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Post by Michael on Feb 14, 2014 22:54:36 GMT -5
The actual Ransom Poster which lists the Serial Numbers is both big and very fragile. Researcher Walt Chrush put together a Text File document to make it much easier and has given me permission to share it with our Board: LKC Ransom V2.txt (242.4 KB)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 18:23:33 GMT -5
This is an awesome piece of work by Mr. Chrush. He must have spent an incredible amount of time working on this. When looking at this extensive list of serial numbers it becomes easy to understand why so many ransom bills would have gone undetected! My thanks to Mr. Chrush and to you Michael for sharing this.
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Post by Michael on Feb 15, 2014 20:01:35 GMT -5
This is an awesome piece of work by Mr. Chrush. He must have spent an incredible amount of time working on this. When looking at this extensive list of serial numbers it becomes easy to understand why so many ransom bills would have gone undetected! My thanks to Mr. Chrush and to you Michael for sharing this. They realized how hard it was too which prompted them to come up with the "Key Card":
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Post by stella7 on Feb 15, 2014 22:43:02 GMT -5
At the bakery in Greenwich, CT, did the cashier have this list available? I can't see anyone processing a transaction and figuring out that it is a "Lindbergh Ransom" bill on the spot using this list.
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Post by Michael on Feb 16, 2014 9:54:08 GMT -5
At the bakery in Greenwich, CT, did the cashier have this list available? I can't see anyone processing a transaction and figuring out that it is a "Lindbergh Ransom" bill on the spot using this list. No. This whole process was more reactive then proactive. The original course of action was to provide the Banks with a book form of the Ransom Serials which was produced and distributed by the Treasury Department, and the thought was the motivation for the 25K reward would be enough for the Tellers. By July '32 they switched over from the Book to the single sheet - its what most people who have an actual copy possess today. Furthermore, this was also when the facsimiles of the handwriting on the note was being distributed to Banks with emphasis to compare to the handwriting on the safety deposit box holder accounts. I have evidence that even this Ransom Serial Number "list" wasn't given out to the Railway Agencies until August of '32. As Police saw a lack of interest they tried to develop new ways to both incentivize and make it easier. This is where the $2 reward for each bill came from as well as the Key Card idea.
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Post by stella7 on Feb 17, 2014 8:12:30 GMT -5
Thanks, I've always doubted this bakery incident actually happened. How far reaching was this list? Were banks in other states besides New York even looking for ransom money?
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Post by Michael on Feb 17, 2014 9:48:52 GMT -5
Thanks, I've always doubted this bakery incident actually happened. How far reaching was this list? Were banks in other states besides New York even looking for ransom money? It happened, but the NJSP Bulletin is the only account I trust: The newspaper accounts which say there was a copy "taped to the counter" just doesn't make any sense since the booklet contained 57 pages. I am not saying it isn't possible for someone to have gotten their hands on a copy, but it wasn't like these booklets had been distributed to these types of businesses because they weren't. For example, the International Business Machine Corporation (270 Broadway Street, NYC) got their hands on one in late April '32, and the General Service Manager, Walter Titus, wrote their Representative covering Trenton asking him to advise NJ the benefit of using the tail digits on the bills as an identifier. And so Mr. Titus may not get the credit, but it was his idea which eventually created the single sheet change in July, which then evolved into the Key Card. In my opinion, he should have gotten a piece of the reward but he was not only forgotten then but in history as well. According to Frank Wilson, 50,000 copies of the original "Booklet" were distributed to the Nation's Banks on April 6th. From this amount an effort was also made to distribute copies to Foreign Banks. In reality, it looks to me like (1) copy was given to each country in Europe hoping they would mass produce it then distribute to their Banks. For example, even Scotland Yard was complaining they didn't have a booklet in a cable to the FBI dated April 18, 1932. Wilson also says that someone from one of the Banks furnished a booklet to a Newark Newspaper in which it was promptly announced in an article the Banks were searching for the Ransom as it came in - which was then followed up by every newspaper in the country. I am sure they produced more booklets then distributed them in places hoping to get a "scoop" on a bill being discovered. Cost was also a factor concerning these "booklets" because Schwarzkopf wanted to furnish every Police Department with a copy but was finding it difficult due to the lack of funding. The new Ransom Serial Number "Sheet" seemed to help solve this problem as I mentioned earlier. This was that large newspaper style list (the Key Card came later). Now, due to the later date and the single sheet, we can see from this Memo written by Capt. Lamb who else were now to get (eventually) copies:
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Post by ssusa2010 on Feb 17, 2014 16:18:23 GMT -5
My great thanks to Mr. Chrush and to you Michael for this work you have done. I am very new to this site and no regrets due to the super communication you offer. You guy's make our lives much easier when it comes to research and how much valuable time we save looking for information like this list. Looking forward to sharing info back and forth...Great work and greatly appreciated!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 20:14:21 GMT -5
How long did LE continue to check for circulating ransom money? Did they follow up all reports of possible ransom money after Hauptmann's arrest and prosecution? I read about a report of ransom money turning up in a bank in Boston. There was a $20 and a $10 note used in the purchase of an airline ticket for American Airlines at the East Boston Airport in February 1935. Do you know if these bills were ever confirmed as ransom money?
