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Post by wduggan on Feb 16, 2009 14:39:21 GMT -5
Elmer Irey relates that Berretelli got Breckenridge to go to a meeting in Sommerset , NJ. Upon arriving, Breckenridge quickly discovered that they were spiritualist whom he thought were nut jobs. However, according to Irey, Cerrita went into a trance and told his that the ransom letter was left on the window sill (not public knowledge at the time) and that there was anothere letter waiting at his office. One came in the next morning mail.
I don't know if this has come up and I am not shure it was all up and running in 1932, but parts of NYC back then had mail delivery 4-5 times per day and there was a system of pneumatic tubes that ran under the streets of Manhattan. How far this system extended I do not know.
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Post by Michael on Feb 18, 2009 20:08:25 GMT -5
Anyone ever suspect Rosner as the one behind the Birrittella involvement?
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Post by jdanniel on Jul 9, 2009 20:00:03 GMT -5
This, to me, is a big deal, along with...what was she called... Our Lady from Tuckahoe?
Dealing with these things is, in my opinion, the defense's responsibility to pursue. A good defense attorney could have torn Condon to shreds with this stuff...if, of course, the defense knew about any of it.
Condon could have been ripped a few dozen new tushies. The signature was made with red and blue ink, right? Who was it who pointed out the color of the ink used by Condon in his correspondence...it was purple, wasn't it? What two colors comprise purple.....
Jd
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Post by obi on Jun 3, 2022 12:56:49 GMT -5
Not sure where to post this but would like to include it for the record. Perhaps this has been posted before and I missed it; I've not known of any spiritualist/mystic/or similar who announced distances (given to them by spirits) in road miles measured with an odometer. Yes, it was 'almost exactly 4.5 miles' from Highfields to the burial site - by odometer. The true distance is 3.1 miles "as the crow flies." Easy to check using Google Earth. If neither drove, someone obviously gave them the distance. WHO? Again, if this has been posted before I apologize.
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Post by Michael on Jun 3, 2022 19:50:07 GMT -5
Not sure where to post this but would like to include it for the record. Perhaps this has been posted before and I missed it; I've not known of any spiritualist/mystic/or similar who announced distances (given to them by spirits) in road miles measured with an odometer. Yes, it was 'almost exactly 4.5 miles' from Highfields to the burial site - by odometer. The true distance is 3.1 miles "as the crow flies." Easy to check using Google Earth. If neither drove, someone obviously gave them the distance. WHO? Again, if this has been posted before I apologize. That and the other things such as the ransom note and what was said on the phone taps. It's the ultimate location of the child that led to the Schippell investigation. That's why I included it in V3. I personally wondered whether or not Schippell might have been an intended scapegoat. I believe its who Waxey Gordon was referring to and the man didn't help himself with some of the things he said - to include pointing to a hole and saying the child had originally been buried there. Regardless, I think someone was directing the Birritellas. What are your thoughts on this?
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Post by obi on Jun 4, 2022 8:55:15 GMT -5
Unfortunately I have not concentrated on Gordon or any mafia characters. Their participation and alliances were all complicated speculation (as intended) - though they obviously cannot be ignored with thousands in liquor profits lost everyday due to roadblocks and other police presence. I have a hard enough time sorting the lawyers and investigators, lol. I have read all your volumes and recall mention of Birritella's phone tap - but do not recall any quotes from transcripts and I do recall that Squire Johnson said something like 'even if Schippell is not arrested - he should be investigated later.' He was definitely dirty. And weird. A car in a barn with aired up tires and fresh fuel with junk piled on top evidently to conceal it? That was only the car. My point in posting yesterday was that Mary did not know the distance to the body. Her distance was to the body was in "driving miles" not "as the crow flies." Someone gave her those numbers because they had driven it and observed the mileage by odometer. If the "spirits" (or someone bothering to measure using a map) had told her it would have been three miles. Point A to Point B. I think everyone is convinced the pair were obviously sent fishing for inside info, as evidenced by their surprise over the 'letter that didn't show up' and Peter's sudden epiphany that a letter would be there in one day rather than the two weeks originally announced by the two at the same meeting. Oh, and the sudden flash of "JFC." To simplify my point; When mystics convey distance, they don't measure that distance in road miles by odometer. Also, related to the burial, when building a new home near one's current residence, it would be necessary for the new owners and employees to make countless trips meeting with contractors, taking paintings, personal items and other things not trusted to the moving company. Been there, done that. My point is that Whateley and Lindbergh both made countless trips passing right where the child was found. Being the only "pull off" between the rented farmhouse and Highfields I am certain both CAL and Whateley stopped there many times to "relieve themselves." Every state I visited during the fifties still had those "pull offs". That was the reality of road travel at the time. I believe Federal and state regulations eventually began to require bathroom facilities in gas stations. I have learned many things from you and the very qualified (and interesting) researchers, writers and investigators posting here that criminals and escapees often return to a place familiar to them, wouldn't they do the same if burying something illegal? I know I would. I have no doubt both Cal and Ollie stopped there (innocently) dozens of times each, over the months as Highfields was built. They were definitely familiar with the pull off. It was a semi-public space. Personally, I believe the body was moved, possibly from the rented farmhouse property since the body's final location had been searched and trodden following the...incident. Boy Scouts, telephone linemen..... I believe the condition of the body was not consistent with 2 months' outdoor exposure. Scavengers left too much. They wouldn't touch parts of it.....chemicals, maybe? I live in the country now and have been around animals and carcasses my whole life. As a youngster one of my jobs was to pull my grandfather's dead hogs to a section of land dedicated for that. Probably 2+ per week during the summer. He kept around 100 farrowing sows and raised each litters to an ideal slaughter weight of around 200 lbs. Maybe New Jersey buzzards don't "advertise by circling" as they do here, invariably. Maybe it was left there originally but if so, something was wrong with that carcass. Regardless of why and whenever the body was left there, it took a cold, cold person to do it for whatever reason. Who is the most cold-hearted person in this saga? Perhaps CAL freaked out and went to a place familiar to him. Perhaps two places. Even if convinced it was an inside job, I fail to see how the servants and Anne never broke. And were "calm." One of my favorite characters of this whole mess, Leon Ho-age had it pegged the first night. Exit sign with "this way out" printed on it...so obvious to him that it was humorous. One of the biggest failures of the investigation is that they should have paid attention to Oscar Bush and other locals the first night. Thank you for allowing me to vent. You made the mistake of asking me what I thought, I look forward to future volumes. The information you, Mark and others have exposed from the Archives alone could easily have gone unnoticed for another 100 years.
