But if there was a blow to the head wouldn't there be a bloody mess in the crib?
Not necessarily Could have been a closed head injury but I think to strike a skull with any force that would be a risk. A kidnapper would want the impression the baby was being treated well. Didn't even bother to take a blanket.
What about Lindbergh chocking the baby? Anne mentions it in a letter to her mother.
Does she? Which letter? This guy seemed to be pretty terrible to his son. I wonder if any of the other kids have ever come out with any stories of mistreatment.
Wendy, I agree. My husband has no interest in the LKC but I asked his opinion (he's an engineer) about the high altitude flight two months before the baby's birth. His comment was "It sounds like someone didn't want that baby!" Cruel to both mother and child!
Wayne said: "2) Interesting Waller observation. Waller spent 25 years writing Kidnap. Then 2 years later he wrote an article for True The Men’s Magazine entitled "New Evidence in the Lindbergh Case". "
Hi, Wayne. Is it possible that Waller began writing Kidnap in 1936? Also, do you know what "new evidence" he published in True Magazine?
The article was supposition. The point being Waller wrote as if there was no question about BRH being a lone kidnapper in his book. 2 years after the book was published he wrote this article. He didn't believe in footnoting either.
I completely agree with you and your conclusions about Anne. She does say that she was relatively close to the board in order to toss the pebbles and to see Charlie.
Well, please feel free to check my geometry, but I think you will find this interesting.
The distance from the ground to the bottom of the nursery window is 14’3” (that’s in the trial testimony, first witness). Charlie was 33”. So, let’s assume that Betty held Charlie’s feet so that they were resting on the window sill. That means Charlie’s head was a total of 204” off the ground (14’3” + 33” = 204”).
Anne was approximately 5’1”. Subtract 4” from the top of her head and her eyes were approximately 58” above the ground.
When you plug these numbers in (the height of the house + Charlie’s height compared to Anne’s height), the math shows that Anne had to be a little over 10 feet away from the house to see Charlie! Y
Hope this makes sense and please feel free to correct me if my math is off –
I does to me! In addition it was muddy and cold...strange thing to do at the end of a walk. If someone inside was to hand off the baby she would only need to walk down the front stairs rather than hand him out the window. Anne was just recovering from a cold herself and was pregnant. Doesn't seem prudent to me.
Thank you for sharing. I had not read that before and I have tremendous respect for Dr. Gardner. I think it's interesting that he discusses the Waller book, the first I read in my high school library re LKC. Just read an article by Waller written a few years after his book was published speculating about a member of the kidnap gang living in Europe! So much for case solved.
Actually now that I see different views it seems it is a wheel on the leg...the bar that appears to be attached is no doubt in the front of th crib and used to lower the side. This baby was so different from most 20 month olds I've known!
Have a question. Looking at pictures of the nursery and crib online I noticed a set of wheels behind the crib against the wall. Not on the legs but underneath the mattress. Just wondered if anyone has ideas.
kate1, your theory is certainly quite possible given all the stress Maura was under. i'm not overly familiar with the particulars of a fugue state, how long does it typically last? i'm thinking that even if she was under such a condition, something must have happened to her (died of exposure/fall or encountered someone dangerous) to prevent her from contacting her family eventually.
Fugue states are brief I think, hours to a few weeks. She certainly would be more vulnerable if she was experiencing any kind of amnesia. The stress is what me think of it.
Michael, where did the information come from that Charles, Jr. had been to the Institute a few days before the kidnapping ? Lewis reportedly said, " so what, if he was there?" So what??? Stuff like this isn't just pulled out of the air. There was mention of a letter from a 'reputable' source, but I can't find your original post. I've been thinking about this since I read it.
CAL couldn't remember where he'd been the afternoon of the kidnapping! I'd have gone over that day..weekend...endlessly in my mind.
Rebekah I think there are many instances where CAL didn't want involvement. He didn't want Parker or the FBI. He didn't want the serial numbers on the ransom money recorded. He wouldn't allow certain members of the press access to information he was distributing to others. He was going to wait to open the note from Cemetary John. It doesn't sound like he wanted any help at all!
Looking through the Protectory list of names from 1800-1900 no Faulkner listed. Seems to be an orphanage. Didn't a Faulkner pass a five dollar ransom note at sometime? The only other five dollar bill I remember was the one from the movie on November 30th.
I was actually thinking of what CAL told Curtis that he swore he'd never reveal and didn't. Sort of sounded like quid pro quo? Also I think his pranks were conferred on those he perceived as "weaker" or more as retaliation. I can't look at this crime without looking a at the character of those involved. Even the baby was "spoiled"! And actually, I do think he was a little weird.
This forum especially and several books have created "evidence" for more than one perpetrator of TLC. There is really no evidence of multiple kidnappers, and quite a bit more evidence of only one. For example the J.J. Faulkner exchange bank slip is presented as evidence of another person in possession of the ransom bills, and so the crime. Just as likely, perhaps more likely, it could have been Hauptmann with his German accent asking a stranger to fill out the slip for him because he couldn't write "American." So the super detectives have been chasing a never-will-be known individual at a random address all these years. That happens and is common in true crime - doesn't mean anyone is particularly stupid, but in most cases there should be a time to quit talking about something that has no substance.
Considering there were was a lookout at both cemetery meetings (including the dropped handkerchief which could still be DNA tested today) and two sets of footprints leaving the nursery, we have evidence of two kidnappers. Full stop.
