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Post by Michael on Jul 16, 2013 16:28:01 GMT -5
Major Arthur T. Keaten Badge #188 New Jersey State Police Please use this thread for ANY information regarding "Buster" concerning the Lindbergh Kidnapping AND anything else you may know about as it relates to him.
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Post by Michael on Jul 16, 2013 17:12:55 GMT -5
According to Agent Sisk: "In conclusion, I might state that Lt. Keaten appears to know more about the Lindbergh case then anyone I have ever talked to. He is undoubtedly the "saturation" man for the New Jersey State Police and knows more about the intimate details and the various phases of the case then Col. Schwarzkopf." With this in mind, I felt it important to note what Lt. Keaten told Special Agent Sisk about Featherbed Lane in July of '34: It is Lieut. Keaten's opinion that the kidnap car was parked on the Wertsville-Hopewell Road. Although much publicity had been given Featherbed Lane by newspapers, the State Police do not believe that this Lane was used because of the fact that the child's thumb guard was found by nurse Betty Gow some weeks after the kidnapping almost at the exact point where the old abandoned road and the private lane interset, 100 ft. from the Hopewell-Wertsville Road, indicating, possibly, that the kidnappers walked through the estate, probably parking their car on the Hopewell-Wertsville Road.
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 16, 2013 21:53:03 GMT -5
Mkeaten—it’s great having “Buster’s” grandson on the board. If you are able to, can you share anything from your own in-family knowledge as to Buster’s view of the case? Did he think that justice was served? Did he think troubling questions were left unanswered? Did he think Hauptmann acted alone?
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 17, 2013 4:03:40 GMT -5
Thank you for this thread Michael. I can honestly say that Buster thought justice was certainly on this case. Not only did he not think that Hauptmann acted alone, he wasn't even entirely convinced that Hauptmann acted in it at all.
My grandfather abd I spent a lot ot time together when I was younger. Some things he told me when he was sober, a lot of things when he wasn't. But thanks to Michael, Mr. Falzini, Mr. Gardner and Ms. Reisch The things I remember were verified.
Thank you for the welcome Bookrefuge. I'm very happy and honored to be here, but as I believe I mebtioned earlier, I am hoping to get a picture of what Buster was like when he was younger. I never really cared about the Lindbergh case because I heard about it since I was young, and was sick of it. The same stories over and over and over. And honestly, I didn't know that this case was as controversal as it seems to be. This is what...80+ years old?
But I will be happy to share what I know, so don't be offended if you get the occasional "I don't know"! His stories mainly evolved around the people who really ticked him off.
Many thanks to all of you.
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 17, 2013 15:47:41 GMT -5
I know what you mean, mkeaten. Several books on the case just recently. Sometimes I think they will build a psychiatric hospital just for those of us who have tried to figure out the case until our minds snapped. You know, “the Skillman Home for Burned-Out LKC Theorists.” I’ll probably be there in a rocking chair, cutting out little paper dolls with a crazed look on my face, repeating over and over, hundreds of times, “Hauptman MUST have done it!….But no, no! He COULDN’T have done it!”
And a doctor will be there with a young intern explaining, “Yes, here we have another sad casualty of the Lindbergh kidnapping. Poor fellow! He’s making progress, though---last week we took him out of his straight jacket. NURSE! IT LOOKS LIKE HE NEEDS TO BE SEDATED AGAIN! And now, Doctor, we will proceed to the Betty Gow wing.”
“The Betty Gow wing?”
“Yes, we have so many admissions here, we have to sub-divide the hospital by theory. The next unit is devoted entirely to patients who went insane trying to prove that Betty Gow kidnapped the baby.”
Anyway, mkeaten, kidding aside, I realize you are tired of the case, but did Buster have his own theory about the kidnapping that he shared with you? I find it interesting that he thought it possible that Hauptmann might not have even been involved, given that Buster was one of Hauptmann’s arresting officers. Perhaps that’s why he wasn’t called to testify in Flemington?
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 17, 2013 17:06:49 GMT -5
Hey Book,
That was just TOO funny. But do you really let you have scissors, or any sharp instruments after several months of you doing the Thorazine Shuffle? since I won't be there, I will bring you all the news from the outside world. Elvis Presley kidnapped Lindberghs baby, because the beby was really a girl?
Buster did have his theory, but could never really do his job because Lindbergh was in the way. And yes, Buster was there at the arrest and pulled the marked money out of his wallet. During questioning, Hauptmann told where he was during the kidnapping, or at the ransom payoff. It was a great stroke of luck for the prosecutor that all the documents were accidently lost or destroyd, and the man who gave him the money blew the country and died.
