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Post by Sue on Apr 5, 2020 14:36:01 GMT -5
Jim Fisher claims that the small bottle of ether found by an FBI agent in Hauptmann's garage in 1934 is new evidence. (See pages 155-157 in Ghosts of Hopewell)
Fisher states on page 156 that the ether is one of the best kept secrets of the Lindbergh case.
He writes:
"...millions of words in newspapers, magazines, and books not one reference to this evidence can be found elsewhere in print."
Well, Steve Romeo, your friend, Jim Fisher, is wrong.
Right before the start of the trial in 1935, journalist and mystery writer Arthur B. Reeve wanted some things about the case cleared up.
First on Reeve's list was that he wanted more information about the bottle of ether that was found in Hauptmann's garage.
And I believe that it is true that Arthur Reeve went to live in the Lindberghs' farmhouse in Princeton some time after the Lindberghs' moved out of that place.
Did Reeve also pass away at that Cold Soil Road residence in 1936?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 5, 2020 20:19:44 GMT -5
Jim Fisher claims that the small bottle of ether found by an FBI agent in Hauptmann's garage in 1934 is new evidence. (See pages 155-157 in Ghosts of Hopewell) Fisher states on page 156 that the ether is one of the best kept secrets of the Lindbergh case. He writes: "...millions of words in newspapers, magazines, and books not one reference to this evidence can be found elsewhere in print." Well, Steve Romeo, your friend, Jim Fisher, is wrong. Right before the start of the trial in 1935, journalist and mystery writer Arthur B. Reeve wanted some things about the case cleared up. First on Reeve's list was that he wanted more information about the bottle of ether that was found in Hauptmann's garage. And I believe that it is true that Arthur Reeve went to live in the Lindberghs' farmhouse in Princeton some time after the Lindberghs' moved out of that place. Did Reeve also pass away at that Cold Soil Road residence in 1936? I've never heard of the reporter Reeve, but it sounds like he was perhaps tipped about the ether-in-the-garage find. Hard to believe this revelation would not have been at least considered for its full potential advantage by the prosecution.
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Post by stella7 on Apr 6, 2020 11:28:56 GMT -5
Wikipaedia states that Arthur B. Reeve moved to Trenton in 1932 To be closer to his Alma Mater(Princeton Univ,) and died there in 1936. White Cloud Farm is just beyond Princeton in Lawrenceville so not sure if he lived there, it could be. It also states that he covered the Hauptmann Trial.
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Post by Sue on Apr 6, 2020 18:39:22 GMT -5
Stella,
Yes.
I think I have read in a few places that Arthur Reeve lived at Lindbergh's former Princeton home. Although Wikipedia says that Reeve died in Trenton, I think what is meant is Lawrenceville.
I believe Reeve may have passed away at that farmhouse!
The following is from PAW:
Arthur Reeve has bought the ninety-acre farm which Colonel Lindbergh occupied while he was building at Hopewell. This farm is only three miles from Nassau Hall on the Rosedale Road to Lawrenceville. He is naming it Tiger Farm and is going to put up Latin inscription. "Princetonienses Tigres Gloriantur."
Princeton Alumni Weekly September 30, 1932 Page 42
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Post by Sue on Apr 6, 2020 21:13:44 GMT -5
Well, Stella, Arthur Reeve died at his home at 615 Greenwood Avenue in Trenton, New Jersey.
I just read his obit. from a New York Sun newspaper from August 1936.
Wikipedia is correct.
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Post by stella7 on Apr 11, 2020 16:19:57 GMT -5
Sue, I bet he did buy the farm, I doubt the Princeton Alumni Weekly would make that up. Perhaps he moved to Trenton later. I wonder if it is he who rented it after Lindbergh left.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 19:45:05 GMT -5
A man by the name of Winthrop Rutherford rented the Cold Soil Road farmhouse and moved in once the Lindberghs were completely moved out of the residence. Rutherford moved into the farmhouse in December, 1931. He and a friend were living there at the time of the kidnapping. The article doesn't say who the friend is. Could it have been Arthur Reeve?? Here is a section from a larger story that mentions Mr. Rutherford. This is from the New York Evening Post, March 3, 1932 imgur.com/IhYRMdd
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Post by Sue on Apr 12, 2020 12:01:42 GMT -5
Stella,
Not only Princeton Alumni Weekly --
I have read from other sources that Arthur Reeve lived in the Princeton farmhouse after Lindbergh moved out of that house.
