Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 24, 2017 8:35:26 GMT -5
Thanks Michael, Baker would only have been about 19 at the time but perhaps there's enough physical development at that age. I've asked Mark for a photo and hopefully one is available.
Update: Mark replied that he doesn't have a Baker photo but he'll keep a look out. The Ancestry sites might be helpful.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 24, 2017 10:37:06 GMT -5
Amy, if you're going by the description of the man who exited the Schindelar Buick opposite 515 West 149th St., from Joyce Milton's book, I'm not sure how we reconcile the differences between it and the FBI Summary, but I have an idea how they originated. In the FBI Summary, which I realize is also not always accurate, Dorothy Stevens described the man as being about 30 years old, 5' 9" tall, of slender build, clean shaven, dark complexion, well dressed, wearing dark, soft hat. That sounds more like Richard Hauptmann heading home after a day of stock trading! I believe Joyce Milton got a bit caught up in her belief that Baker was involved and as a result took a few liberties within her descriptions of suspicious characters to connect him. Have you seen the pop-eyed man description in another source? I've also requested the NJSP report of the Dorothy Stevens interview from Mark.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 24, 2017 12:15:14 GMT -5
Amy, if you're going by the description of the man who exited the Schindelar Buick opposite 515 West 149th St., from Joyce Milton's book, I'm not sure how we reconcile the differences between it and the FBI Summary, but I have an idea how they originated. In the FBI Summary, which I realize is also not always accurate, Dorothy Stevens described the man as being about 30 years old, 5' 9" tall, of slender build, clean shaven, dark complexion, well dressed, wearing dark, soft hat. That sounds more like Richard Hauptmann heading home after a day of stock trading! I believe Joyce Milton got a bit caught up in her belief that Baker was involved and as a result took a few liberties within her descriptions of suspicious characters to connect him. Have you seen the pop-eyed man description in another source? I've also requested the NJSP report of the Dorothy Stevens interview from Mark. Can someone please fill me in on the basic facts of the "Schindler car"? I only recall this vaguely, but it seems like the car was reported stolen by its owner, Schindler, a couple of weeks before the purported kidnapping from somewhere in NJ, then was recovered near the upper Manhattan address on the J. J. Faulkner deposit slip on the day after the purported kidnapping. Were there also newspapers with reports about the kidnapping found in the stolen car?
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Post by Michael on Apr 24, 2017 19:37:44 GMT -5
Can someone please fill me in on the basic facts of the "Schindler car"? I only recall this vaguely, but it seems like the car was reported stolen by its owner, Schindler, a couple of weeks before the purported kidnapping from somewhere in NJ, then was recovered near the upper Manhattan address on the J. J. Faulkner deposit slip on the day after the purported kidnapping. Were there also newspapers with reports about the kidnapping found in the stolen car? Here are a couple of pages from the FBI Summary:
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Post by Michael on Apr 24, 2017 19:50:54 GMT -5
Update: Mark replied that he doesn't have a Baker photo but he'll keep a look out. The Ancestry sites might be helpful. Well I'm going to sound like a broken record but.... I am pretty sure Condon was shown a picture of Baker and he said it didn't look like "John." So far I haven't been able to find that report so take it for what's it worth. I've also requested the NJSP report of the Dorothy Stevens interview from Mark.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 25, 2017 8:58:19 GMT -5
I've never really considered Baker to be a suspect in the role of Cemetery John, only as one of two kidnappers and possibly the individual observed by Guinness near Hopewell. I think Baker was very fortunate not to have been seriously considered, other than in the role of CJ, for which he was cleared. I have no question about Hauptmann being Cemetery John. When CJ talked to Condon about the "gang of kidnappers," I believe he was actually making references to other individuals, Nosovitsky and Baker possibly included, who until that time had had some involvement. By March 12, 1932 however, Hauptmann was pretty much on his own, taking the risk and it's rewards or pitfalls.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 25, 2017 15:07:49 GMT -5
Can someone please fill me in on the basic facts of the "Schindler car"? I only recall this vaguely, but it seems like the car was reported stolen by its owner, Schindler, a couple of weeks before the purported kidnapping from somewhere in NJ, then was recovered near the upper Manhattan address on the J. J. Faulkner deposit slip on the day after the purported kidnapping. Were there also newspapers with reports about the kidnapping found in the stolen car? Here are a couple of pages from the FBI Summary: About the stolen Schindler car: (1) When did Schindler first report it stolen to (New Jersey ?) police? (2) From whose vehicle did the plates that appeared on the stolen car when found come?
