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Post by Michael on Jul 29, 2018 10:11:45 GMT -5
Michael, have you seen the original of this note? According to some newspaper articles, it had been changed from " the baby is on the ROAD, to the boat. If this was true, would that mean the kidnappers had moved or would shortly move the body to Mt. Rose? The burlap bag was found on the shoulder of the road. No. I've seen hi-res scans of it but never the actual note itself. The real notes that I saw all had the holes in them. I've seen what you are talking about alleged. The writer is talking about a boat, but that one "B" looks altered. Could it just be a method of disguise or a Freudian Slip of some sort? "a" in Gay does appear to have been a "u" but the "a" in that word "Boad" looks like it was constructed that way as well. So here again, it could just be the writer trying to alter the handwriting in some way. It's an interesting topic for discussion for sure.
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Post by Wayne on Jul 29, 2018 17:06:49 GMT -5
Michael, have you seen the original of this note? According to some newspaper articles, it had been changed from " the baby is on the ROAD, to the boat. If this was true, would that mean the kidnappers had moved or would shortly move the body to Mt. Rose? The burlap bag was found on the shoulder of the road. ilovedfw, Does this help? Attachment DeletedIn addition to looking at the word "boad", take a look at the word "gay"... it really looks like it might have originally been ""gun".
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Post by Wayne on Jul 29, 2018 17:09:02 GMT -5
Also, notice the 2 'k"s. Same as the other 60 "k"s scattered over the 15 ransom notes.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jul 30, 2018 2:35:13 GMT -5
Better than interesting, Wayne - very good dig. Looks like trouble for Wilentz 85 years ago!
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Post by jack7 on Jul 30, 2018 3:03:10 GMT -5
Ya thanks Wayne - 85 years ago this might have helped somebody, but who knows who? Broad interpretations wouldn't prove much. The real crime is pretty dead. We keep poking at it, but we never get anywhere.
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Post by Joe on Jul 30, 2018 9:13:01 GMT -5
I think there's a bit too much being read into the intent of the Boad Nelly note. It starts off by saying the child is on a boat, period. So why would the writer later in the same note, then begin to confuse that with any reference to Gun Hill Road, which makes no nautical sense at all? Also, what some may be seeing as the re-working of certain words, is nothing more than fountain pen ink backflow, which makes it appear these words were written over. They weren't. This is what Hilda Braunlich claimed and she was wrong. The seemingly-apparent exception is the word " boat" on the fourth line, but this is nothing more than the writer originally having written "boat," then going back and correcting himself for consistency, by fudging the "t" into a "d." He did that because he spelt it "boad" everywhere else in the note. How about that for a bit of "ransom note-specific styling," Wayne? Of course, Hauptmann to his detriment, probably forgot he wrote it "Boad" in his memo book.
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Post by scathma on Jul 30, 2018 9:33:01 GMT -5
Why do you suppose "Nelly" is the only word with multiple letters not connected in the cursive style as every other word in the note was written in?
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Post by hurtelable on Jul 30, 2018 9:50:11 GMT -5
Michael, have you seen the original of this note? According to some newspaper articles, it had been changed from " the baby is on the ROAD, to the boat. If this was true, would that mean the kidnappers had moved or would shortly move the body to Mt. Rose? The burlap bag was found on the shoulder of the road. ilovedfw, Does this help? In addition to looking at the word "boad", take a look at the word "gay"... it really looks like it might have originally been ""gun". I'm not a professional forensic document examiner. but I can't see how the word "Boad" in that note was originally "Road." It would be very easy to explain why someone whose first language is German would write "Boad" instead of "boat". In German, all nouns are capitalized, and a final "d" in a word is pronounced as "t."
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Post by Joe on Jul 30, 2018 9:55:03 GMT -5
Possibly the writer appearing to be the "nice guy" by making a show of "assisting" Lindbergh in the identification of the right boat, through enunciation of the word "Nelly?"
Do you have an insight into that peculiarity?
