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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 8, 2019 12:07:02 GMT -5
Hi all - haven't been here since 2008 - a friend recently reignited my interest by telling me to watch some new show on the Kidnapping - which unfortunately featured a guy grandstanding and IMO - featured zero of anything new or original on the case. Anyway - long story short - I decided I would try to work out the location of where the body of CAL Jr. was discovered back in May of 1932. I used old photos, maps and google maps, and made a few trips there.
Few things worth noting:
- the telephone poles appear to have been relocated to the other side of the street.
- the guardrail configuration has been changed - pretty extensively. - Old Mt Rose Road, which may have been passable in 1932, now dead ends a short way in [with some private residences there that I think existed since 1932] - the side of the road appears to slope away more than in 1932 - I assume this may have been intentional for drainage - the area is quite overgrown - and looks to be home to many deer - evidence of bones in plenty, and droppings. I felt pretty certain I also saw bear scat - and ended up spooking one from a tree on one trip. - the opposite side of the road has some undergrowth - it isn't really visible from the road.
- I used Beden Brook to gauge my bearings, however it appears from photos that the brook may have been redirected to pass directly under Hopewell Princeton Road - I am fairly certain that it passed through at an angle to the street in 1932, based upon the old photos of the area. - there is no longer any sign of a pull-off - I was actually puzzled over why Allen and Wilson would have selected this location, as well as the kidnappers - but from the 1932 photos you can see that there was a pull-off there, and that Beden Brook also played a role. I also was considering that perhaps the kidnappers pulled off on Old Mt Rose road, and then entered the wood from that side - however, the pull-off makes the most logical sense.
- the vegetation there is pretty thick - there are some odd plants that seem to naturally create 'hollows' ? Not sure what to call it - the bushes grow up, and then down to the ground, so there is room underneath, and then there is some type of straw plant there that acts like a natural thatch. When wandering around, it's sort of eerie when you see these spots that seem to resemble the spot Allen and Wilson found, and then see bones scattered all about.
- the area resembles a triangle - between Old Mt Rose and Hopewell Princeton Road - I mention this because you cannot walk too far into these woods without coming out on Old Mt Rose Rd.
So anyway - I did pace in ~75 feet. I took a few GPS readings back there. I also decided to try 'further afield' and traveled up the other side of Beden Brook - very swampy area, and not much used.
I used a metal detector in the approximate area where it I believed that the baby was found. I wasn't confident in finding anything - but if there was something to be found, I was hoping for the other thumb guard. No such luck. The area was very difficult to detect - weeds were up to about 2 feet high in April to above 3 feet high in May. By odd coincidence I was there on May 12th without recognizing it as anything more than a Saturday.
In the more or less area of 75 paces I hit nothing. About 85 paces in, in a clearing, I uncovered what is called a 'German Mattock.' Good for trenching or digging - the mattock differs from a traditional pick-axe in that it does not have a pick end - it has a flat axe head, and then a flat and somewhat thick rounded digging end. It was broken in two pieces, and each pie ce had been buried about one foot apart - on either side of a tree there. It was not complete, as a piece of the part that attaches to the handle appeared to be missing. Both pieces were buried about 4" down. Perhaps it was connected to the planting of some of the trees at the roadside - which can be seen in the 1932 footage.
By amazingly bizarro coincidence - I turned up another mattock in Westfield NJ this past weekend. Unbroken, and I would surmise, not as old - seemed to be in much better shape and was complete - without handle.
Now about maybe 100 or more paces in - getting very close to Old Mt Rose Road, I found some bizarre item that appeared to be a child's toy - like a tin balloon - flat. No clue what it was, or what it's purpose may have been. I took a photo of it and tried to google image match it without any success - also reviewed images of tin toys, and photos of CAL Jr and his toys - zip.
Very close to Mt Rose Road, there appeared to be a hollow - maybe 8 feet long or so - it sounded off quite a bit to the detector - there was a lot of debris there - including even an old pair of shoes. I'll be honest - I assume that this spot would be prime for a dumping location - and wrote it off as being related to the kidnapping in any way.