I really don't want to get people riled up, so if it is okay with you, we can continue this conversation. And anything you wish to share here is up to you.
Thank you again for the post. I eally needed a great laugh!!!!!
My Best To You And Yours, Michael
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 17, 2013 17:55:46 GMT -5
Michael, the scissors they let me have in the psych ward are the little plastic ones with blunt ends that they give to kids in kindergarten. However, this isn’t really to protect me, it’s to protect the doctors, just in case I think they’re challenging my theory about the kidnapping and become violent.
Anyway you said:
Just to clarify the comments above—did Buster believe what Hauptmann said about where he was during the kidnapping and payoff? Which lost documents do you refer to? (Documents of what Hauptmann said during interrogation? Hauptmann’s financial records or work records?) Did Buster believe Fisch gave Hauptmann the money? Sorry if I’m dragging you into this—I realize questions often lead to more questions, which can be annoying.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 7:26:30 GMT -5
First of all, I need to fix one of my many typos, and I will try to proof read my posts more carefully. Buster thought that justice HAD NOT been served in the Lindbergh case. The investigators had work records, witness statements, that should have been enough not to grant extradition, let alone the fact that even more of the ransom money was being recovered after Hauptmann's arrest. The state chose to omit, lose, and/or destroy these. There were records proving that Hauptmann and Fisch and been in numerous ventures together, but since he left the country and died, they couldn't investigate it any further. But like I said before, Buster wasn't sure if Hauptmann was brought into it after the fact or not, only that he was sure that Hauptmann wasn't directly involved with the kidnap and murder of the baby.
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 19, 2013 19:42:40 GMT -5
Thanks, MK. It’s really fascinating to hear that someone so deeply involved on the police end of the case thought Hauptmann was NOT directly involved with the kidnapping and murder.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 21:06:38 GMT -5
Hey Book,
Buster was not the only one who thought that Hauptmann was not directly involved. Schwarzkopf also believed it was an "inside job". At first, Schwarzkopf had given Buster the go ahead to question the Lindbergh staff, even after Lindbergh had forbidden it.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 21:24:50 GMT -5
I have to admit that I was caught by surprise when I first saw this website and how much interest there still was in the Lindbergh case. You've got to figure that after 80 years or so, this just wasn't a cold case, but was frozen and shot off into space. And Book, you're not dragging me into anything. The people I've talked to have been so kind in helping me to do the things that I want to get done, I have no problems with sharing what I know about the Lindbergh case. If anybody dragged me into it, it was my grandfather! So if anyone has any questions, the least I can do is try to answer them. Best wishes to all, Michael D. Keaten
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 19, 2013 21:49:14 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing, mk!
So I guess the $64,000 question—or perhaps should I say $50,000—is:
In his conversations with you, did Buster say who he thought was responsible for the kidnapping and what their motive was? As you know, there are many theories, but it would be interesting to hear Buster’s personal opinion.
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kdwv8
Trooper II
Posts: 95
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Post by kdwv8 on Jul 19, 2013 21:59:09 GMT -5
mk, Was Buster and Schwarzkopf on the same page as far as who they thought was responsible for the kidnapping/murder?
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 22:12:05 GMT -5
Buster had no doubt that Lindbergh was behind the whole thing. But he also thought that the death of the baby was not intentional. Buster kept in touch with Lindbergh for years after the case was over to see if he would slip up and say something that would confirm his suspicions.
At first Buster didn't know why until the investigation got under way, and one of the detectives found out that Lindbergh was really into darwinism. So when the baby's health came into the light with the deformity of his toes, Buster and others thought the baby was an embarrassment to Lindbergh, and the world might think that he was not the perfect specimen of manhood.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 22:39:22 GMT -5
Buster and Schwarzkopf started out on the same page, then Schwarzkopf's loyalty's began to change. Buster and others began to refer to him as a "Chucky Boy". Michael (The administrator) had another name, but can't think of it off of the top of my head. But hopefully he will jump in and enlighten us. As the investigation progressed, Buster was really conducting two investigations. The one he was ordered to by Schwarzkopt, and the one he wanted to follow up on.
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kdwv8
Trooper II
Posts: 95
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Post by kdwv8 on Jul 19, 2013 22:39:44 GMT -5
mk, since Buster and possibly others thought Lindbergh was responsible, why didn't the NJSP go after him or was he just to powerful to mess with?