None of this goes to the exculpating evidence of Hauptmann (inability to match footprints, Anna's testimony, JJ Faulkner, Condon's descriptions, Osborne's initial handwriting analysis, the lack of his fingerprints on the area the man who built the ladder would have had to touch, etc) - none of which proves his factual innocence in entirety, but of the possibility that he is innocent or that responsibility is to be spread between multiple individuals . Also, none of this speaks to the inability to raise that ladder alone while staying on the boardwalk or the sheer luck involved in a sole kidnapper arriving at a second-choice house he didn't plan for, luckily picking out the nursery window, the rusted lock on those shutters only, shimmying up the ladder to a room that might have no people in it or five (as no evidence indicates he stepped away from the boardwalk to get a glimpse inside), making a completely unrealistic entrance/exit to the house (if you're holding the most famous child in the world, why climb back over toys and chests when you could just move it out of the way?).
Logic must dictate and nobody, not one single person involved, believed one kidnapper was involved until facts changed so they could build a narrative around Hauptmann, rather than letting the facts go where they may.
I want to say that much of this "created evidence" was found only after individuals went to considerable, and in some instances, enormous, amounts of time and expense to uncover facts that have been suppressed or overlooked in this case. Kennedy hired a hand writing expert to compare Hauptmann's writing to the nursery notes. Michael's spent years digging into archives, etc.; you make it sound as if people arejust imagining scenarios and then throwing them out to see what sticks! And in some cases that's not a bad idea either. I'd like the Innocence's Project to look at Hauptmann's conviction.
It should be noted here because it's being used somewhat, that the lack of something is not really evidence. It creates an indication but it has no proof value.
For example, Hauptmann's fingerprints not being on the ladder does not mean that he had nothing to do with the ladder.
I know I make assumptions continually. Mostly try to use logic but I agree that lack of evidence isn't proof. I think it's important to look at the entirety of the individuals involved when we do make judgements. Just my thoughts and jeeze its early!
I always thought the Lindberghs' lived in their own wing of the Englewood estate. Is that right?
kate when I was there I went to the room where they were married and they told me there apt was upstairs but theres a class going on I woiuld have loved to go there. I saw two stairways I wanted to know which one did violet sharp run up or down they didn't know
Would love to experience some of those spots!
bobbyk: oldest and rarest with suggested prices: Crime and the Criminal by Dudley Shoenfeld $200), The Great Lindbergh Hullaabaloo by Laura Vitray ($200), Jasfie Tells All by John F. Condon ($250), True Story of Lindbergh Kidnapping by John Brant ($100),
Sept 5, 2014 19:28:29 GMT -5
bobbyk: The Lindberghs: A Distinguished Family by P.J. O'Brien ($60), and many others. If interested E:Mail at email@example.com
Sept 5, 2014 19:58:22 GMT -5
romeo12: I should sell mine
Sept 8, 2014 16:18:47 GMT -5
conkal49: Anyone know if Champ Atlee's book has been published yet? I haven't been able to find anything about it online.
Sept 9, 2014 12:08:11 GMT -5
nancy: Can anyone tell me about Patrick and Helen Lane? They lived close to the Lindbergh's. What about Don Guinness? Dose anyone have pics of the Guinness station or the Lane home? Email me firstname.lastname@example.org. thank you!
Jan 8, 2015 13:34:19 GMT -5
poppie66: News from the Smithsonian...http://www.fredericksburg.com/features/history/smithsonian-offers-close-look-at-spirit-of-st-louis-plane/article_95b30451-1ff0-50db-887c-d3e075061430.html
Jan 20, 2015 9:43:58 GMT -5
lurp173: I have been following this forum for over a year now and I have greatly enjoyed it the volume of information from truly dedicated individuals on this forum is really amazing and impressive I thought this might be a good time for me to contribute a posting
Mar 1, 2016 16:20:25 GMT -5
andy: This forum isn't as user friendly as it might be, so I'm sorry lurp173 for tagging onto to your post. I'll ask you to forward this to all interested parties. Flemington Borough is about to permit a developer to raze the Union Hotel! Flood them with emails!
May 26, 2016 20:12:42 GMT -5
andy: Additionally, the Freeholder board of Hunterdon County appears to be in favor of this. This building is an iconic structure. I helped save the jail behind the courthouse in the 1990s. Please protest!
May 26, 2016 20:17:06 GMT -5
andy: SAVE THE UNION HOTEL!
May 26, 2016 20:17:36 GMT -5
wolfman666: for what im reading the mayor of Flemington said he wants to move past the Lindbergh kidnapping. that means he don't care about history. why would he want to upgrade Flemington when its been built up for years outside of that street. keep it historic
Jan 30, 2017 10:06:11 GMT -5
stella7: I agree, they should keep the center of town historic. There's enough mall type shopping surrounding the town.
Feb 14, 2017 15:54:50 GMT -5
kevinroddy: When the kidnapper pushed off the ladder with his right foot, so that he could pivot into the nursery window to his left, why didn't the ladder fall to the ground - unless someone was holding the ladder at the bottom.
Jun 1, 2017 9:46:44 GMT -5
jane: i have a lot of stuff on this case, have a lot of letters that was sent to juror Robert A.Cravatt, also have the original letter sent to him where he was invited to the party and reception the night after the trials end,signed by john johnnidis
Jun 16, 2017 16:13:17 GMT -5
Michael: Jane: Sounds awesome... How did you wind up with this stuff? I would definitely like to hear more about them and your story!
Jun 19, 2017 5:18:24 GMT -5
truthseeker777: I have been trying for decades to get someone who has the clout to investigate, to come to Delaware and talk with me about possible leads to info regarding the Lindbergh baby. I am sincerely seeking help with this.I am not seeking fame or fortune-but truth
Aug 16, 2017 19:32:05 GMT -5
ron: truthseeker777 has anyone contacted you? Can you give us a hint about your lead?
Oct 10, 2017 1:17:25 GMT -5