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Post by scathma on Jul 30, 2018 11:29:17 GMT -5
Assuming that the word was always "boad" I wonder if "Nelly" might have been added later; perhaps, the name of the non-existent boad hadn't been determined at the time the note was written.
Are there other instances where Hauptmann's capital "N" was backwards as in this note?
If the tendency for a native German is to capitalize nouns, note that "boy" "person" and "gay" are not capitalized as one would expect.
To me "near Elizabeth Island" seems like an afterthought due to the conspicuous indent for the last line of a paragraph relative to the left hand alignment of the other sentences.
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Post by hurtelable on Jul 30, 2018 13:34:10 GMT -5
Assuming that the word was always "boad" I wonder if "Nelly" might have been added later; perhaps, the name of the non-existent boad hadn't been determined at the time the note was written. Are there other instances where Hauptmann's capital "N" was backwards as in this note? If the tendency for a native German is to capitalize nouns, note that "boy" "person" and "gay" are not capitalized as one would expect. To me "near Elizabeth Island" seems like an afterthought due to the conspicuous indent for the last line of a paragraph relative to the left hand alignment of the other sentences. In V. 2 of "The Dark Corners," Michael documents that there was a REAL boat named "Nelly" in the geographic area described by the note; however, the real "Nelly" was about twice as long as described in this note. BTW, there was no "Elizabeth Island," but rather a group of "Elizabeth Islands." Don't be so absolutely certain that it was Hauptmann who wrote this note; remember that issue was uncertain at the time and still is.
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Post by scathma on Jul 30, 2018 15:25:31 GMT -5
BTW, there was no "Elizabeth Island," but rather a group of "Elizabeth Islands." Don't be so absolutely certain that it was Hauptmann who wrote this note; remember that issue was uncertain at the time and still is. I was reading old posts referencing "Nelly" and gleaned your comments among others regarding "Island" versus "Islands" I don't believe Hauptmann wrote this or any of the notes; that is why I asked if the backwards "N" was something seen in his known writings. I'm inclined to believe that the note was not written on demand but well before it was purportedly given to Condon at Woodlawn and that certain information was added after the first draft. The differences in the shades of ink might have been "touch-ups" made during subsequent revisions for clarity, thus the appearance of alterations.
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Post by jack7 on Jul 30, 2018 16:36:10 GMT -5
You're reading too much into this stuff - "shades of ink", my god, what did the writer give a s@@@ about that? Boad is the key and it's a Hauptmann word and it and lots of other stuff says that BRH wrote it all. Unless it can be proven to be a clever counterfeit, it has to be Richards. Who did the counterfeit and why and how considering the way the apprehension went down are also important.
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Post by hurtelable on Jul 30, 2018 19:25:35 GMT -5
You're reading too much into this stuff - "shades of ink", my god, what did the writer give a s@@@ about that? Boad is the key and it's a Hauptmann word and it and lots of other stuff says that BRH wrote it all. Unless it can be proven to be a clever counterfeit, it has to be Richards. Who did the counterfeit and why and how considering the way the apprehension went down are also important. As I stated in this thread, anyone who (A) was a German immigrant and who was semiliterate in English OR (B) knew some German and was trying to disguise himself as a German who was borderline illiterate in English could have used the word "Boad" in the note. Hauptmann would be only one of many people who fit these descriptions. To say that "Boad…is a Hauptmann word" is very misleading. Hauptmann didn't have a copyright on the word. (LOL!)
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Post by jack7 on Jul 30, 2018 21:00:02 GMT -5
Well that's certainly true Hurtelable, but Hauptmann is in the picture of possibilities here and is known to have used the word. If you're going to try to include every German immigrant you're going to have a lot of checking to do. Semiliterate or not.
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Post by jack7 on Jul 31, 2018 2:05:11 GMT -5
And: The note was made up in probably at the most, five minutes. It's unlikely that it was made up ahead of time because how would the perps know that a "receipt" or note was wanted? So no time for shading the pen strokes or much thought at all. It probably was the answer they were going to give as to where the boy was. So that had to have been determined ahead of time. But not much thought behind the actual note.
