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Post by Sue on May 31, 2020 20:55:12 GMT -5
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Post by xjd on May 31, 2020 23:28:07 GMT -5
great find! i still don't believe BRH killed Charlie. involved in other things, yes. but not the death of the child.
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 1, 2020 8:41:54 GMT -5
I would find it hard to believe that Hauptmann was born in any other country but Germany. Of course, the family could have been visiting Hungary for whatever reason at the time the photo was supposedly taken there.
BTW, who would supply the AP with a baby photo of Hauptmann to be published right after his conviction? And was this purported baby picture published in only the Oshkosh, Wis. newspaper? I would think it would appear in many other papers as well.
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Post by Sue on Jun 1, 2020 18:14:46 GMT -5
Thanks, xjd.
hurtelable:
The picture of young Hauptmann with his Mom, Dad, and sister was published in many, many newspapers.
Here is a list of a few places that the picture appeared in:
Alton Evening Telegraph Alton, Illinois February 16, 1935 Page 17
The Emporia Daily Gazette Emporia, Kansas February 19, 1935 Page 2
The Great Falls Tribune Great Falls, Montana February 20, 1935 Page 2
Big Spring Daily Herald Big Spring, Texas February 21, 1935 Page 2
The Paris News Paris, Texas February 21, 1935 Page 12
Globe Gazette Mason City, Iowa February 21, 1935 Page 25
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 1, 2020 19:23:16 GMT -5
All small-town papers, relatively speaking. If the AP supposedly knew that Hauptmann was born in Hungary, not Germany, don't you think it would be mentioned in at least a few of the many stories about him during the months of his arrest and then trial. Or was Wilentz and LE able to censor this fact because it may have worked to Hauptmann's advantage in the courtroom?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 20:48:06 GMT -5
That is an interesting picture. I have never seen it before in any of the newspapers I have looked at. I can't say for certain that its not Hauptmann in that picture but I am hesitate about it being the Hauptmann family. Richard was the last child born into that marriage. He only had one sister and her name was Emma. Emma was already 8 years old when Hauptmann was born. The young girl in that picture does not appear to be eight years old. Hauptmann had 3 older brothers. I wonder why they are not also in that family picture.
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Post by Sue on Jun 2, 2020 6:45:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 6:59:01 GMT -5
Thank you Sue for posting that. I actually missed seeing that.
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Post by Sue on Jun 2, 2020 18:25:31 GMT -5
You're welcome, Amy.
Not much has been written about Hauptmann's father, Herman.
Why would the Hauptmanns be traveling to Dognacska with a baby so young as Hauptmann?
Was the family making a pilgrimage of some sort to Dognacska?
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Post by Sue on Jun 2, 2020 19:11:39 GMT -5
Yes, hurtelable.
Why WAS the picture published immediately following Hauptmann's conviction?
I don't think that photo was found last minute, after the verdict was rendered.
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Post by Guest on Jun 2, 2020 23:57:41 GMT -5
Yes, hurtelable. Why WAS the picture published immediately following Hauptmann's conviction? I don't think that photo was found last minute, after the verdict was rendered. The people in that photo are not Hauptmann and his parents. They never ventured out of Kamenz.
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Post by Sue on Jun 3, 2020 0:09:23 GMT -5
Is that just a feeling that you have about that picture, or do you know in fact that that picture is not of the Hauptmann family?
Has that photo been discussed on the boards at least once in the past?
Where is your evidence that those are not the Hauptmanns?
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Post by Guest on Jun 3, 2020 0:47:03 GMT -5
Is that just a feeling that you have about that picture, or do you know in fact that that picture is not of the Hauptmann family? Has that photo been discussed on the boards at least once in the past? Where is your evidence that those are not the Hauptmanns? The child in the photo is older than one month. Hairlines and general facial structure don't change over time: Hauptmann's mother does not share the oblong facial feature of the woman in the photo, nor the prominent triangular hairline protrusion on the side of the forehead. The child in the foreground is a girl -- right? Who would she be? Hauptmann had only one sister, who was eight years older than him. What reason would the Hauptmanns have had to travel to Romania for a photo shoot with two children not their own? And who would have taken care of the other three boys in the family during the parents' unexplained absence from home? (I.e.: Why aren't they in the picture? Were they chopped liver?) The story is a fake.
