins University for one)? or related medical problems? 3. To coverup an untimely accident or injury? 4. To coverup for Elizabeth or Dwight Jr. or Miss Alva Root? 5. To coverup an untimely death? 6/ To coverup parental misconduct? (common one)
Note added: the reason the servants werent lie detected is because one or more were lying/ or knew the Truth. It was CAL that kept that from happening says Al Dunlap.("Bungling the Lindbergh Kidnap Case"--Startling Detective Adventures Feb 1933)
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Dec 14, 2008 8:27:10 GMT -5
You gotta be kidding, right?
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mairi
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Post by mairi on Dec 14, 2008 11:20:10 GMT -5
Betty Gow tells a nurse acquaintance that Charlie is deaf-mute because of CAL taking him up in airplane (Jones) Edna Sharpe is quoted, in ref to the second baby, "Maybe they'll take better care of this one".
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Dec 14, 2008 13:41:18 GMT -5
Wow, I never felt Hauptmann deserved the chair before. But after all of this great info on Charlie I can see why he deserved to fry. Can you imagine doing what he did to a poor neglected, deaf-mute, square headed, soft boned, vitamin deficient, and rickety child ? Hauptmann must have been as low as they come.
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Post by rmc1971 on Dec 14, 2008 20:59:43 GMT -5
Was there ever an explanation by authorities of why a recent photo was not used on the wanted posters?
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Post by gap0003 on Feb 18, 2010 17:11:22 GMT -5
Has anyone heard the baby might have been deaf? Charles did take him up flying as an infant. In Hour of Gold, Hour of Lead she describes a health issue, but never names it. After John was born she goes on about how healthy and normal he is. Also, a body was stolen from an orphanage a few days after the incident.
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Post by Michael on Feb 19, 2010 7:09:28 GMT -5
The child had "health" issues. To what degree has always been a topic of discussion and rumor. The official position was that he had a "mild" case of rickets.
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