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Post by Michael on Jun 5, 2022 14:22:05 GMT -5
Please keep giving your observations, you certainly don't need me to "allow" you to post - or vent! By all means do, that's what this Board is meant for. I'm not suggesting Gordon was involved, however, he heard this from somewhere so I consider it among the pile of information coming from other sources and see what I can come up with so it can be considered. Your thought is a good one by the way ... the mob was aggitated by all the police activity which tended to interefere with them and they wanted this over just as much as everyone else. That was one theory the Trenton PD advanced along these lines suggesting that corpse " may have been a planted baby, to divert attention away from the main highway over which liquor runners were passing." Your point about the distance is interesting as well. It does show that if it wasn't a wild guess then it came from someone driving that distance. Same with the observation about the turn off. I wrote about something in V2 pages 10-11 that may actually help support this. And buzzards definitely advertise here as well. In fact, police were not only aware of it, if they were alterted or noticed them they would search those areas. In fact, I gave one example in V3 on page 50.
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Post by obi on Jun 5, 2022 20:13:07 GMT -5
I'm certain the only thing I added was that the traditionally accepted distance of 4.5 miles that Mary tried to throw and make stick was actually 3 miles from point A to B. Or the accepted measuring method of spiritualists, I always thought. Scam artists would use an odometer. Busted. The rest, I was only repeating things that made sense to me from your books. Many of those things branch out and call for a decision by the reader. That's why I enjoy this. I can enjoy detective work without leaving home. The commenters here are as invaluable as your books. I sure miss Amy but it seems Sue is working twice as hard. Everyone needs a Joe in their life to keep them straight. Since I don't usually have anything unique to post - but I do enjoy following, my thanks to everyone. Let me add that Dr Travis Taylor, UA, Huntsville said on a network show that one of his students told him he was raised on a farm and it was always accepted that scavengers wouldn't touch an animal that had been hit by lightening. It baffles me the body was not stripped clean if it had been even one or two weeks. Thanks to CAL we'll never know.
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Post by IloveDFW on Jun 6, 2022 13:02:14 GMT -5
I'm certain the only thing I added was that the traditionally accepted distance of 4.5 miles that Mary tried to throw and make stick was actually 3 miles from point A to B. Or the accepted measuring method of spiritualists, I always thought. Scam artists would use an odometer. Busted. The rest, I was only repeating things that made sense to me from your books. Many of those things branch out and call for a decision by the reader. That's why I enjoy this. I can enjoy detective work without leaving home. The commenters here are as invaluable as your books. I sure miss Amy but it seems Sue is working twice as hard. Everyone needs a Joe in their life to keep them straight. Since I don't usually have anything unique to post - but I do enjoy following, my thanks to everyone. Let me add that Dr Travis Taylor, UA, Huntsville said on a network show that one of his students told him he was raised on a farm and it was always accepted that scavengers wouldn't touch an animal that had been hit by lightening. It baffles me the body was not stripped clean if it had been even one or two weeks. Thanks to CAL we'll never know.
You forgot Wayne...he knows so much and is our voice of reason.
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Post by Wayne on Jun 6, 2022 15:26:27 GMT -5
I'm certain the only thing I added was that the traditionally accepted distance of 4.5 miles that Mary tried to throw and make stick was actually 3 miles from point A to B. Or the accepted measuring method of spiritualists, I always thought. Scam artists would use an odometer. Busted. The rest, I was only repeating things that made sense to me from your books. Many of those things branch out and call for a decision by the reader. That's why I enjoy this. I can enjoy detective work without leaving home. The commenters here are as invaluable as your books. I sure miss Amy but it seems Sue is working twice as hard. Everyone needs a Joe in their life to keep them straight. Since I don't usually have anything unique to post - but I do enjoy following, my thanks to everyone. Let me add that Dr Travis Taylor, UA, Huntsville said on a network show that one of his students told him he was raised on a farm and it was always accepted that scavengers wouldn't touch an animal that had been hit by lightening. It baffles me the body was not stripped clean if it had been even one or two weeks. Thanks to CAL we'll never know.
You forgot Wayne...he knows so much and is our voice of reason. Well, that's a scary thought!
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