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Post by Joe on Jul 31, 2018 6:41:45 GMT -5
BTW, there was no "Elizabeth Island," but rather a group of "Elizabeth Islands." Don't be so absolutely certain that it was Hauptmann who wrote this note; remember that issue was uncertain at the time and still is. I was reading old posts referencing "Nelly" and gleaned your comments among others regarding "Island" versus "Islands" I don't believe Hauptmann wrote this or any of the notes; that is why I asked if the backwards "N" was something seen in his known writings. I'm inclined to believe that the note was not written on demand but well before it was purportedly given to Condon at Woodlawn and that certain information was added after the first draft. The differences in the shades of ink might have been "touch-ups" made during subsequent revisions for clarity, thus the appearance of alterations.
It's Hauptmann's writing.. and he wrote the backwards "N." There are examples out there.
The ink "shading" is ink backflow, not uncommon in the use of fountain pens.
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Post by Michael on Jul 31, 2018 7:33:12 GMT -5
The ink "shading" is ink backflow, not uncommon in the use of fountain pens. This is a bit misleading. There's sometimes reasons for "backflow" to occur. For example, if a writer hesitated, paused, or slowed down backflow could occur. And of course it may not be backflow in all of the places our untrained eyes see what we believe is "backflow." What I mean by this is ... if everywhere we noticed this we simply shrugged it off as "backflow" then it would mean no one could ever make a "u" into an "a" if they used a fountain pen - and we all know that isn't true. Although I am not a big fan of handwriting analysis, here is where an unbiased professional should be consulted.
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Post by Joe on Jul 31, 2018 9:55:29 GMT -5
The ink "shading" is ink backflow, not uncommon in the use of fountain pens. This is a bit misleading. There's sometimes reasons for "backflow" to occur. For example, if a writer hesitated, paused, or slowed down backflow could occur. And of course it may not be backflow in all of the places our untrained eyes see what we believe is "backflow." What I mean by this is ... if everywhere we noticed this we simply shrugged it off as "backflow" then it would mean no one could ever make a "u" into an "a" if they used a fountain pen - and we all know that isn't true. Although I am not a big fan of handwriting analysis, here is where an unbiased professional should be consulted.
I don't think it takes an unbiased professional to recognize the relatively linear motions within most of those letters where extra ink has been deposited. Certainly there could be some hesitation on the part of the writer, based on the conditions under which this note was written, but I don't think there's any question there's significant backflow going on here throughout the missive. What examples make you think certain letters may have been re-worked in a way that suggests a change in intent, if that's what you're implying?
Given the fact the writer is talking about the child being on a boat in the first line of this note, for what purpose would he have wanted to write "gun" other than perhaps beginning to form the letter "u" unintentionally? He's referencing nautical locations here, and has written "Horseneck Beach" immediately before "gay," so it seems unlikely he's going to choose to express himself to Lindbergh as someone who has no idea what he's talking about, at the same time risk losing out on the ransom payment.
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Post by jack7 on Jul 31, 2018 12:23:40 GMT -5
The "Boad Nellie" not had to have been written in just a few minutes. Doesn't seem like time for any deep thinking. If the note was written ahead of time Hauptmann would have been carrying it instead of taking about ten minutes to fetch it.
