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Post by bernardt on Mar 26, 2022 8:52:35 GMT -5
The photo sent by Earl Lister, guide to the hunting party, to his sister (Mrs. William Patterson) was displayed in 1957. At that time Mrs. Patterson was living in Endicott NY. According to the 1940 US Census, Mrs. Patterson was living in Newburgh City, New York, which is about 55 miles from Southbury CT. (before she moved to Endicott)
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Post by bernardt on Mar 26, 2022 8:54:53 GMT -5
I should add that her first name was Helen and that she was born in 1903.
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Post by bernardt on Mar 26, 2022 16:15:56 GMT -5
Perhaps i should explain the reason for this analysis and then board members might wish to respond to the suggestion.
There appears to be a chain in contact from person to person that may be important. We know that Augusta Hile while working as cook or housekeeper in Southbury Ct. met John Lister. This was probably in 1931 after he left his job in Bingham Maine. She introduced Lister to her son Karl Henkel who probably lost his father-in-law, Hermann Kirsten about that time. At that point Lister would also have become acquainted with Isidor Fisch and perhaps also Hauptmann after the two had partnered. John Lister was called "The Bootlegger," and I suggest that he was doing this sort of business around New Haven where there was considerable demand. Fisch and Henkel most likely would have known about Lister's activities. Fisch was in the laundry business with Fritz as his partner, and the two may very well have laundered money for bootleggers if the need arose, and that without any sense of guilt. John Lister may have played a role in the Lindbergh kidnapping, even a major role. He went on an around-the-world trip when Hauptmann was arrested. Did he return to the US? The investigators looked for him certainly. He would not have been Cemetery John since he would not have spoken with a German or Scandinavian accent. He did not write the ransom letters. He did live near Hopewell and may have been engaged in the kidnapping. His wife left him and went home to Bingham Maine. One reporter did comment on Lister's apparently cruel treatment of his wife though where that information came from is not clear. In conclusion: Lister was in a position to ask Fisch to launder money. Lister may at one time have been in possession of the ransom. He knew where to go. Whether Fisch was aware of the source of the money he was laundering was another question. If anyone has further information, please post. This looks as if this angle has some possibilities.
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Post by Michael on Apr 5, 2022 15:16:10 GMT -5
Perhaps i should explain the reason for this analysis and then board members might wish to respond to the suggestion. In conclusion: Lister was in a position to ask Fisch to launder money. Lister may at one time have been in possession of the ransom. He knew where to go. Whether Fisch was aware of the source of the money he was laundering was another question. If anyone has further information, please post. This looks as if this angle has some possibilities. I don't have any additional information on Lister. Unfortunately, mistreating his wife doesn't raise any red flags for me since it was pretty common back then in just about everything I've read. Just look at Baker for example. Anyway, if you think there is potential you should definitely pursue it. Even if you're wrong there's plenty to be learned from such research.
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Post by edward on Apr 10, 2022 13:15:27 GMT -5
Mrs. William Patterson was my aunt. Her first name was Ida.
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Post by bernardt on Apr 10, 2022 17:23:31 GMT -5
Thank you for the information and correction, Edward.
The photo does show Haumptmann on the right. His left arm is displayed on a tree turnk. I was interested in the thumb on the left hand but could not post the photo on a different thread. If the viewer will Zoom in the left hand, the left thumb clearly displays a problem with swelling, esp. at the base. Condon stated that CJ had a fleshy lump at the base of his left thumb (at least one version of the story), but the photos of Hauptmann in court did not reveal such a lump.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Apr 10, 2022 18:03:38 GMT -5
Edward, I appreciate your input here on the board. Would you be willing to respond to a couple of questions?
John Lister took a trip around the world about Nov. or Dec. of 1934. Did he return to the U.S.? Would you happen to know where he lived if he did return? He seems to have dropped out of sight after 1934.
Thanks much for whatever information you can share.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 13, 2022 19:45:38 GMT -5
If that is truly Hauptmann in the blow-up photo whose left hand is resting on the tree, it would be an astonishing finding, tending to correlate with Jafsie's description of a "development" at the base of the left thumb of CJ, and thus strengthen the notion that CJ was in fact Hauptmann. But after Hauptmann was arrested, Condon examined Hauptmann's hand at the police station and proclaimed that he couldn't ID him as CJ. It took a few months of prodding by law enforcement for Jafsie to change his tune and dramatically ID Hauptmann at trial. So did Hauptmann really have that left thumb abnormality? If so, why didn't it come into the prosecution trial testimony? Would it still be possible to look at BRH's fingerprint card, and if so, could the thumb lesion be suggested there if it were indeed present on his hand?
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