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 22:52:35 GMT -5
The police didn't go after Lindbergh, because Lindbergh was controlling the police. Lindbergh controlled every aspect of the inveatigation. Buster said that it was like the police was there just to be witnesses to what Lindbergh wanted them to see. Lindbergh kept bringing in people that the police objected to...objections went unnoticed....Lindbergh was going to pay the ransom without the police...police objected....went unnoticed. The whole investigation went that way.
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kdwv8
Trooper II
Posts: 95
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Post by kdwv8 on Jul 19, 2013 22:59:26 GMT -5
Great stuff,mk. Thanks
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Post by lightningjew on Jul 19, 2013 23:01:15 GMT -5
MK, what, if anything, was the main thing that made Buster suspect Lindbergh?
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 19, 2013 23:03:36 GMT -5
Thank you, mk! Your explanation is concise and to the point, and is a theory that others on this board favor. In this context (Lindbergh’s guilt), did Buster have an opinion as to:
(1) how the crime was physically carried out (this is a source of ENDLESS debate on this board);
(2) whether or not someone in the household besides Lindbergh was complicit;
(3) if there was any connection between Hauptmann and Lindbergh, or did he think Hauptmann was just a patsy who got unwittingly saddled with the cash. As you may know, wood experts (including on this board) have made a very powerful case that Hauptmann built the ladder. When this is coupled with his having ransom notes, it is very tough to say he wasn’t part of the crime. Yet he never plea-bargained by admitting working for someone else, and furthermore Lindbergh went after him in court—odd if Hauptmann was working for Lindbergh.
Finally, mk (and I apologize for all the questions; please take your time with them) I gather that some NJSP officers, such as Detective Bornmann, thought Hauptmann was indeed the man. From your grandfather’s remarks, about what percentage of LE do you think privately agreed with Buster? I know this is tough to estimate—I just mean roughly, ball-park.
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kdwv8
Trooper II
Posts: 95
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Post by kdwv8 on Jul 19, 2013 23:17:21 GMT -5
In regard to the baby's dead body which was identified as CAL,JR.....the autopsy description of the toes did not match the description the baby's doctor gave in his exam a week before the kidnapping. Did Buster believe the body was that of the Lindbergh baby or did he think it was some other baby?
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 23:18:51 GMT -5
The main things that made Schwarzkopf and Buster suspicious right away were the order in which things were carried out. The baby is announced missing and everybody goes to the nursery. Lindbergh grabs his gun and goes outside. He comes back in and calls his friend and attorney Breckenridge, then the Hopewell police. He then tells his butler to call the state police. All this time the ransom note was in plain sight and nobody touched it. That made no sense to Schwarzkopf or Buster. And then when the room was dusted for fingerprints, and none were found. Not even the fingerprints that were supposed to be there.
That was the initial reason for believing it was an inside job.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 23:40:18 GMT -5
Hey Book,
I can only answer a couple of your questions. Buster thought there would have to be at least two others maybe more within the household that would have had to help. Originally, when Lindbergh told the details of time and places where he was in the house, they didn't mesh with what actually happened. Then he said he got it wrong because of him being so upset.
Buster sat in the chair where Lindbergh said he was sitting, and had another trooper break a stick outside. From his chair, not only could he tell exactly where the noise came from, Lindbergh said he thought the noise came from the kitchen, but from the chair, you could see out the window.
As far as how it exactly happened, nobody knows for sure. I don't know if Lindbergh and Hauptmann knew each other (Told you to get ready for the "I don't know's) LOL! I hope this helped.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 19, 2013 23:50:29 GMT -5
Sorry Book, I missed one.
I don't know what percentage thought what, but the one thing was certain, the govenor knew that Hauptmann wasn't directly responsible for the kidnap or murder. But the state had to close this high-profile case or look like idiots. Testimony and evidence was manufactured. The state wouldn't call Buster as a witness because they couldn't control his testimony. My grandfather was a world class asshole, and the biggest prick that ever lived, but he was honest.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 20, 2013 0:22:16 GMT -5
KD,
Sorry I missed your question. Buster had no doubt that the baby was Lindbergh's child. Even though the autopsy was bungled, Lindbergh was in an all fire hurry to have the body cremated.
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 20, 2013 10:49:25 GMT -5
MK, many thanks for all the info. I never before heard the fascinating story about Buster sitting in the chair and testing the sound direction.
Incidentally, unless Lindbergh changed his story, I believe the correct sequence of phone calls was:
(1) the butler called Hopewell police; (2) Lindbergh called his attorney; (3) Lindbergh called NJSP, apparently on advice of his attorney.