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Post by Michael on Jul 31, 2018 15:59:56 GMT -5
I don't think it takes an unbiased professional to recognize the relatively linear motions within most of those letters where extra ink has been deposited. Certainly there could be some hesitation on the part of the writer, based on the conditions under which this note was written, but I don't think there's any question there's significant backflow going on here throughout the missive. What examples make you think certain letters may have been re-worked in a way that suggests a change in intent, if that's what you're implying? I've drawn no personal conclusions. While you offer a reasonable explanation, that (to me) does not mean its the only one. It could be completely correct or it could be correct in some places but not others. Given the fact the writer is talking about the child being on a boat in the first line of this note, for what purpose would he have wanted to write "gun" other than perhaps beginning to form the letter "u" unintentionally? He's referencing nautical locations here, and has written "Horseneck Beach" immediately before "gay," so it seems unlikely he's going to choose to express himself to Lindbergh as someone who has no idea what he's talking about, at the same time risk losing out on the ransom payment. Like I wrote in the book, it really serves only one purpose for this note to even exist. The fact they used real information shows that if you think it was in Hauptmann's hand it certainly wasn't his creation - which means he was obviously told what to write. Also, it certainly wasn't to buy time if one thinks CJ was Hauptmann because that money was already gone as designed by that "bait and switch" AND the fact that Hauptmann was glued to the Bronx. So it wasn't like he needed time to flee the State - or anywhere else. The "Boad Nellie" not had to have been written in just a few minutes. Doesn't seem like time for any deep thinking. If the note was written ahead of time Hauptmann would have been carrying it instead of taking about ten minutes to fetch it. It actually didn't take "deep thinking" for someone familiar with that information. But like Browning said: “not one in ten thousand” people would have the knowledge to write what was written in that note. After that consider the fishing "Boad Nelly" was there at that precise location at that exact time.
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Post by jack7 on Aug 1, 2018 0:09:16 GMT -5
Well, they looked and never found a Boad Nelly, and odds are the body of Charlie was laying in the woods a long ways away. Are you implying that Lindbergh screwed up here?
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Post by jack7 on Aug 1, 2018 1:03:56 GMT -5
You shouldn't really say "new book," you should say new desktop published ms. there's a hell of a lot of difference between publishing a book via a publisher and scooting one out on your puter.
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Post by Michael on Aug 1, 2018 7:15:46 GMT -5
Well, they looked and never found a Boad Nelly, and odds are the body of Charlie was laying in the woods a long ways away. Are you implying that Lindbergh screwed up here? Wrong Jack. It's why I wrote the book so that researchers like you would have the benefit of ALL of the information located within the Archives. They did find it. I can't post that entire section which would be the only way I could explain it. You shouldn't really say "new book," you should say new desktop published ms. there's a hell of a lot of difference between publishing a book via a publisher and scooting one out on your puter. No, I used a publisher. Most authors type it up on their computer then send it off to the publisher after which several things occur. No one uses a typewriter anymore. The big name publishers do more of course, but I certainly didn't print this up or have anything to do with distributing it. It's an advanced reader so only a limited amount will ever be sold. And guess what? I don't care. One either wants to know the real facts as contained within the source documentation or they want to be told what to believe by people who don't.
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Post by Wayne on Jan 2, 2020 15:52:37 GMT -5
Here's something interesting that Mbg just brought to my attention... It appears that until 1936 the first two (and only two) newspapers to publish ANY of the ransom notes after Charlie's body was found were the Star Tribune in Minneapolis, Minnesota and the Princeton Daily Clarion in Princeton, Indiana. The Star Tribune published Ransom Note #14 and the Boad Nelly note on May 25, 1932: The Princeton Daily Clarion in Princeton, Indiana published both of these notes on May 26, 1932: To the best of my knowledge (and I may be wrong), the next time that the ransom notes appeared in print was in January 1936 with Condon's Jafsie Tells All Liberty articles. My first question is why did 2 of the ransom notes appear in only 2 Midwest newspapers in May 1932 and NOT in every newspaper in America? Especially in NYC. And, second, after Charlie's body was found, why weren't ALL of the ransom notes published everywhere in the proactive hope that someone would recognize the author(s)? Why not publish them?
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Post by Wayne on Jan 2, 2020 17:34:20 GMT -5
Correction!
The ransom notes were published soon after BRH was arrested.
However, the big question remains. Why were only 2 ransom notes published in only 2 newspapers after Charlie's body was found up until the time BRH was arrested?
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Post by wolfman666 on Jan 4, 2020 9:45:12 GMT -5
I think on one of my original wanted posters its on it
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