When I locate the articles, I will post them.
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Post by trojanusc on Apr 12, 2020 20:38:58 GMT -5
Can someone provide a quick summary of the ether? It's been a while. Wasn't it found to have been made after the kidnapping or am I making that up?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 12, 2020 21:18:18 GMT -5
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Post by Sue on Apr 12, 2020 22:21:44 GMT -5
Arthur Reeve was troubled about the ether.
In Reeve's New York Post article that appeared on January 2, 1935, he says this:
"To me the Hauptmann trial brisles with innumerable intriguing features--hundreds of details I want established and clarified beyond the peradventure of doubt."
"For instance, among scores of other things, I want full information about the bottle of ether said to have been found in the Hauptmann garage; and all details surrounding the sale of a bottle of ether on the evening of the kidnaping by the drug store in Pennington, about ten miles from Hopewell."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 7:14:52 GMT -5
I do not see any connection of the ether found in Hauptmann's garage with the LKC. From the investigation done it appears that this ether was acquired sometime after the kidnapping and that it did come from Raabe's Pharmacy, White Plains Ave. in the Bronx. There was a $10 gold certificate found among deposits made on January 18, 1934 at the Bank of Manhattan, White Plains Ave. This deposit was found among deposits from the area made to the bank on January 9th, 10th, and 11th. Among the depositors for this time period was Raabe Pharmacy. They made a deposit of $198 on January 9th, 1934. It appears the ether came from Raabe's Pharmacy.
I have always wondered if the ether found could have come from the stuff that Fisch gave the Hauptmanns to hold for him. After Fisch's death, Richard and Anne did go through the stuff (no shoe box mentioned by Anna) Fisch left with them. I do believe that Fisch was self-medicating in order to deal with the effects of the coughing due to the tuberculosis he suffered from. Might the ether have been used in some way to help with this?
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Post by Michael on Apr 14, 2020 10:15:29 GMT -5
Going back all those years is a tough one for me. I barely even remember this exchange. There was a time when I argued any side of things to see how they'd "shake out" but once I felt ready to start writing I discontinued that. Next, I've learned quite a bit in the 14 years since. In short, I'd need to review and research the subject completely before jumping back into this. However, after reading over the thread I fully agree with the two points I was trying to make. If its a 3 ounce bottle, and 1 ounce is missing what does that tell us? Well, if the bottle was purchased for a kidnapping, 1 ounce was used, and it was purchased in 1934 then who got kidnapped? If nobody then the real use of the ether was for whatever that ounce was used for. For me that should end the discussion. Next, if the motive was needed money, but we believe he had about 15K how does that make any sense? That is unless the 15K wasn't his. I also seemed to have been motivated by the hypocrisy rooted in this speculation because it was made by someone who labeled anyone who didn't believe Hauptmann a "Lone-Wolf" as a "Revisionist." Anyway, I'm all ears if someone can neutralize these points. As far as "why" he had it there could be any number of reasons as I've outlined as well as some I hadn't considered. Amy's suggestion above is a new one to me and something I think needs to definitely be considered as a possible answer to this. "For instance, among scores of other things, I want full information about the bottle of ether said to have been found in the Hauptmann garage; and all details surrounding the sale of a bottle of ether on the evening of the kidnaping by the drug store in Pennington, about ten miles from Hopewell." That's a whole different subject. However, because it involved ether it's one that would cause people to take a second look at.
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ziki
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Post by ziki on Apr 14, 2020 13:54:48 GMT -5
I have always wondered if the ether found could have come from the stuff that Fisch gave the Hauptmanns to hold for him. After Fisch's death, Richard and Anne did go through the stuff (no shoe box mentioned by Anna) Fisch left with them. I do believe that Fisch was self-medicating in order to deal with the effects of the coughing due to the tuberculosis he suffered from. Might the ether have been used in some way to help with this? Hello, Amy, from here: books.google.cz/books?id=mWeTDwAAQBAJ&dq=hofmann%E2%80%99s+anodyne+cough&hl=cs&source=gbs_navlinks_sAttachment DeletedHoffman’s anodyne = compound spirit of ether = a solution of diethyl ether /aka "ether"/ in alcohol Or what about ether addiction?