That's it - somewhat disappointing - if anyone has an interest I could post up some of the photos - I took some from the road, a few of the GPS location, and quite a few in the woods in the area. I would very much like to get an opportunity to detect the side of the driveway at Highfields and maybe the area where the ladder was found - but not sure how to see my way clear to get permission.
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Post by trojanusc on Jun 8, 2019 13:50:43 GMT -5
- there is no longer any sign of a pull-off - I was actually puzzled over why Allen and Wilson would have selected this location, as well as the kidnappers - but from the 1932 photos you can see that there was a pull-off there, and that Beden Brook also played a role. I also was considering that perhaps the kidnappers pulled off on Old Mt Rose road, and then entered the wood from that side - however, the pull-off makes the most logical sense.
Thanks for the great info. Fascinating to see these historical sites now. Did the "kidnappers" even enter the woods? I don't they did given that the fact the burlap sack was essentially at the turnoff and evidence the baby was inside of that was found. Seems clear the sack was basically thrown from a car at the turnoff and wildlife dragged the body a few meters to where it was found.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 15:01:20 GMT -5
I also was considering that perhaps the kidnappers pulled off on Old Mt Rose road, and then entered the wood from that side - however, the pull-off makes the most logical sense. Welcome back to the board and thanks for such an informative post!! I have not been to that area and have only seen the 1932 photos. I enjoyed reading your exploration very much! I never gave a lot of consideration about the kidnappers using the back road into the woods until I read Michael's Vol. One of The Dark Corners. His first chapter, Strange Vehicles, contains a sighting where this section of road (Old Mount Rose Road) is mentioned. See page 3, the sighting of Christine Thompson. She told police about the unusual car activity on this road, first Sunday, February 28, then on Monday, February 29 and then the night of the kidnapping, March 1. Initially, after the kidnapping, Charlie had to be buried somewhere while the negotiations were going on and until the ransom money was secured. Perhaps a place had been selected back off of Old Mount Rose Road that would allow advance preparation and also be a secure burial place. Once the ransom was paid the body was then dug up and in the burlap bag was dropped on the side of the road to be discovered but instead was dragged into the wooded area by animals where it was discovered by William Allen. I would love to see some of the photos you took! Thanks for the offer to share.
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Post by lightningjew on Jun 8, 2019 22:03:06 GMT -5
Here are some photos of what I understand is the spot. Dropped pin at the exact location of the body, and a ground view looking into the woods, where the pulloff used to be. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 20:07:49 GMT -5
Here are some photos of what I understand is the spot. Dropped pin at the exact location of the body, and a ground view looking into the woods, where the pulloff used to be. Great pictures, LJ! Everything really is overgrown now. You would never know there had been a pull off in that location. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by Michael on Jun 11, 2019 8:24:44 GMT -5
That's it - somewhat disappointing - if anyone has an interest I could post up some of the photos - I took some from the road, a few of the GPS location, and quite a few in the woods in the area. I would very much like to get an opportunity to detect the side of the driveway at Highfields and maybe the area where the ladder was found - but not sure how to see my way clear to get permission. Thanks for the post Lee. Glad someone finally did this (it could be someone had prior but I am not aware). At least now we know. I dug some soil samples for Liz Pagel back in 2003 (I believe) and I simply went to the door and asked permission. Seems like yesterday but wow - quite a few years have gone by already. If I were to try today I'd probably give them a call first. I hope they let you. I recommend finding the location of the old construction road (direction of the footprints) and detecting on/around there out to the main road. With all of the traffic that occurred back then you are bound to find something interesting.
