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Post by bernardt on Feb 11, 2022 16:46:11 GMT -5
For the sake of being complete, I should add that two bills turned up in Queens and two in Brooklyn.
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Post by bernardt on Feb 12, 2022 4:59:39 GMT -5
On the day the Lindbergh baby's body was discovered, Fisch applied for a visa. Shortly after this, he moved to the Kohl boarding house where his friends Karl and Gerta Henkel lived. The boarding house is located on East 127th St.near the intersection of Lexington Avenue which runs south to Gramercy Park in almost a straight line. In 1932 most of the random money discovered form clusters in Manhattan areas. Fisch did not appear to own a car but used public transportation or sought rides from his friends. Public transportation would have been easily available on Lexington Ave.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 16, 2022 10:12:57 GMT -5
Hello. Bernardt: The clusters you provide in the post on ransom bills do seem to concentrate in Manhattan. Consider though the possibility might relate to the Max Schling's Seed Store at 618 Madison Avenue. The elder Carl Giesler worked there are manager of the seeds department, and if I remember correctly the younger Giesler (Carl Donald) also worked there. Rev. Burns did say that the person coming to him to confess was a gardener; he did not give a name. The handwriting on the bank deposit for J.J. Faulkner was checked and it did not match that of the father. Perhaps someone would know if the handwriting on the letter to Gov. Hoffman was checked against the younger Carl's handwriting. Carl O. must have died in 1935, so he could not have been the writer of the letter. (There has been some interest in the handwriting on another thread lately.)
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Post by bernardt on Feb 17, 2022 11:41:57 GMT -5
I checked the distance between Max Schling's store on 618 Madison Ave. in Manhattan and the discovery of the ransom bills in that area. A number of them, including restaurants, are within 2 miles of Schling's store. Others also were discovered in Manhattan somewhat farther away but down major highways such as Lexington Ave. and 5th Ave. As a teenager, Carl Donald Giessler lived at the Plymouth Apartments with his father and stepmother Jane nee Faulkner. He married a woman from Mt. Vernon where one ransom bill was passed in the post office on June 30, 1932. The elder Carl was born in Prussia and married a woman (Carl Donald's mother) in Larchmont. Comments have already been made concerning the proximity of Carl Donald's address on Decatur Ave. just a couple of blocks away from Condon's residence. Carl Donald was acquainted with Ralph Hacker, Condon's son-in-law. Both father and son worked for the Max Schling's store in Manhattan; hence my interest in the cluster of ransom bills in that borough. The bills are small--five dollar for the most part, some ten dollar bills, and fewer 20s.There is a gap with no bills detected in Jan. and Feb. of 1933. All this information can be found in the FBI files, by the way. My curiosity was piqued by the Rev. Vincent Burns' statement that his visitor needing confession was a gardener and thought it possible that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the mystery guest. Carl O. Giesslter's obituary appeared in 1935, so he would not have written the second J.J. Faulkner letter. I was interested to see if there might be any evidence that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the gardener who was said to have given Rev. Burns information concerning the kidnapping case.
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Post by trojanusc on Feb 17, 2022 12:47:01 GMT -5
I checked the distance between Max Schling's store on 618 Madison Ave. in Manhattan and the discovery of the ransom bills in that area. A number of them, including restaurants, are within 2 miles of Schling's store. Others also were discovered in Manhattan somewhat farther away but down major highways such as Lexington Ave. and 5th Ave. As a teenager, Carl Donald Giessler lived at the Plymouth Apartments with his father and stepmother Jane nee Faulkner. He married a woman from Mt. Vernon where one ransom bill was passed in the post office on June 30, 1932. The elder Carl was born in Prussia and married a woman (Carl Donald's mother) in Larchmont. Comments have already been made concerning the proximity of Carl Donald's address on Decatur Ave. just a couple of blocks away from Condon's residence. Carl Donald was acquainted with Ralph Hacker, Condon's son-in-law. Both father and son worked for the Max Schling's store in Manhattan; hence my interest in the cluster of ransom bills in that borough. The bills are small--five dollar for the most part, some ten dollar bills, and fewer 20s.There is a gap with no bills detected in Jan. and Feb. of 1933. All this information can be found in the FBI files, by the way. My curiosity was piqued by the Rev. Vincent Burns' statement that his visitor needing confession was a gardener and thought it possible that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the mystery guest. Carl O. Giesslter's obituary appeared in 1935, so he would not have written the second J.J. Faulkner letter. I was interested to see if there might be any evidence that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the gardener who was said to have given Rev. Burns information concerning the kidnapping case. I'm not really sure two miles in Manhattan means anything? In Manhattan two miles is quite far, given how compact everything is.