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Post by Mbg on Apr 14, 2020 14:12:14 GMT -5
I have always wondered if the ether found could have come from the stuff that Fisch gave the Hauptmanns to hold for him. After Fisch's death, Richard and Anne did go through the stuff (no shoe box mentioned by Anna) Fisch left with them. I do believe that Fisch was self-medicating in order to deal with the effects of the coughing due to the tuberculosis he suffered from. Might the ether have been used in some way to help with this? Hello, Amy, from here: books.google.cz/books?id=mWeTDwAAQBAJ&dq=hofmann%E2%80%99s+anodyne+cough&hl=cs&source=gbs_navlinks_sHoffman’s anodyne = compound spirit of ether = a solution of diethyl ether /aka "ether"/ in alcohol Or what about ether addiction? Or could Hauptmann have had the ether in his garage for the same reason Babbitt in Sinclair Lewis's novel of the day kept his bottle at hand? "Among the tremendous crises of each day none was more dramatic than starting the engine. It was slow on cold mornings; there was the long, anxious whirr of the starter; and sometimes he had to drip ether into the cocks of the cylinders, which was so very interesting that at lunch he would chronicle it drop by drop, and orally calculate how much each drop had cost him."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 18:04:29 GMT -5
Hoffman’s anodyne = compound spirit of ether = a solution of diethyl ether /aka "ether"/ in alcohol Or what about ether addiction? Very nice find, ziki! Fisch's TB was getting worse which probably meant he was coughing harder and more frequently. It must have also been painful. I am not aware that it is possible to have an addiction to ether. I think I read that the ether that was recovered in Hauptmann's garage was a pharmaceutical grade ether. Not sure if that has any bearing on how it could be used.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 17, 2020 9:11:12 GMT -5
I do not see any connection of the ether found in Hauptmann's garage with the LKC. From the investigation done it appears that this ether was acquired sometime after the kidnapping and that it did come from Raabe's Pharmacy, White Plains Ave. in the Bronx. There was a $10 gold certificate found among deposits made on January 18, 1934 at the Bank of Manhattan, White Plains Ave. This deposit was found among deposits from the area made to the bank on January 9th, 10th, and 11th. Among the depositors for this time period was Raabe Pharmacy. They made a deposit of $198 on January 9th, 1934. It appears the ether came from Raabe's Pharmacy. I have always wondered if the ether found could have come from the stuff that Fisch gave the Hauptmanns to hold for him. After Fisch's death, Richard and Anne did go through the stuff (no shoe box mentioned by Anna) Fisch left with them. I do believe that Fisch was self-medicating in order to deal with the effects of the coughing due to the tuberculosis he suffered from. Might the ether have been used in some way to help with this? Fisch as the source of the ether bottle and any desire on his part to self-medicate his health condition, is an interesting theory. I think that would depend though on specific circumstances of its discovery. If I remember correctly, I don't believe Agent Geraghty's actual report makes any specific mention of where in the garage Agent Malone found the bottle. We do know that Hauptmann went through Fisch's suitcases and fur bundle once he received news of the latter's death in Germany. It strikes me as very likely he would have found the bottle if it had have belonged to Fisch, during this search. As Fisch would have no further use for it, why would Hauptmann then keep it? To start his car? Take a snort himself now and then? Or through his frugality, thinking he might be able to use it someday? Max Schaffer, the pharmacist who sold the bottle of ether testified the purchaser originally identified himself as a dentist, but later when he met him on the street, the man told Schaffer he was a cobbler. Did Schaffer ever describe this man and was there a follow up to determine if Hauptmann had actually been the purchaser?
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Post by Sue on Apr 18, 2020 21:55:15 GMT -5
The following is part of an FBI Report that includes the subject of the finding of the ether:
New York, N Y., September 23, 1934
RE: UNKNOWN SUBJECTS, KIDNAPING AND MURDER OF CHARLES A. LINDBERGH JR.
