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Post by Michael on May 25, 2013 7:56:26 GMT -5
What did she/didn't she know? Attachments:
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Post by Michael on May 25, 2013 8:03:50 GMT -5
On June 11, 1932 Schwarzkopf released in his press announcement the following: On the can containing the poison was a label indicationg that the contents were cyanide chloride. At the bottom of the label there was printed "Sold by Eimer and Amend, "New York." This is a wholesale drug house and investigators are there this morning starting on a trace of the poison. Here is the Report they submitted: Attachments:
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Post by Michael on Oct 15, 2018 7:51:53 GMT -5
Since the information contained in the "Shot Box" can be missed, I wanted to re-post what Tony said in the thread here (Oct 13, 2018 at 3:48am): tony: Due to a relative passing away recently (I didn't know of them), I have discovered that my great aunt violet Sharp tragically took her own life, due to the police's investigations. I haven't read very much about the case, but I feel in my heart, that she (was) Murdered as a cover up... Tony: lindberghkidnap.proboards.com/user/526
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 11:39:15 GMT -5
On June 11, 1932 Schwarzkopf released in his press announcement the following: On the can containing the poison was a label indicationg that the contents were cyanide chloride. At the bottom of the label there was printed "Sold by Eimer and Amend, "New York." This is a wholesale drug house and investigators are there this morning starting on a trace of the poison. So, Michael, did Mr. Edward B. Amend come and look at the can of cyanide? Did Mr. Amend trace that can? Is there a follow up report with any of these details? I have always thought it odd that Violet would have such an item in her possession (as owner). No doubt the Morrow family had silver polish and Violet as a house servant might have been responsible for maintaining the silver if it was part of her job description. Silver polish would have been among the items the Morrow family would supply. Maybe Violet had numerous pieces of silver jewelry she wore and would need to clean them from time to time? Otherwise, why own such an item.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 11:51:43 GMT -5
Since the information contained in the "Shot Box" can be missed, I wanted to re-post what Tony said in the thread here (Oct 13, 2018 at 3:48am): tony: Due to a relative passing away recently (I didn't know of them), I have discovered that my great aunt violet Sharp tragically took her own life, due to the police's investigations. I haven't read very much about the case, but I feel in my heart, that she (was) Murdered as a cover up... I certainly appreciate Tony's position. I do admit to being suspicious about what happened to Violet Sharp. I am not at all certain that she purposely killed herself. Why would you go downstairs if your intent upon taking the cyanide was to die? She just would have laid on her bed to pass away. Instead she ran downstairs. There should have been an inquest but being it is the Morrow family, normal procedures did not seem to apply.
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Post by Michael on Oct 16, 2018 7:30:12 GMT -5
So, Michael, did Mr. Edward B. Amend come and look at the can of cyanide? Did Mr. Amend trace that can? Is there a follow up report with any of these details? I made a quick look-see through the files and found this: imgur.com/tFIX3hSI am not sure if there is a follow up but I'm not finding one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 8:05:03 GMT -5
Thanks for checking this for me. It seems that if something pointed in the direction of the Lindberghs/Morrows, follow-up reporting either doesn't happen or disappears. Just something else that leaves us hanging!
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Post by Michael on Oct 16, 2018 8:49:16 GMT -5
Thanks for checking this for me. It seems that if something pointed in the direction of the Lindberghs/Morrows, follow-up reporting either doesn't happen or disappears. Just something else that leaves us hanging! It could be there's more and I am missing something OR didn't make a copy of a report that is at the NJSP Archives. It could be you find something that I am "missing."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 10:37:46 GMT -5
Thanks for checking this for me. It seems that if something pointed in the direction of the Lindberghs/Morrows, follow-up reporting either doesn't happen or disappears. Just something else that leaves us hanging! It could be there's more and I am missing something OR didn't make a copy of a report that is at the NJSP Archives. It could be you find something that I am "missing."