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Post by bernardt on Feb 17, 2022 15:17:35 GMT -5
The mileage given between points is factual according to the map of Manhattan. Times would admittedly be approximate and apply to modern transportation. The minutes and seconds given between stops are of the current era. However, the public transportation in 1932 was dependable, and there were major streets traversing Manhattan, esp. Lexington Ave. and 5th Avenue. We are not speaking of pedestrians walking the distance, obviously. Automobiles needs to stop for lights and find a place to park, etc. If someone needs to buy a lunch or pay a bill or make a deposit at the bank, there could well be a preference located down the street, not just across the street.
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Post by bernardt on Feb 17, 2022 15:19:09 GMT -5
I should add that Carl Donald's wife was from Mt. Vernon NY and that her parents continued to live there after her marriage.
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Post by trojanusc on Feb 17, 2022 23:28:58 GMT -5
The mileage given between points is factual according to the map of Manhattan. Times would admittedly be approximate and apply to modern transportation. The minutes and seconds given between stops are of the current era. However, the public transportation in 1932 was dependable, and there were major streets traversing Manhattan, esp. Lexington Ave. and 5th Avenue. We are not speaking of pedestrians walking the distance, obviously. Automobiles needs to stop for lights and find a place to park, etc. If someone needs to buy a lunch or pay a bill or make a deposit at the bank, there could well be a preference located down the street, not just across the street. Right, I understand that, but to say that there is likely some sort of correlation because something was only two miles apart is really speculative given that two miles, in Manhattan terms, is a VERY large distance. In other cities not really, but in Manhattan there's a million or more people in those two miles. The entire island is only 2.3 miles wide and ten miles long.
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Post by bernardt on Feb 18, 2022 6:09:57 GMT -5
Max Schling's seed store was located at 618 Madison Ave in Manhattan. I calculated the distance of any known source of a ransom bill to this store. (The sources of many were unknown.) Two ransom bills were passed at Child's Restaurant at 570 Lexington Ave. which is 0.6 miles away from the Schling store. Another was passed at a restaurant at Second Ave and East St. which is 0.8 miles away from the seed store. Several were discovered by the Guaranty Trust Company located at Madison Ave and 60th St. which is one minute away from the seed store. The Central Hanover Bank and Trust which identified some of the ransom bills is located on Madison Ave. and 42 ned is is 1.3 miles away from the MS store. I was looking for clusters around the MS area under two miles away. The two miles was the limit to the radius I had assigned for the research using the FBI files as a source/
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Post by bernardt on Feb 18, 2022 6:32:18 GMT -5
I should explain the reason for the approach. Rev. Vincent Burns said that the man who approached him and who had apparently some action in the kidnapping was a gardener. In reviewing the detection of the ransom bills in 1932, I noted that most of them were passed or discovered in Manhattan. Max Schling's famous store was located in Manhattan, so it occurred to me that any serious gardener would purchase seeds or work at the store. I was looking for a possible correlation between the store's location and the discovery of the ransom bills. '
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Post by Guest on Feb 20, 2022 0:20:54 GMT -5
I checked the distance between Max Schling's store on 618 Madison Ave. in Manhattan and the discovery of the ransom bills in that area. A number of them, including restaurants, are within 2 miles of Schling's store. Others also were discovered in Manhattan somewhat farther away but down major highways such as Lexington Ave. and 5th Ave. As a teenager, Carl Donald Giessler lived at the Plymouth Apartments with his father and stepmother Jane nee Faulkner. He married a woman from Mt. Vernon where one ransom bill was passed in the post office on June 30, 1932. The elder Carl was born in Prussia and married a woman (Carl Donald's mother) in Larchmont. Comments have already been made concerning the proximity of Carl Donald's address on Decatur Ave. just a couple of blocks away from Condon's residence. Carl Donald was acquainted with Ralph Hacker, Condon's son-in-law. Both father and son worked for the Max Schling's