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Post by wolfman666 on Jun 11, 2019 9:07:01 GMT -5
back in 1992 when I went to the site, they had a marker in the woods, but next time I went it wasn't there anymore
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Post by stella7 on Jun 11, 2019 9:48:40 GMT -5
Lee, I've always wanted to do this too! I pass by there several times a week but I'm not quite sure of the exact location and I've always thought it was private property and I would be trespassing. Did you park on the dead end road and walk around or on Princeton Ave. Would you say that William Allen had to cross Bedens Brook to get to the spot where Charlies body was found? Amy, if you're up for it sometime we could meeting and trapse around together.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 10:47:32 GMT -5
Amy, if you're up for it sometime we could meeting and trapse around together. Absolutely would be up for this. Shoot me a PM. We will set something up!
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 11, 2019 12:18:23 GMT -5
Wow - sorry - got busy this past weekend and just checking back in now. Thank you for the comments! I am very intrigued by the reference to the strange vehicles and plan to check that out. If this is the case, it may well be worth working that depression closer to the Old Mt Rose road. I parked once at the park opposite and walked, and then at the tip of the triangle - at an angle the one time - and then twice just flat against the road - there at the Old Mt Rose road.
I'll also work out a way to share photos - may need to make use of my flickr account. I guess one question for Captain LJ - what makes you think that is the spot? I will tell you - I went 4x and was confused each time about where the spot was - my first effort ended up being the same as my last - I am assuming as markers the sides of the road with what appear to be older workings at the side of the road to protect a vehicle from falling into the stream. I'll post the photos. I thought that the pull-off corresponded with the Beden Brook somehow - the brook was what I used as my reference point. On my second trip, I was on the opposite side of the brook - almost no hits at all. On my third trip - much higher up. It was very open and swampy - and there were no hits of any kind.
Just pointing out - close to the side of the road, aside from a metal guard rail, there is a LOT of garbage. Empty paint cans, hubcaps, beer cans - you name it. I also view the guardrail as meaning construction took place there at some point, and the grounds would have been compromised since 1932.
Stella - there are signs posted - and I read them over carefully each time - just in case! They do not say anything about 'No trespassing' - only that the site is protected - no Hunting, and I think no dumping. I could be wrong - my take was that they entered there and were able to walk straight into the woods - I will say that in 2019 - the closer to Beden brook, the more mud and swamp-like conditions there are. Crossing the brook in 2019 is not all that easy. I was wearing boots and was concerned about some spots that were about 2 feet deep in places.
On getting out of the car and the sack - I wasn't clear on where the sack was located. Honestly - I picked up a copy of Cemetery John - I became a bit despondent when I realized that the book really should have been about 15 pages - but I read it all anyway. What really piqued my interest was the delay in a response by Cemetery John in responding to Jaffsie's request for a proof - days elapsed with no word - then the package arrives. So, in the margins, I scribbled - 'They need to time to return to the baby and remove the sleeper suit.' And I wondered if it was left in the sack - or if it had been buried. I did see comments concerning the autopsy that the state of decay would be consistent with CAL Jr having been dead the day he was kidnapped - but still, it seemed off that there was such a delay. Then the author remarked on the package - wondering why they would have taken the time to clean it. And I felt as if my scribbling may have held something interesting. Was it dirt and/or blood that needed to be removed? Or did they simply purchase a new Dr Denton and launder it. If they did - what happened to the original? It felt to me as I was reading it that the kidnappers needed the time to drive back to the scene of the crime, exhume the body - and remove the suit - which would need to be cleaned to hide any evidence that the child was deceased. Then - I wondered about finding that broken mattock and thought - what if there was an attempt to rebury the body, but the tool broke? But that doesn't really work, as there would have been an original hole.
I don't know about the body being dragged that far and then being somewhat hidden under the brush there - I guess the only animal I can think of that may do something like that would be a big cat - like a bobcat - but then why wouldn't it have been more deteriorated than the condition it was found in? The bones of the deer back there are picked clean. Almost seems suspicious that the body would have been found in the state it was - I would have imagined that turkey vultures would have found it.