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Post by Michael on Feb 18, 2014 21:35:19 GMT -5
How long did LE continue to check for circulating ransom money? Did they follow up all reports of possible ransom money after Hauptmann's arrest and prosecution? There is no easy answer to this question. I will attempt to give it to you in a nutshell... Upon Hauptmann's arrest, they were still fully investigating bills that were turning up. Once they began to formulate the Lone-Wolf position, the "war room" of Police tracking bills basically ceased to exist. The Police also specifically took notice of the Press raising the possibility that Confederates were spending money, this being due to the fact Hauptmann was behind bars as each new report of a finding came to their attention. It was at that point Police started to scale down their efforts significantly. For example, a bill discovered was being chalked up as a "floater," and efforts to trace it were negligible at best resulting in the conclusion that Hauptmann had been its origin without any proof whatsoever that this had been the case. In Lloyd's book, The Case That Never Dies, you'll see on page 364 that Schwarzkopf's answer to Hoover's telegram (March 1935) telling him to destroy the $5 they had accumulated and held for evidence in the Phila Reserve Bank. Lloyd concludes this was the end of the search. For me it came sooner then that based upon the circumstances surrounding the investigations (as I mention above) prior thereto. Of course once the Governor got involved he attempted to have those assisting him help him out with any new possibilities. Then came his letter to Schwarzkopf shortly after ordering him to continue to investigate on January 26th, 1936. Since the Djinni was already out of the bottle, trying to put him back in proved impossible. Additionally, to say that Schwarzkopf resisted is an understatement. With the full support and assistance of AG Wilentz, he did everything he could not to comply - while presenting proof he was. There would be weekly memos describing meetings where those present reviewed facts or read testimony with "no results." There would be lengthy investigations of insane people presented to the Governor as a way to mock him and his efforts - without actually saying it. To be blunt it was a pissing contest. Troopers were caught in the middle each having to choose sides. Most believed Schwarzkopf had the support where it counted and could weather the storm until the expiration of Hoffman's 3 year term. And so the Governor had very few Troopers he could trust... Even after Kimberling came in to replace Schwarzkopf. I read about a report of ransom money turning up in a bank in Boston. There was a $20 and a $10 note used in the purchase of an airline ticket for American Airlines at the East Boston Airport in February 1935. Do you know if these bills were ever confirmed as ransom money? Nothing was ever developed from this. I will have to go to the folders to refresh my memory as to the specifics, but I know that I was satisfied or I would have pursued it.
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2014 13:42:27 GMT -5
How long did LE continue to check for circulating ransom money? Did they follow up all reports of possible ransom money after Hauptmann's arrest and prosecution? I read about a report of ransom money turning up in a bank in Boston. There was a $20 and a $10 note used in the purchase of an airline ticket for American Airlines at the East Boston Airport in February 1935. Do you know if these bills were ever confirmed as ransom money? I've revisited the files on this subject. The newspaper reports seem clear, and have people saying, without a doubt, they discovered ransom money while the Police are denying it. There's nothing in the official reports, in fact I never found any report covering it at all. It's all newspaper reports. This troubles me a bit because usually the Police would read these news clips then rush out to investigate... So in re-evaluating the situation I'd have to say those reports existed at one time but aren't there now. My leanings are that they were not ransom notes or they'd have been referred to again somewhere in the documentation that does exist there - most especially Gov. Hoffman's investigations.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 17:48:06 GMT -5
Thanks Michael for all the checking you have done on this. So I guess this means that once Hauptmann was apprehended the flow of ransom notes ended except for a few floaters out there. Any other gold notes that were still in circulation were not ransom bills.