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Post by Wayne on Oct 16, 2018 18:02:25 GMT -5
Hi All, Two questions: 1) I've read two versions of where the can of silver polish containing cyanide chloride was stored before Violet Sharp died. One version has the can in the kitchen pantry and the other has the can in Violet's closet. Can anyone set me straight on this (with documentation)? 2) By the time Violet was pronounced dead, there were quite a few policemen at Englewood. Among them were Keaten, Walsh, Cpl. Horn, and Sgt. Moffett. With all of this police presence (and there was more), anyone want to guess who actually discovered the can of silver polish? Lindbergh himself. Seriously? Attachment Deleted
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Post by hurtelable on Oct 16, 2018 19:09:43 GMT -5
Hi All, Two questions: 1) I've read two versions of where the can of silver polish containing cyanide chloride was stored before Violet Sharp died. One version has the can in the kitchen pantry and the other has the can in Violet's closet. Can anyone set me straight on this (with documentation)? 2) By the time Violet was pronounced dead, there were quite a few policemen at Englewood. Among them were Keaten, Walsh, Cpl. Horn, and Sgt. Moffett. With all of this police presence (and there was more), anyone want to guess who actually discovered the can of silver polish? Lindbergh himself. Seriously? The chemical that Violet Sharp ingested was likely potassium cyanide, NOT "potassium chloride cyanide" (as indicated in the police report posted) and NOT "cyanide chloride" as indicted above. Both potassium cyanide and sodium cyanide were common ingredients in silver, gold and jewelry polishing/cleaning products c.1930. There were a number of accidental deaths during that time frame attributed to victims ingesting cyanide from foods eaten with cyanide-tainted silverware. Fortunately, these accidental cyanide poisonings with tainted silverware are no longer a problem in developed countries, it would seem, since safer substances have substituted as metal polishing/cleaning agents. BTW, does anyone here know if there was an autopsy done on Ms. Sharp, and if so, has anyone ever seen an autopsy report?
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Post by Wayne on Oct 16, 2018 19:44:51 GMT -5
The chemical that Violet Sharp ingested was likely potassium cyanide, NOT "potassium chloride cyanide" (as indicated in the police report posted) and NOT "cyanide chloride" as indicted above. Hi Hurt, Interesting. Do you have any documentation on that? If you look at Michael's second post of this thread you'll see this-- I mean, aren't the cops looking at the label on the can?
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Post by feathers on Oct 17, 2018 11:29:08 GMT -5
This is not the best evidence, but it may ease the confusion (if not add to it). Here is a page from a memo written by Shepherd, the Acting British Consul, in his report on Violet Sharpe's death.
As you can see, he states that VS went to her room then to the pantry.
Also, he indicates that there was an autopsy and it revealed potassium chloride.
Attachment Deleted
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Post by Wayne on Oct 17, 2018 12:04:30 GMT -5
Thanks Feathers! I've read that and I'm still not clear on the timeline. The glass with silver polish residue was definitely found in Violet's room (by Lindbergh among all the cops there). The British Consul's account doesn't completely mesh with the facts. Also, Hurt, here is a little info on who did Violet's autopsy. I'll see if I can find a copy --
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 17:51:07 GMT -5
A copy of the official autopsy for Violet Sharp would be extremely helpful. No doubt this would have been shared with the NJSP. I do have a small comment made by Col. H. Norman Schwarzkopf about Violet's autopsy. Nothing very revealing but I thought I would share it. From The New Hampshire Telegraph, June 11, 1932:
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Post by Wayne on Oct 17, 2018 21:27:20 GMT -5
Amy,
You are the newspaper Wizard! Most impressive find.
And I did check with Mark Falzini today. The NJSP does not have Violet's autopsy report, only her death certificate.
Am I the only one who is stunned that among all the police presence there that morning that it was Lindbergh himself who discovered the can of silver polish in Violet's room?
By the way, the fact that Lindbergh was there and did discover the can is in the June 10th NJSP statement signed by Keaten, Walsh, Moffat, and Horn.
According to Fisher (The Lindbergh Case, p. 152), Lindbergh was not at Englewood that day.
Did Fisher read any NJSP report or research anything?
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Post by Michael on Oct 18, 2018 7:28:37 GMT -5
Amy, You are the newspaper Wizard! Most impressive find. And I did check with Mark Falzini today. The NJSP does not have Violet's autopsy report, only her death certificate. Am I the only one who is stunned that among all the police presence there that morning that it was Lindbergh himself who discovered the can of silver polish in Violet's room? By the way, the fact that Lindbergh was there and did discover the can is in the June 10th NJSP statement signed by Keaten, Walsh, Moffat, and Horn. According to Fisher ( The Lindbergh Case, p. 152), Lindbergh was not at Englewood that day. Did Fisher read any NJSP report or research anything? What Amy's post exemplifies is there are more sources outside of the Reports. This comes from a "Press Bulletin" which was issued to the Reporters. They are important because later on some of what was in them upsets things testified to in the Hauptmann Trial. So if a researcher solely relies on what the court testimony was for their positions they are making a serious mistake. Here is the Death Certificate: imgur.com/tv2QXjmOn Fisher... It simply boils down to the amount of time he spent at the NJSP Archives. I think its hard to imagine unless you've been there. Wayne, Amy, Scathma, Gary, Rab, etc. know because they have. It's why is so damn ridiculous for anyone who hasn't been there to present themselves to the Public as "Experts." They are the same people who will comment on a report they've never laid eyes on or claim something "is not true" when they actually have no idea. How could they? They go to their Bible: Fisher's Book. Now think about the fact that Fisher DID go there and still made all of these mistakes. Now consider certain people telling other people what to believe, as if they are an Authority on it, who have been to the Archives once to say "hi" to Mark - or have never been there at all. Sounds crazy but these pseudo-experts are all over the place. What's their Kryptonite? A simple question. Ask how much research they've done at the NJSP Archives. If they ignore the question or say it isn't necessary you just exposed a fraud.