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Post by trojanusc on Jun 11, 2019 14:33:37 GMT -5
Wow - sorry - got busy this past weekend and just checking back in now. Thank you for the comments! I am very intrigued by the reference to the strange vehicles and plan to check that out. If this is the case, it may well be worth working that depression closer to the Old Mt Rose road. I parked once at the park opposite and walked, and then at the tip of the triangle - at an angle the one time - and then twice just flat against the road - there at the Old Mt Rose road. I'll also work out a way to share photos - may need to make use of my flickr account. I guess one question for Captain LJ - what makes you think that is the spot? I will tell you - I went 4x and was confused each time about where the spot was - my first effort ended up being the same as my last - I am assuming as markers the sides of the road with what appear to be older workings at the side of the road to protect a vehicle from falling into the stream. I'll post the photos. I thought that the pull-off corresponded with the Beden Brook somehow - the brook was what I used as my reference point. On my second trip, I was on the opposite side of the brook - almost no hits at all. On my third trip - much higher up. It was very open and swampy - and there were no hits of any kind. Just pointing out - close to the side of the road, aside from a metal guard rail, there is a LOT of garbage. Empty paint cans, hubcaps, beer cans - you name it. I also view the guardrail as meaning construction took place there at some point, and the grounds would have been compromised since 1932. Stella - there are signs posted - and I read them over carefully each time - just in case! They do not say anything about 'No trespassing' - only that the site is protected - no Hunting, and I think no dumping. I could be wrong - my take was that they entered there and were able to walk straight into the woods - I will say that in 2019 - the closer to Beden brook, the more mud and swamp-like conditions there are. Crossing the brook in 2019 is not all that easy. I was wearing boots and was concerned about some spots that were about 2 feet deep in places. On getting out of the car and the sack - I wasn't clear on where the sack was located. Honestly - I picked up a copy of Cemetery John - I became a bit despondent when I realized that the book really should have been about 15 pages - but I read it all anyway. What really piqued my interest was the delay in a response by Cemetery John in responding to Jaffsie's request for a proof - days elapsed with no word - then the package arrives. So, in the margins, I scribbled - 'They need to time to return to the baby and remove the sleeper suit.' And I wondered if it was left in the sack - or if it had been buried. I did see comments concerning the autopsy that the state of decay would be consistent with CAL Jr having been dead the day he was kidnapped - but still, it seemed off that there was such a delay. Then the author remarked on the package - wondering why they would have taken the time to clean it. And I felt as if my scribbling may have held something interesting. Was it dirt and/or blood that needed to be removed? Or did they simply purchase a new Dr Denton and launder it. If they did - what happened to the original? It felt to me as I was reading it that the kidnappers needed the time to drive back to the scene of the crime, exhume the body - and remove the suit - which would need to be cleaned to hide any evidence that the child was deceased. Then - I wondered about finding that broken mattock and thought - what if there was an attempt to rebury the body, but the tool broke? But that doesn't really work, as there would have been an original hole. I don't know about the body being dragged that far and then being somewhat hidden under the brush there - I guess the only animal I can think of that may do something like that would be a big cat - like a bobcat - but then why wouldn't it have been more deteriorated than the condition it was found in? The bones of the deer back there are picked clean. Almost seems suspicious that the body would have been found in the state it was - I would have imagined that turkey vultures would have found it. It has been suggested that the body had been partially embalmed and/or medically examined with some deeper organs surgically removed, as some of the more "surface" oriented organs remained in tact, which is not something wildlife would typically do. I believe Michael has suggested something somewhat similar - that these organs were "inedible" and bypassed by wildlife for the deeper ones. If the child was "removed" from the house for his ailments due to a deeper belief in eugenics, I don't think it is a stretch to assume that he would be "studied."
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Post by lightningjew on Jun 11, 2019 17:51:07 GMT -5
Hi Lee. I base this on aerial photos of the scene at the time, then I zoom that down to street view on Google Maps.