Is it possible that at some point it was decided that there would be no follow-up on reported gold certificates? I seem to recall something about Schwarzkopf saying that any additional bills thought to be ransom money should be destroyed. Afterall, if ransom money continued to turn up many months after Hauptmann's arrest, it could possibly indicate an accomplice might exist who is spending money. What would have happened to the lone-wolf, Hauptmann spent all the money foundation laid by the prosecution if money was turning up and being identified as ransom money? Deny and destroy would seem to be the necessary position to take in this regard.
The J.J. Faulkner deposit makes up most of the circulated ransom money that was identified. Without that deposit the known spent amount of ransom money would have been a shockingly small amount. I don't want to change the topic of this thread but I do want to ask you this question. With all the prosecution's explanations about how Hauptmann spent nearly 100% of the ransom money, how did they explain the JJ Faulkner deposit at the trial? Was Hauptmann's defense team aware of this deposit and that it was made in different handwriting? Sorry, that's two questions!
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2014 18:14:15 GMT -5
Thanks Michael for all the checking you have done on this. So I guess this means that once Hauptmann was apprehended the flow of ransom notes ended except for a few floaters out there. Any other gold notes that were still in circulation were not ransom bills. I wouldn't go that far - the "floater" explanation was the Official response to explain something that was damaging the Prosecution's theory. There were bills being passed. The Boston story is simply one that (I believe anyway) probably wasn't real.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 22:45:10 GMT -5
Are you referring to the Turchiarelli gold ransom bill passed in the Bronx?
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Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2014 8:52:57 GMT -5
Are you referring to the Turchiarelli gold ransom bill passed in the Bronx? That was one of them but there was more. I think I am having a hard time explaining "my" position as well as the overall situation as it occurred. Bare with me because I am not very good at times in doing so. What you had were Police running down bills turning up until such time it became harmful to the State's case. From that point on there was an ulterior motive not to pursue findings with 100% effort. And even those efforts waned as time went on. Remember that even before Hauptmann's arrest and with all the promises of reward, the Police felt there were times people had stopped looking. Now once Hauptmann is arrested and the Police proclaim they got their man.... what does that do for the search? The Federal Reserve was collecting these bills then we hear Schwarzkopf doesn't want them and later Wilentz told Hoover the same thing. It isn't until Gov. Hoffman steps in then stops this from happening. But imagine the damage that's already done. Here now your best ally, the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury are being told what they are doing isn't needed. Like I said earlier - the Djinni was already out of the bottle. As the Governor caught wind of discoveries he would attempt to have them investigated but people would say they couldn't remember, or that Police had interviewed them after it happened. When Hoffman found no report existed in the records, it would be impossible to find out what "Police" department or agency (if at all) had been the one's to "investigate." If he'd ask, none would say it had been them. Now certainly this information can be applied to the Boston "discoveries." Plural because there was supposed to have been more then one. And while I've made my personal position known its quite obvious, based on what I've written above, that I could be wrong. We will never truly know due to all of the circumstances and variables that existed after Hauptmann's arrest.
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Post by Michael on Mar 3, 2014 14:56:50 GMT -5
The J.J. Faulkner deposit makes up most of the circulated ransom money that was identified. Without that deposit the known spent amount of ransom money would have been a shockingly small amount. I don't want to change the topic of this thread but I do want to ask you this question. With all the prosecution's explanations about how Hauptmann spent nearly 100% of the ransom money, how did they explain the JJ Faulkner deposit at the trial? Was Hauptmann's defense team aware of this deposit and that it was made in different handwriting? Sorry, that's two questions! The Defense was aware of this deposit, and in fact, brought it out during the cross examination of Frank Wilson in Flemington starting on page 909. Fisher attempted to use the suicide of Faulkner off the Chrysler Building as a wedge into the State's case as a result. However, its obvious the deposit slip hadn't been turned over and Fisher was either relying on the newspaper accounts and/or the Investigations performed by the Defense PIs. The State used Agent Frank's testimony about Hauptmann's finances as a way to suggest this laundered money had been deposited into Hauptmann's account. Starting at p2773, Wilentz attempts to show Hauptmann lied to Police about knowing where a Federal Reserve Bank was after his arrest, or his fear of being "hooked up" if he had exchanged the "Fisch" money as a way to imply a connection here.