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Post by Michael on Apr 26, 2017 18:15:25 GMT -5
I've never really considered Baker to be a suspect in the role of Cemetery John, only as one of two kidnappers and possibly the individual observed by Guinness near Hopewell. I don't even think it matters what Condon said anyway. We cannot trust anything that man said. (1) When did Schindler first report it stolen to (New Jersey ?) police? A "Stolen Car" alert came across the teletype system from the Lakewood Police at 12:30AM on Feb 2, 1932. (2) From whose vehicle did the plates that appeared on the stolen car when found come? Anne S. Rohm 764 Warburton Ave. Yonkers, NY Plates were stolen off of her car around the same time Schindler's car was stolen, however, she never reported them stolen.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 27, 2017 12:10:29 GMT -5
I don't think anyone who studies this case with more than a passing interest will disagree that the garrulous Condon had a supreme penchant for self-aggrandizement and the limelight. He was also very sincere in his desire to return the baby unharmed and was the only case principal to have spoken with CJ, doing so face-to-face on two occasions for about an hour and a half in total. While I don't believe we can trust everything he said, simply writing off everything he said as not being trustworthy, doesn't work either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 16:26:18 GMT -5
When CJ talked to Condon about the "gang of kidnappers," I believe he was actually making references to other individuals, Nosovitsky and Baker possibly included, who until that time had had some involvement. Joe, Duane Bacon was in Harts Island prison during 1917. Condon volunteered at Hart's Island prison. I believe he organized baseball teams among the inmates. Do you think it possible that Bacon and Condon could have crossed paths while Duane was an inmate there? According to CJ one of the gang knew Condon. Just a thought.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Apr 28, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -5
Amy, from the FBI Summary - Part 1, I know that Duane Baker served time Blackwell's Island in 1917 for grand larceny. (auto) Do you know if he also did time at Hart's Island? I believe there were work crews from the nearby surrounding prison's such as Riker's and Blackwell's assigned to the ongoing mass burials at Potter's Field on Hart's Island. It would be interesting to know how some of these work crews might have somehow interacted with each other.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 28, 2017 9:32:15 GMT -5
That's strange. She should have had an incentive to report the stolen plates to police, because she couldn't drive her car until she got replacement plates. But she never reported it. That suggests the possibilities that (1) she herself was part of the stolen car cabal or (2) she was warned she would be harmed if she reported the plates stolen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 10:43:48 GMT -5
Amy, from the FBI Summary - Part 1, I know that Duane Baker served time Blackwell's Island in 1917 for grand larceny. (auto) Do you know if he also did time at Hart's Island? I believe there were work crews from the nearby surrounding prison's such as Riker's and Blackwell's assigned to the ongoing mass burials at Potter's Field on Hart's Island. It would be interesting to know how some of these work crews might have somehow interacted with each other. Joe, Duane's WWI Registration card said Dept. of Corrections, Hart's Island on it. This was 1917. The history of that Island is fascinating and creepy too. In 1917 the Hart's Island prison was taking the overflow from city prisons into the Hart's Island prison, especially the younger inmates; probably to help with the burials. He could have been assigned to another prison but sent to Hart's Island to help. There was a ball field on this island for the inmates. There is still some bleacher material left from the benches that were brought over from Ebbets Field and used there on the island. Condon did organize sports on that island for the inmates.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 30, 2017 8:04:59 GMT -5
Condon organized youth baseball teams, mostly involving youngsters in the schools where he served as principal. But this is the first I've heard of him volunteering in prisons. If this is true, it's important as it increases the suspicions surrounding Condon in the LKC, because of friendly connections to convicted criminals. Was law enforcement investigating the Lindbergh case aware of Condon's Hart Island connection? I had never seen it mentioned before.
BTW, according to Noel Behn's "LIndbergh: The Crime," both Jocob Nosovitsky and Wally Stroh spent some prison time on Hart Island. We already know that Condon had a connection to both of these men through Condon's cousin, "Dinny" Doyle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 14:57:20 GMT -5
Condon organized youth baseball teams, mostly involving youngsters in the schools where he served as principal. But this is the first I've heard of him volunteering in prisons. There was also a boys reformatory on Hart's Island at this time. I will have to try to find the article again. It was at least 4 years ago when I encountered this and I don't know if I kept it because the time period of 1915 to 1917 was so far removed from 1932 that I didn't think it mattered. Talking about Duane Bacon made me recall it. Condon was involved with raising funds for rebuilding the Harts Island Chapel in 1932. If that article is still available to find, I will certainly post it.
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Post by scathma on May 18, 2017 11:06:16 GMT -5
According to the FBI Summary Report, Page 51, Oscar Bush is described as a "local trapper and former Deputy Sheriff."
Is this correct - was he in law enforcement at one time and if so with which agency?
He doesn't appear to have commanded the respect from his "peers" one would think would be afforded if he was a former LEO.
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Post by Michael on May 18, 2017 18:52:02 GMT -5
According to the FBI Summary Report, Page 51, Oscar Bush is described as a "local trapper and former Deputy Sheriff." I think their source for this came from a Reporter. I've never seen it in any LE document other than this one.
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Post by rebekah on Sept 7, 2017 8:53:51 GMT -5
Can someone please fill me in on the basic facts of the "Schindler car"? I only recall this vaguely, but it seems like the car was reported stolen by its owner, Schindler, a couple of weeks before the purported kidnapping from somewhere in NJ, then was recovered near the upper Manhattan address on the J. J. Faulkner deposit slip on the day after the purported kidnapping. Were there also newspapers with reports about the kidnapping found in the stolen car? Here are a couple of pages from the FBI Summary: Michael, I see no mention of the grey blanket in these reports.
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Post by Michael on Sept 7, 2017 19:13:21 GMT -5
Michael, I see no mention of the grey blanket in these reports.
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Post by rebekah on Sept 8, 2017 11:51:53 GMT -5
Michael, I see no mention of the grey blanket in these reports. Okay! "Additional information." Thank you.
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