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 11, 2019 20:28:26 GMT -5
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 11, 2019 20:36:44 GMT -5
So if I use the newspaper article map - it seems to correspond very well with your map marker. But what I was stumped about were these barriers on the sides of the road, which to me, seemed like the kind of construction you might see relating to a stream passing under the roadway. And then it almost appears as if the stream continues to run along the cut into the pull-off. But the brook itself in 2019 is a bit wide - if it was that wide in 1932, then that isn't it? But what would those fence-like structures be used for? And what would be the purpose of the pull-off? Seems to make sense if it was for accessing the water? Also worth noting - the angle of the stream on the map seems to match - not today though - it is a straight shot under the road now - running perpendicular to the road.
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 11, 2019 20:39:43 GMT -5
GPS location taken ~75 paces in from road edge. Attachments:
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 11, 2019 21:09:44 GMT -5
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Post by lightningjew on Jun 11, 2019 21:29:46 GMT -5
I would think that those barriers would be to prevent a car from going off the road, into some area below. This would indicate that the road went over a stream or something at that spot, so I would say that your placement of the site, just a bit farther north up the road from mine, is probably the more accurate one, matching where those old guardrails would've been. My placement came from newspaper maps and renderings that may not have been 100% correct. Anyway, great job, and I love the photos in the Flickr folder!
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Post by ziki on Jun 12, 2019 5:18:00 GMT -5
It has been suggested that the body had been partially embalmed and/or medically examined with some deeper organs surgically removed, as some of the more "surface" oriented organs remained in tact, which is not something wildlife would typically do. I believe Michael has suggested something somewhat similar - that these organs were "inedible" and bypassed by wildlife for the deeper ones. If the child was "removed" from the house for his ailments due to a deeper belief in eugenics, I don't think it is a stretch to assume that he would be "studied." Hello everybody, just an idea: what if Charlie jr. died due to an unsuccessful surgery / surgical experiment?
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Post by Michael on Jun 12, 2019 6:46:24 GMT -5
I've posted this before but for the benefit of those who may not have seen it I wanted to do it again. Here is the sketch Trooper Carmody made with his report of May 13, 1932: imgur.com/xhyLxEU
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 12, 2019 10:33:03 GMT -5
Thank you LJ!
Michael - that is very intriguing to be sure - on the face of it, the pull-off would have been located where I placed it - at the Beden Brook crossing. But as per that sketch, and comments made earlier in this thread - one would have HAD to have crossed the Beden Brook to reach that spot [from the pull-off]. I don't know what the brook looked like in 1932 - it may well have had a small structure over it, leading into the woods - bit of an assumption - however, why else would two truck drivers take that direction to relieve themselves and potentially get their feet wet and their footwear soiled otherwise? Quite common to find hastily created make-shift 'bridge' type structures out in the woods. But the 1st problem I see is with the second stream. It doesn't appear on the older maps - of course, they are not as detailed as I'd like - and it certainly doesn't exist today. The stream, you would have to again assume, would have to pass under Old Mt Rose Road. Seems odd not to see that on the maps that there are. Second is the film footage - which seems like people are walking directly into the woods - perpendicular to the road.
I have no issue returning and trying this spot just to be on the safe side. I know I was not that close to the stream - as it is pretty muddy back there and the bramble closer to the water is practically impassable in spots. The large tree may have survived - that certainly would make a good marker. There is a large tree back there closer to Old Mt Rose road that has been cut - the trunk is on the ground - but that is on the opposite side of the Beden.
BTW - note the bizarre ghost images in Google maps which can be seen in the graphic. Odd.