During the searching of the garage at 1279 East 222nd Street, in the Bronx, Special Agent L.F. Malone found a three ounce bottle with a green screw type stopper which contained about two fluid ounces of ether. The marking on the bottle shows the word "ether" written on a druggist's label marked "poison" and the label indicates that it had been sold by Wm. Raabe, pharmacist, 3981 White Plains Avenue., between 225 and 226 Streets, Bronx, N.Y.
In an effort to learn the identity of the individual who purchased this ether and the date, agent called at the Raabe Pharmacy, 3981 White Plains Ave., and there interviewed Max Schaffer, one of the officers of the corporation. Mr. Schaffer stated that he and Martin Hirsch had purchased this store at auction sale in November 1933, and after purchasing the store the same was incorporated in January of 1934, under the name of Raabe Pharmacy, Inc. Mr. Schaffer advised that all of the store in this company, which he owns, is held in the name of his wife, and that it is 25 per cent of the whole company.
Mr. Schaffer stated that the label appearing on this bottle is one of a very old type and they no longer have any of them in their possession. Mr. Schaffer stated that as he recalls the first two weeks that they were in business at this address, they disposed of all this particular type of label. Mr. Schaffer stated that the former manager of the drug store was Charles Senderoff, who operated the Charles Drug Store, now located at 3967 White Plains Avenue. Mr. Schaffer stated that William Raabe, the former owner of the drug store, died as a result of suicide on June 5, 1933, the cause of the suicide being despondency because of business reverses.
Mr. Schaffer stated that the word ether, he believes, is in his handwriting, but he is unable to recall to whom he sold any ether in this manner. He stated that the usual method for the sale of ether was in sealed cans and not in bottles of this type.
Mr. Schaffer advised that the only sale of ether which he could recall having made since the operation of the store by Mr. Hirsch and himself was to an individual who was a shoe cobbler in that vicinity but whom he thought at the time he sold the ether was a dentist, Mr. Schaffer stated after having sold the ether to this party he stopped him on the street one day and asked him how his dentist business was, and this party informed him that he was not a dentist but a shoe cobbler.
Mr. Schaffer accompanied agent to the shoemaker in that vicinity located at 3987 White Plains Avenue, and there the shoemaker, Joseph Lioy, was interviewed, and he advised that he had never purchased any ether from the Raabe Drug Company during his entire business at that address. Mr. Lioy stated that he never uses ether and it is his understanding that the use of this would burn shoes and not assist in cleaning them. Mr. Schaffer was unable to say whether this was the party or not who had purchased the ether from him. Mr. Lioy advised that his home is at 736 East 221st Street.
Mr. Martin Hirsch, an associate of Schaffer in the Raabe Pharmacy, advised that the screw type cap which was on the bottle found in the garage of Hauptmann was not in existence until the latter part of 1933; that it is a very recent invention.
Agent obtained specimens of handwriting from Mr. Schaffer and the same are being attached to copies of this memorandum. It is quite apparent that the handwriting of Schaffer is identical with that appearing in the written word "ether" on the label of the bottle of ether.
Mr. Charles Senderoff was interviewed at his place of business, the Charles Drug Store, 3967 White Plains Avenue, and he advised that the ether was not sold while he was manager of the William Raabe Pharmacy. Mr. Senderoff stated that he knows this because of the handwriting appearing in the written word "ether" and the type of bottle, as well as the cap.
Mr. Senderoff stated that while he acted as manager of the William Raabe Pharmacy, they never used a screw type bottle. They continually used and only used the bottles which have small cork stoppers.
Mr. Senderoff further added that the mucilage which held the label to the bottle was not theirs, as when they were in business at that address the mucilage used for the labels was scented with peppermint for the purpose of giving it a pleasant odor.
Mr. Senderoff stated that Mr. Raabe had committed suicide on June 5, 1933, and that the store was sold about the middle of November 1933 at auction.
Copies of the handwriting of Charles Senderoff were obtained, consisting of the writing of the word "ether" as was that of his assistant, Meyer Wagman, who was also his assistant when he acted as manager of the William Raabe Pharmacy.