Regarding eugenics as a motive. I started a thread (now on page 2 under General Discussion) called “The Case against a Eugenics-Motivated Murder.” It led to some very sharp exchanges between me and Michael, and it is certainly not my intent to revive those arguments on this current thread. However, if you browse that older thread, you will see quite a few arguments, both pro and con, on this angle.
We recently have had a new contributor on this board named Dave. He personally knew quite a few of the principals on both sides of the LKC (for example, he knew Anna Hauptmann as well as Detective Bornmann). Dave has been away in Australia, but I will be interested to hear his take on Buster’s views.
By the way, did Buster express an opinion about Bornmann? It was Bornmann who ripped that critical board out of Hauptmann’s attic, which always seemed a little fishy to me, yet our resident carpentry expert, Kevkon, is certain the wood from the ladder’s “Rail 16” matches Hauptmann’s attic and could not possibly have been faked. At the top of the thread, you mentioned that Buster’s “stories mainly evolved around the people who really ticked him off.” Curious if this might have included Bornmann, or if there was someone else in LE (you mentioned Schwarzkopf) that Buster thought might have been bungling or even deliberately fouling up the case.
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 20, 2013 14:10:27 GMT -5
Sorry if the phone calls seem out of order, but you must remember this was 40 years after the case. I don't remember him mentioning Bornmann, but when it came to be known that Hauptmann was a carpenter, Buster was like...No... A carpenter didn't build this ladder.... not even a bad carpenter.
The main people who were really screwing with the case were Lindbergh and Breckenridge. Lindbergh was basically telling the police what to do, where to go.... and Breckenridge kept bringing in the most inane people into the case. Schwarzkopf's battle with Hoover pissed Buster off, cause the backlash would fall on him.
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Post by Michael on Jul 20, 2013 18:11:27 GMT -5
Sorry if the phone calls seem out of order, but you must remember this was 40 years after the case. This is important to remember. As much as I research this case, I have to (more often then I like) to go to the files to refresh my memory or at least check it. And so we have to consider Buster is telling Michael this years later - then Michael is recalling these recollections himself. I have read material that I just don't believe many before me ever did, or if they did, had no idea what it meant or who was who. Since Michael started to share these stories his Grandfather told him they all fall in line with this other material. I had a feeling Buster felt like Walsh did, but I never had anything to back that feeling up until now. The wood breaking "test" for example, I have never heard of, but when you consider what they were doing in those early days it makes perfect sense. Michael is remembering Lindbergh was in the Library when he heard the noise, but while this disagrees with the exact history as we know it - that makes sense too considering the time lapse and the mere fact we just don't know everything. Either way its damn important. And calling it "Darwinism" for example, proves to me this was discussed. It's not a word I have heard as it relates to the case but it is one, I certainly believe, someone not familiar with the term Eugenics would use instead. Michael says Buster told him the baby had a vitamin deficiency and his toes weren't right. That doesn't sound like much but it seems important those two things alone had the Police considering what we have been. Perhaps they believed, working with Lindbergh as they did, those things were all that was necessary for that "kidnapping" to occur - that his beliefs in perfection were actually far more strict then even we have been considering? They would know since they were working for him. We are so lucky Michael has decided to share his memories with us and I can't thank him enough!
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Post by mkeaten on Jul 20, 2013 19:05:20 GMT -5
No Michael. I can't thank you enough for all you have done for me. I got an E-mail from Ms. Raisch telling me that my grandmother (Lydia) remembers that after the baby's body was found, Buster brought home the baby's clothes and spread them out on the kitchen table and just stared at them for hours. He never really spoke to her about his work, but he told her that the body had to have been placed there. I don't remember Lydia ever speaking about the case in all the time I knew her, but Ms. Raisch has notes from her interviews with Lydia she will share when she is able.
Also in the E-mail, Ms. Raisch states that she helped Lydia compose a letter to Schwarzkopf trying to reconnect with them since Schwarzkopf and my father were childhood friends, which confirms what Buster had said about the falling out that he had with Schwarzkopf at the end of the Lindbergh case.
I will be happy to keep you informed of what Ms. Raisch relates to me. The other interesting she wrote was that she had become friends with Mrs. Hauptmann. So I'm just kinda curious what fruit will grow from Ms. Raisch's communication. Thanks again for introducing me to her.
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Post by bookrefuge on Jul 21, 2013 8:14:45 GMT -5
MK, earlier in the thread, you said of Lindbergh:
I was just wondering. Did they refer to Anne Morrow Lindbergh as:
“Bride of Chucky Boy”?
I thought Michael our moderator might enjoy that one.
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