I will try one last time - based upon that sketch. Pretty excited actually. If the thumb apparatus can be found it would be a very cool find.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 17:23:03 GMT -5
GPS location taken ~75 paces in from road edge. According to the statements William Allen and Orville Wilson made about finding the body, they were coming up from Princeton towards Hopewell on the Princeton-Hopewell Road. They pulled the truck to the side of Princeton-Hopewell Road, not into the pull off. I think they pulled over just before the fence-like structures that appear in your 1932 pictures. Allen then got out of the truck and crossed the road and went into the woods/brush area and found the body. These men do not mention anything about crossing through/over Beden Brook to get to the corpse. Here is a picture from the archives that was taken at the Mount Rose Hill location where the body was found. It is looking out towards the Princeton-Hopewell Road. There is a parked vehicle on that road. The car is hard to make out in this photo. Sorry! I know for certain the car is there. I have a second, darker version that shows the car better but didn't reproduce well when I scanned it in. So you have to look carefully at this lighter version of the picture to see the car through the bushes. It is about center in the picture. I was hoping this might help a little bit with showing the distance from the location where the body was found to the road. imgur.com/xy1USZp
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Post by lightningjew on Jun 12, 2019 19:04:44 GMT -5
If they were heading north toward Hopewell and pulled over before reaching the fences, if you look at the diagram Michael posted above, William Allen wouldn't have needed to cross Beden Brook to get to the spot where the body was found. The pulloff just to the north, on the other side of Beden Brook, was probably just a natural gathering place for the curious and the press--though I think that was where the body was originally left to be found. Anyway, I think everything pretty well matches up for the woods at 101 Hopewell-Princeton Dr. (on Google Maps) being The Spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 7:50:13 GMT -5
If they were heading north toward Hopewell and pulled over before reaching the fences, if you look at the diagram Michael posted above, William Allen wouldn't have needed to cross Beden Brook to get to the spot where the body was found. The pulloff just to the north, on the other side of Beden Brook was probably just a convenient gathering place for people and press--though I think it was where the body was originally left to be found. Anyway, I think everything pretty well matches up for the woods at 101 Hopewell-Princeton Dr. (on Google Maps) being The Spot. I agree. As Michael's posted drawing shows, Allen and Wilson would have crossed the grassy knoll to reach the body without having to traverse Beden Brook. I think the location matches nicely!
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 14, 2019 16:03:32 GMT -5
I know I'm raining on someone's parade here, but this search for the exact site of the child's dead body seems to be, in all probability, just about worthless in adding new knowledge to the case. The chances of finding significant artifacts involved in the case by metal detectors in the vicinity of the body location are about the same as finding gold there. It's just a rural woodland. And bear in mind that there is a good chance that the child whose body was found there wasn't even CAL Jr. As I've posted on these threads a number of times, the right-foot toe deformities described by Dr. Van Ingen re the living CAL Jr. do not match the right-foot toe deformities described in Dr. Mitchell's autopsy report on the dead body. Then, too, the identifications of the body found in the woods by CAL Sr. and by Betty Gow at the morgue - as related by Michael in "The Dark Corners" - appear to leave room for doubt. Exactly why Anne Lindbergh was absent from the ID process is a mystery within a mystery.
There are likely more fruitful alternative avenues of investigation than locating and exploring this body dump site. Looking around Highfields makes more sense, but it's unlikely to do much either. I'd like to suggest DNA tests on the human bones found in the woods, but unfortunately the Lindbergh family was given control of them by the NJ AG.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 17:18:58 GMT -5
And bear in mind that there is a good chance that the child whose body was found there wasn't even CAL Jr. Report on Betty Gow's ID of the body that was found. imgur.com/OwFZ6Wx
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 15, 2019 13:56:30 GMT -5
And bear in mind that there is a good chance that the child whose body was found there wasn't even CAL Jr. Report on Betty Gow's ID of the body that was found. imgur.com/OwFZ6WxThanks for your post, Amy. I'm not all that impressed by Betty Gow's identification. She would have a vested interest in making a positive ID of the body immediately, to put closure to the issue of CAL Jr.'s fate so she would be able to go back to Europe ASAP. But she acted quite strangely under the circumstances, as Michael's book shows. Most importantly, her description of a small toe abnormality of the corpse differs from Dr. Mitchell's autopsy report, which mentions that the large right toe [of the body] overlapped the first and second toes. That's according to Noel Behn in "Lindbergh:The Crime", paperback edition, p. 192. So posting an image of the Mitchell autopsy report might be helpful. Furthermore, the supposed dentition pattern of the teeth on the corpse matching Charlie's doesn't mean much, because the same would likely hold for any child of approximately the same age. Then, too, Dr. Van Ingen was unable to ID the body. Now who would be more capable of being objective in the identification process, Dr. Van Ingen or Betty Gow? I'll take Van Ingen any day.