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 3, 2020 15:27:08 GMT -5
I would tend to agree, without even knowing what Hauptmann's parents looked like. In 1899 or thereabouts, Europeans of ordinary means hardly ever did any international travel unless they were forced to by some means or another. The auto was a recent invention, primarily for the upper classes, and there were hardly any roads to drive on. The airplane was still a few years into the future. The only means of transportation were railroads and horseback, and buggies. Doing any with a baby and young children would be quite a hardship.
So printing that photo by the AP in a slew of U.S. newspapers probably demonstrates that "fake news" for manipulating public thinking is NOT only a current-day phenomenon; it's probably been around since the founding of the country.
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Post by Sue on Jun 3, 2020 20:27:57 GMT -5
Page 4 of the Syracuse Journal for March 31, 1936 shows that same man again, the one that all those newspapers were saying was Hauptmann's father.
This particular photo, though, was taken from a different angle.
Amy is good at locating newspaper stories. She just needs the information to search.
I believe this guy was Hauptmann's father, Herman.
Why can't you accept that that is a picture of Herman Hauptmann?
It has nothing to do with Hauptmann's guilt or innocence.
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Post by Guest on Jun 4, 2020 7:46:37 GMT -5
Page 4 of the Syracuse Journal for March 31, 1936 shows that same man again, the one that all those newspapers were saying was Hauptmann's father. This particular photo, though, was taken from a different angle. Amy is good at locating newspaper stories. She just needs the information to search. I believe this guy was Hauptmann's father, Herman. Why can't you accept that that is a picture of Herman Hauptmann? It has nothing to do with Hauptmann's guilt or innocence. Sue, the Hauptmann family from Dognacea in Romania settled in Philadelphia in 1904. There is a lot of info about them on ancestry.com. They were Catholic and unrelated to Richard Hauptmann's family. In 1920, the family from Dognacea comprised the following members, with Olga and Emilie probably being the children in the photo. The others were born later. As Hurtelable said, the photo and story were early examples of fake news. Adolph Hauptmann 47 Maria Hauptmann 44 Olga Hauptmann 21 Emille Hauptmann 19 Ferdinand Hauptmann 16 Maria Hauptmann 14 Adolph T Hauptmann 13
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Post by Sue on Jun 4, 2020 18:52:31 GMT -5
Thank you, Guest.
Did anyone ever expose the truth about this "fake news" story, that Richard Hauptmann of Lindbergh kidnapping fame was not at all related to the Hauptmanns from Dognacea?
Are the two families absolutely distinct from each other?
The two families are not related?
Do the folks on ancestry dot com emphatically say that they are not related to Richard Hauptmann at all?
Since that picture began to be published in newspapers in 1936, have the Hauptmanns from Dognacea been pissed that this picture falsely links their family to the man who died in the electric chair for the murder of the Lindbergh baby?
But the New York Post from January 22, 1935 said that Hauptmann was born in Dognecea, Rumania!
Let me post it right now.
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Post by Sue on Jun 4, 2020 19:03:21 GMT -5
I meant to say that the photo began to be published in newspapers beginning in February 1935.
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Post by Guest on Jun 4, 2020 19:55:07 GMT -5
I meant to say that the photo began to be published in newspapers beginning in February 1935. Hi Sue, My guess is that the Hauptmanns from Romania provided the photo to the press themselves, perhaps for a little publicity and some money. Hautpmann and his four siblings were born in Kamenz between 1891 and 1899 (BRH's birth certificate confirms his birth there). The Romanian town where the other family hailed from is 700 miles away. Not all Smiths are related, why should all Hauptmanns be? The photo itself is lovely: A family who a couple years after the picture was taken would have the courage to emigrate to America. Good for them!
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Post by Sue on Jun 4, 2020 20:00:03 GMT -5
New York Post January 22, 1935
"Hauptmann Was Born in Rumanian Village"
BUCHAREST, Jan 22 (Havas),
--Rumanian newspapers announced today that authorities have established the fact Bruno Richard Hauptmann was born in the village of Dognecea, Banat Province, Rumania.