JOHN L. GERAGHTY, Special Agent
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 19, 2020 7:49:44 GMT -5
I have always wondered if the ether found could have come from the stuff that Fisch gave the Hauptmanns to hold for him. After Fisch's death, Richard and Anne did go through the stuff (no shoe box mentioned by Anna) Fisch left with them. I do believe that Fisch was self-medicating in order to deal with the effects of the coughing due to the tuberculosis he suffered from. Might the ether have been used in some way to help with this? Hello, Amy, from here: books.google.cz/books?id=mWeTDwAAQBAJ&dq=hofmann%E2%80%99s+anodyne+cough&hl=cs&source=gbs_navlinks_sHoffman’s anodyne = compound spirit of ether = a solution of diethyl ether /aka "ether"/ in alcohol Or what about ether addiction? Wow, ziki, that paragraph about the cough in pulmonary TB seems like it was taken from a medical textbook from (guessing) the 1939's. Would you happen to have the source and year of that material?
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Post by Sue on Apr 19, 2020 7:55:28 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Apr 19, 2020 9:07:22 GMT -5
I still can't get past the idea that this discovery supposedly meant Hauptmann was planning another kidnapping. It's a bizarre suggestion. Just the mere fact that both Hager and Lempke owed Hauptmann money, and he was in no hurry to collect, shows this idea makes little sense. (See V2 pages 468 & 471). Could the screw-type cap described in the ether report have been used to create the ransom symbol? Several people believed the circles were made by using some kind of lid from a jar or bottle. A couple others that I remember suggested the bottom of a drinking glass. So many different suggestions that were all possible in my opinion that I've given up on it.
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Post by Sue on Apr 19, 2020 13:20:28 GMT -5
The story about the ether was alive in The Daily News at the end of 1934. The New York Daily News December 28, 1934 On page 20 of that edition is an article named "Ether Held Hauptmann Kidnap Link." Also, on the same page is a photo of the baby and a photo of the crib with this caption: "Did Ether Silence Him?" I will try to type the complete article, but here is the link: www.newspapers.com/newspage/417847662/(Go to desktop to at least see a full page of the article)
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Post by Sue on Apr 20, 2020 6:02:24 GMT -5
"Ether Held Hauptmann Kidnap Link"
By Larry Rue
The New York Daily News
December 28, 1934
Page 20
A bottle of ether found in the garage of Bruno Richard Hauptmann, charged with the murder of the Lindbergh baby, may be the answer to one of the most baffling aspects of the crime, The News learned yesterday.
Among the most puzzling features of the kidnaping was the fact that America's most loved baby failed to make any outcry when it was lifted from its crib, whisked out of the window and carried down the ladder.
There was no sign of violence, and this at one time led to speculation as to whether the baby had been stolen by some one with whom it was well acquainted.
Bedclothes Not Rumpled
Another theory advanced by the police was that the kidnaper had smothered the baby with a pillow before seizing it. However, even a thirty pound baby likely would have put up a struggle before it would have succumbed to suffocation, and there was no indication that the bedclothes had been rumpled more than if the baby had been taken from its crib by loving hands.
If Hauptmann actually did kidnap the baby himself, as the State of New Jersey charges he did, that bottle of ether, investigators say, provides a reasonable explanation of how the baby was silenced.
Medical experts declare that babies are peculiarly susceptible to the effects of ether. Two or three inhalations from an ether-soaked handkerchief is sufficient to anesthetize an infant. Within a few seconds a baby can be rendered completely insensible and the coma produced will endure for at least a half an hour. This could be done to a sleeping baby without risk of awakening it.
Wouldn't Arouse Resistance
The odor of ether is so insidious that it will not arouse any instinctive or natural resistance, such as chloroform or other anesthetics. Unless concentrated as by being spilled or poured, the odor of ether disperses and is not likely to be detected if applied in the manner suggested.
An intensive investigation has been made in the effort to determine when and where this ether was bought. If corked tightly ether will keep indefinitely. Ether is used as a cleaning fluid and as such can be purchased at any drug store.
Chemical analysis so far has failed to determine how long ether has been kept in the bottle. They say that the fluid could easily have been in the bottle three or four years, in other words, have been purchased before the Lindbergh baby was kidnaped.
If the State can prove it was bought before then, investigators contend that the ether bottle will form another link in the chain of evidence with which they hope to convince a jury that Hauptmann actually kidnaped and murdered the baby himself, and should expiate the crime in the electric chair.
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