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Post by wolfman666 on Oct 18, 2018 9:01:12 GMT -5
the archives wernt as organized as it is today when jim was there. plus a lot of people make a error on where sharp was buried they always said she was buried with the morrows but she is across the road in a unmark grave nowhere near the morrows in Englewood. I was there at one time
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 18:10:37 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is stunned that among all the police presence there that morning that it was Lindbergh himself who discovered the can of silver polish in Violet's room? By the way, the fact that Lindbergh was there and did discover the can is in the June 10th NJSP statement signed by Keaten, Walsh, Moffat, and Horn. Thanks for posting that report, Wayne. How nuts is it that Lindbergh does make those discoveries instead of the police? It reminds me about how the discoveries were made at the Hopewell house the night of March 1, 1932. Lindbergh knew where to find stuff that night too. Yep! Lindbergh is a real stunner, alright!
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truthseeker777
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Trying again after almost three years. Can someone guide me?
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Post by truthseeker777 on Feb 16, 2019 22:45:26 GMT -5
She either killed herself out of guilt for the secret (kept from Anne Lindbergh) about the baby's "alleged" kidnapping or she was forced into suicide by Charles.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 10:33:17 GMT -5
She either killed herself out of guilt for the secret (kept from Anne Lindbergh) about the baby's "alleged" kidnapping or she was forced into suicide by Charles. Rookie here again. CAL; "Here, drink this quickly." He almost killed a fellow flyer in his younger days with this 'joke' by giving him kerosene to drink. With the flyer suffering in the hospital, CAL thought it funny and never apologized. It's not a stretch for Violet to trust CAL to give her a shot of something to calm her nerves before more intense questioning. Someone does not wink with a sly smile at people in the room shortly before suicide I wouldn't think.If CAL's prints were on the bottle that would certainly leave something to be explained. I know this theory has been around a long time and many have pointed the finger at CAL. Any other person with this proven history would have immediately been suspect I would think
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Post by scathma on Feb 13, 2020 12:07:29 GMT -5
If memory serves, CAL was first to her body (*surprise*) so depending how long her had alone with her any prints on the bottle could have been wiped away...
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ziki
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Post by ziki on Feb 14, 2020 4:12:23 GMT -5
Just an idea: was it determined the poison (cyanide) Violet ingested came definitely from the bottle found in her room? Or that Violet herself brought this bottle to her room?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 14, 2020 9:03:10 GMT -5
If memory serves, CAL was first to her body (*surprise*) so depending how long her had alone with her any prints on the bottle could have been wiped away... Wouldn't the first person at the scene have been Emily Kempairien the chambermaid, who witnessed Violet stagger down the stairs from the second floor and collapse in front of her?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 11:18:46 GMT -5
Just an idea: was it determined the poison (cyanide) Violet ingested came definitely from the bottle found in her room? Or that Violet herself brought this bottle to her room? Great questions! I have been wondered if the container was empty at the time it was found in Violet's room. I think this important because silver polish back in the 1920s and 1930s was often times in a powder form that could be mixed with a little water to make a paste to polish silver with. The report about the search of Violet's room mentions crystals (not powder) being in the sink and still present in the cup Violet used, if I am remembering the report correctly. This sounds more like potassium cyanide which was mentioned in an earlier post in this thread by Hurtelable.
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Post by Michael on Feb 15, 2020 10:32:45 GMT -5
Just an idea: was it determined the poison (cyanide) Violet ingested came definitely from the bottle found in her room? Or that Violet herself brought this bottle to her room? I would say it was simply accepted that it was. She definitely died from poisoning so once they went to the room and discovered this I believe it was simply a foregone conclusion. They never conducted any type of investigation into anything other than a suicide so if someone staged it they definitely got away with it. Here is something that might interest you: ibb.co/z4L8TLK
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