store in Manhattan; hence my interest in the cluster of ransom bills in that borough. The bills are small--five dollar for the most part, some ten dollar bills, and fewer 20s.There is a gap with no bills detected in Jan. and Feb. of 1933. All this information can be found in the FBI files, by the way. My curiosity was piqued by the Rev. Vincent Burns' statement that his visitor needing confession was a gardener and thought it possible that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the mystery guest. Carl O. Giesslter's obituary appeared in 1935, so he would not have written the second J.J. Faulkner letter. I was interested to see if there might be any evidence that Carl Donald Giessler might have been the gardener who was said to have given Rev. Burns information concerning the kidnapping case. For the sake of accuracy: 1) Carl Donald Giessler was not acquainted with Ralph Hacker, he was acquainted with one Rudolph Hacker. 2) Carl Donald Giessler did not live at the Plymouth Apartments with his father. When the father married Jane E. Faulkner in 1921, she moved in with him, not the other way around. Not that it makes any difference in the scheme of things.
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Post by bernardt on Feb 20, 2022 7:36:59 GMT -5
The FBi Files state that when Jane Emily Faulkner married Carl O. Giessler that the "couple resided in Apartment 64 of the Plymouth Apartments from 1921 to the year 1925, after which they moved from this building and took up their residence in a modest one family frame house at 120 North Chatsworth Avenue, Larchmont N.Y. where they have lived ever since." Chapter "Subjects and Suspects:Summary Report" Carl Donald was born in Palisades Park N.J. in 1905-1906. The family was still living there in 1910 and going to a Presbyterian church in Tenefly in 1910. Ralph Hacker and his brother Glenn were architects and ran a business (Hacker and Hacker) in Palisades Park near Fort Lee, specializing in designing schools. The business was located in Bergen County The FBi Files indicate that Ralph Hacker and Carl Donald Giessler were "acquainted" (not "friends" which is a possibility given the proximity to Palisades Park though Ralph Hacker would have been several years older than Carl Donald. Ralph was born in 1893, The Hackers did not live in New Jersey, however, but resided in Bedford Park near the Botanical Gardens in the Bronx. Krippendorf, who was associated with the Giesslers lived with Leo Rodel who was a close friend and associate of Ralph Hacker, so it was possible that the FBI made the association of Hacker and Carl Donald Giessler through Krippendorf and Rodel. I am not suggesting that the FBI Files are 100% accurate, but the association of the Hackers and the Giesslers through Krippendorf (who was a suspicious character) and Leo Rodel is entirely possible. Krippendorf is another story. Connections are important in our examination of the kidnapping case. They do not prove anything necessarily, but they may give us some leads and so should not be lightly dismissed.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 20, 2022 8:48:31 GMT -5
I agree. Condon's daughter, Myra Condon Hacker, stayed close to her father throughout the time of his dealings with the kidnappers. She would have had a great deal of understanding of her father's personality and his personality problems. He obviously needed help, and she was there to provide it. She would also have shared her knowledge and concerns with her husband Ralph, so Ralph would have had some insights not shared with the general public. Note that other members of the family did not want to get involved with the kidnapping scene. Because Ralph most likely then had some inside knowledge, he may have passed that information on in conversation with others close to him. Condon had a past problem. We do not know what that problem was but have dealt with it several times on this board. Ralph Hacker may have inadvertently provided that clue to the wrong persons, and that knowledge trapped Condon into a role with limits that he had not foreseen. When the FBI Files were written, Ralph Hacker had not been thoroughly investigated, but the importance of his relationships with others should not be underestimated. Whom did he know? What information could he have passed on? This is one aspect of the case that is wholly deserving of a greater investigation.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 20, 2022 9:15:20 GMT -5
One more detail that might be of interest: when Carl O. and Jane Giessler moved out of their Plymouth apartment in 1925, it was occupied by Albin Wiegner and his family. Albin was the brother-in-law of Carl O. (married to Carl's sister). So the apartment was passed on to family members!