It was declared that Hauptmann's parents were members of the German minority in Banat, which existed there when the region was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Hauptmann as a small boy attended primary school in Dognecia before leaving his home to live in Berlin, it was stated.
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Post by Guest on Jun 4, 2020 21:44:22 GMT -5
New York Post January 22, 1935 "Hauptmann Was Born in Rumanian Village" BUCHAREST, Jan 22 (Havas), --Rumanian newspapers announced today that authorities have established the fact Bruno Richard Hauptmann was born in the village of Dognecea, Banat Province, Rumania. It was declared that Hauptmann's parents were members of the German minority in Banat, which existed there when the region was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Hauptmann as a small boy attended primary school in Dognecia before leaving his home to live in Berlin, it was stated. Thank you for pointing out this inaccurate newspaper article, Sue. Hauptmann was never in Romania or Berlin.
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Post by Sue on Jun 6, 2020 10:40:48 GMT -5
I see what you are saying.
However, could the CONVERSE also be true?
That being, could more of the photos and reports that have been deemed authentic and "gospel" in the Lindbergh case ALSO be fraudulent or "fake news"?
In other words, have BOTH SIDES of this case deceived themselves about the truth in the Lindbergh case?
BOTH SIDES may have latched onto photos and documents that are not authentic.
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Post by Wayne on Jun 6, 2020 12:27:33 GMT -5
New York Post January 22, 1935 "Hauptmann Was Born in Rumanian Village" BUCHAREST, Jan 22 (Havas), --Rumanian newspapers announced today that authorities have established the fact Bruno Richard Hauptmann was born in the village of Dognecea, Banat Province, Rumania. It was declared that Hauptmann's parents were members of the German minority in Banat, which existed there when the region was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Hauptmann as a small boy attended primary school in Dognecia before leaving his home to live in Berlin, it was stated. Sue, Please don't shoot the messenger, but I've attached BRH's birth certificate which came from the NJSP Museum. It clearly says that Hauptmann was born in Kamenz (it's on the thirteenth line). BRH Birth Certificate.pdf (50.66 KB)
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Post by Sue on Jun 6, 2020 12:54:36 GMT -5
Hi Wayne,
I believe you.
I am not registered on this board, so I am not able to view Hauptmann's birth certificate.
I'm interested in knowing if the certificate says whether Hauptmann was born at home or in a hospital?
What vital information from the document can you post?
Are his parents named on the certificate?
Raised seal?
Certificate number?
Thanks, Wayne.
NO shooting the messenger here!
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 6, 2020 13:59:05 GMT -5
Can someone who can read German and is familiar with the old German font please provide us with an English translation of the posted image of the Hauptmann B.C.? At first glance it looks authentic to me.
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Post by Wayne on Jun 6, 2020 14:15:37 GMT -5
Hi Wayne, I believe you. I am not registered on this board, so I am not able to view Hauptmann's birth certificate. I'm interested in knowing if the certificate says whether Hauptmann was born at home or in a hospital? What vital information from the document can you post? Are his parents named on the certificate? Raised seal? Certificate number? Thanks, Wayne. NO shooting the messenger here! Hi Sue, It's great not to be shot for another day! Thank you! Let me know if you are able to look at this -- I also checked with Mark Falzini for full disclosure -- a researcher went to the archives in Kamenz in either 2000 or 2001 and gave a copy to the NJSP Museum.
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Post by Wayne on Jun 6, 2020 14:18:59 GMT -5
Sue,
A little translation.
The certificate says that the parents are Pauline Hauptmann nee Graefe and Herrmann Hauptmann, that at the time of Richard's birth they resided at Lausitzer Strasse No. 157 (which today would have a different number) and that the child was born at that residence in the presence of a midwife.
Hope this helps!
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Post by Sue on Jun 7, 2020 9:55:14 GMT -5
Thanks, Wayne.
That's interesting that Hauptmann came into this world via a midwife!
I still cannot see the image clearly, but don't worry. You have provided enough information about the certificate.
Thanks again, Wayne!
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