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Post by Mark Ferguson on Jan 25, 2016 20:05:21 GMT -5
I have a Lindbergh Ransom Monney poster for sale. It is excellent shape. Please let me know if any one is interested. markferguson26@hotmail.com.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Jan 29, 2016 6:32:29 GMT -5
As I recall most of the money was accounted for (check Sue's posts), but I don't remember if they stopped the $2 reward for ransom bills after Richard's arrest. The missing Lindbergh thousands was mostly fodder for treasure hunting magazines.
You'd think an accomplice, especially of the Hauptmann or Bernitella type of people would still spend some now and then and there were plenty of lists of serial numbers out there.
I know a woman who says she had some ransom bills. Not sure what happened to them. Will check.
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Post by Paula on Jun 22, 2017 16:32:45 GMT -5
I have a twenty with serial number G03717575A. Was issued 1928. Was told it was part of ransom money. Any idea?
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Post by Michael on Jun 22, 2017 18:34:29 GMT -5
I have a twenty with serial number G03717575A. Was issued 1928. Was told it was part of ransom money. Any idea? Paula, The Ransom $20 serial numbers are all preceded by an "A" or "B" or "*". Since your bill is preceded by a "G" then it's not a ransom note.
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geld
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Post by geld on Jul 6, 2017 11:51:09 GMT -5
I think it awful that no photos were taken of the RANSOM BOX and the ransom bills as they sat on the table when they were being package!!
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Post by julie0709 on Jul 12, 2017 18:00:49 GMT -5
I have a question about the bills that were being turned into banks and being missed. Did these bills flow out again from the banks and businesses back into circulation? Were some of the bills that were missed then counted twice when they were finally found? Thanks!
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Post by Michael on Jul 12, 2017 20:50:00 GMT -5
I have a question about the bills that were being turned into banks and being missed. Did these bills flow out again from the banks and businesses back into circulation? Were some of the bills that were missed then counted twice when they were finally found? Thanks! Without writing a "book" on this question I am going to give you the abbreviated version... Smaller banks typically "missed" ransom bills. Not always but much of the time and there are various reasons for this. If they happened to find one the police were called, they came to pick up the bill, and would investigate it. Those missed would (could) be "found" at the Federal Reserve Banks after these smaller banks made their transfers, redemptions, and/or deposits. If the money came from a smaller bank to the FR, it would come in a bundle that was strapped which allowed them to trace the bill back to the bank of origin as well as the date range. Once discovered at the FR, the police were called and they did the same as mentioned above. So no one bill was ever counted "twice" after it was discovered. The bigger the bill - the better chance of it being deposited at a bank. Once the gold notes were called in (two seperate EOs on this) all banks surrendered their gold notes to the Federal Reserve Banks. See above for the process/possibilities after this happened. The $5s were a different story. These were less likely to make it to a bank and even if they did, were more likely to be handed back out and recirculated if "missed" by a teller or counter.
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Post by kate1 on Jul 13, 2017 6:16:03 GMT -5
Was the box ever found?
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Post by Michael on Jul 14, 2017 6:11:49 GMT -5
The ransom box was never recovered by the police. Samuelsohn did build a replica for police so if you ever run across a picture of the box or one which includes police then it's probably this replica.
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Post by wolfman666 on Jul 14, 2017 9:12:46 GMT -5
I think kelvin keraga built a replica of the ransom box but not really sure have to ask him
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Post by wolfman666 on Jul 14, 2017 9:14:42 GMT -5
I have two ransom bankbooks if you have the serial number I will look it up
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Post by julie0709 on Jul 14, 2017 11:44:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the detail information, Michael! And thanks for your patience
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Post by SPG on Jan 8, 2020 6:58:28 GMT -5
I have a1928B $10 GC with the serial B61237282A...tried opening up the attachments, but no joy. Any idea?
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Post by Michael on Jan 9, 2020 13:34:06 GMT -5
I have a1928B $10 GC with the serial B61237282A...tried opening up the attachments, but no joy. Any idea? I saw that you signed up so you should be able to download the file. If you are still having problems just let me know.
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