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Post by bernardt on Feb 20, 2022 12:32:50 GMT -5
The business of Hacker and Hacker was located in the Fort Lee Trust Building on Lemoine Avenue in Fort Lee. The Hacketts designed a number of schools in Bergen County, so the business must have been successful. One account stated that Ralph worked out at a gym in Fort Lee so he very likely made some acquaintances in that group. He would have been about seven years older than his wife Myra, and he died in 1966.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 20, 2022 12:46:31 GMT -5
OK, but in January of 1936 Ralph Hackett denied knowing the Giesslers personally. Their friend Leo Rodel did live on Tom Hunter Road in Fort Lee N.J. and William Krippendorf lived with him for a time. The latter two were friendly with Phyllis Giessler Leipold's husband, the one who had committed suicide in 1933. Leipold was also a gardener, by the way.
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Post by Michael on Feb 20, 2022 14:35:58 GMT -5
The business of Hacker and Hacker was located in the Fort Lee Trust Building on Lemoine Avenue in Fort Lee. The Hacketts designed a number of schools in Bergen County, so the business must have been successful. One account stated that Ralph worked out at a gym in Fort Lee so he very likely made some acquaintances in that group. He would have been about seven years older than his wife Myra, and he died in 1966. Ralph Hacker (Condon’s son-in-law) and Rudolf Hacker (Krippendorf’s friend) were two different people. Police originally suspected they were the same or connected in some way and investigated but turned up nothing in this regard. If you are interested in the Giesslers, I addressed that angle, ad nauseam, in V3 at Chapter 4.
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Post by Guest on Feb 21, 2022 17:48:07 GMT -5
The business of Hacker and Hacker was located in the Fort Lee Trust Building on Lemoine Avenue in Fort Lee. The Hacketts designed a number of schools in Bergen County, so the business must have been successful. One account stated that Ralph worked out at a gym in Fort Lee so he very likely made some acquaintances in that group. He would have been about seven years older than his wife Myra, and he died in 1966. Ralph Hacker (Condon’s son-in-law) and Rudolf Hacker (Krippendorf’s friend) were two different people. Police originally suspected they were the same or connected in some way and investigated but turned up nothing in this regard. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> If you are interested in the Giesslers, I addressed that angle, ad nauseam, in V3 at Chapter 4. Thank you, Michael, for always straightening out such unnecessary confusion so competently. (When the talk about the "Hacketts" started I was afraid Buddy Hackett was going to be drawn into this mess...)
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Post by Michael on Feb 22, 2022 19:33:48 GMT -5
Thank you, Michael, for always straightening out such unnecessary confusion so competently. I remember being where they are at on this subject myself after reading about it in one of the books ... A&Ms I think. It's what motivated me to get to the Archives so I could find out more. Instead it showed me the position was a mistake. Not long after I had to abandon the approach of specifically searching for certain subjects and just instead started to go thru everything piece by piece, folder by folder. The enormity of whats at the archives proved there was no other way. And of course, once I was finished, I had learned so much I had to do it all over again because what didn't seem valuable the first time around was by the time I was finished. Crazy right? So while most people were taking their vacations at the Jersey Shore, I was at the Archives - and looking back - I wouldn't change a thing!
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