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 16, 2019 12:09:05 GMT -5
Hi all - just to clarify - finding the spot and metal detecting was pure optimism - and again my biggest hope would have been to find the thumb guard. Anything else found would be pretty much impossible to say with any certainty - that was from May 12, 1932 and left by the kidnappers. What I WAS hoping - was that there would be some traces left behind to help pinpoint the spot - that type of crowd all kneeling and moving around in the dark are bound to drop something - I found nothing like that - not even a penny. Using that sketch - I entered the wood along where the pull-off was - which again, I assume based upon the aerial map - ran alongside the brook. There was a massive double [edit - double wide] railroad tie back there - right next to the brook - it just doesn't belong there - unless it was once used as a small bridge to cross the stream - however, it doesn't need to date back to 1932 - it could be a replacement. There is no bridge there now - but I paced in about 20 feet, then turned toward the brook and there it was - at a bend. I assumed the bend was the location of a bridge - it looked like the easiest spot to cross over. I waded down the stream all the way to the little bridge on Old Mt Rose. I saw what could be the large tree marker - or [edit - no. Does not match the sketch - the large tree was closer to the fork between the two trees and is meaningless] not. Sure was big and I took a photo. I also found a second stream - much smaller than the Beden - more like a spring runoff. I'll post some photos. The location across the stream - where I thought to detect based on the map - had a large pile of bear skat and evidence of an animal having been sleeping there - the ground was all matted down in one spot and I also saw bear prints. This sort of heightened the experience LOL I did a good thorough job of detecting the area as best I could - even traipsing into some 6 foot high bramble. I got no hits - none at all. : ( All in all, if they crossed, or if they did not - I believe I explored the other locations. My phone was too weak to get a GPS location - that kind of sucked, but I can pinpoint where I was on a map. If Allen and Wilson parked past the pull-off and walked directly in - that is the spot I explored yesterday. If they pulled in to the pull-off and walked in to the wood directly, that was the other spot I explored prior - where I did get a few hits. Photos to follow - I may just add the to the Flickr folder...
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Post by leeforman2 on Jun 16, 2019 17:45:52 GMT -5
Updated the Flickr folder - these are iPhone photos - didn't much feel like lugging the Nikon along. This link is to a photo of the area that I felt corresponded to the 'x' on the map. Off to the right is a spot that seems to be inhabited by a bear. Although I didn't get any hits - it would definitely be worth a second pass following winter - when the vegetation is less. Just no way I did a thorough sweep. flic.kr/p/2gfhNgi
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Post by lurp173 on Jun 16, 2019 19:02:41 GMT -5
Leeforman2,
I may be misunderstanding your posts in regards to where you are searching off the Princeton-Hopewell Road, but if you are near Beden Brook, Old Mt Rose Road and across from the old St. Michael's Orphanage site (now St. Michael's Farm Preserve) you are too close to Hopewell. The site is further south (towards Princeton) on the Princeton-Hopewell Road. You continue across Beden Brooks, the road bears to the right and goes uphill towards Mt. Rose. As the road bears to the right, it straightens out on the uphill climb. There is a guard rail on the right, and approximately where this guard rail ends, the site is on the right somewhat near the first telephoine pole (maybe half way up the hill before you get to Crusher Road). I attempted to attach a street goggle photo of this area but it said that the "file was too big". Sorry. The site is not across from the old St, Michael's Orphanage site.
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Post by lightningjew on Jun 16, 2019 20:54:06 GMT -5
Hi Lurp, Is this the site? The dropped pin indicates the body, and the street view looks into the woods. That's what I thought at first, but there's no stream at that location, as there is at the sight farther north or in the diagram Michael posted, drawn at the time of the discovery. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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