|
Post by sue75 on Feb 24, 2013 14:46:23 GMT -5
If Condon was indeed a pedophile, why was he picked to be the go-between in the Lindbergh abduction case?
He should have had NOTHING to do with children.
Let's stop talking pablum and get to the obvious problems with this case.
One being:
Why was anyone listening to Condon at all?
A child molester's testimony in Flemington, New Jersey in 1935 helped send a man to the electric chair?
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2013 16:07:45 GMT -5
I tend to believe he did something inappropriate. It's not like today where sometimes kids will say something. Back then it was unheard of.
|
|
|
Post by sue75 on Feb 26, 2013 18:09:19 GMT -5
I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it's on page 318 (hardcover) where Noel Behn states that Condon was conducting a kindergarten class when this incident occurred. Dennis Doyle's mother said it was some girl looking for publicity.
A kindergarten child looking for publicity? Did this child come forward on his or her own?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 11:25:41 GMT -5
Hey Sue,
I checked in my Noel Behn book on page 318 and it does mention about Jasie and rumors of molesting young girls. Didn't say what age these girls were. It didn't give a time frame for the alleged incidents either. It does say that there were newspaper articles about it though.
So I went to my Condon file and checked a summation report about one of Condon's scrapbooks. It mentions that Dr. Condon was a teacher for 20 years at the College of New Rochelle, New Rochelle N.Y. This was a Catholic College for girls. He taught there from 1911 through 1932! Perhaps during his tenure there the allegations of molesting girls may have occured.
Maybe you could do some of your great research of Newspaper articles and find some of the stories written about these incidents. I know that 20 years is a big time period to look at. Perhaps you could come up with some parameters for your search that would narrow down the amount of years you will need to review.
Perhaps Michael could even provide a report or police statement that would help with your search.
I have always found Condon to be a very perplexing character and have never been as confident of Condon's "shiny new penny" image as others seem to be.
|
|
|
Post by sue75 on Feb 27, 2013 13:04:39 GMT -5
Well, Amy, thanks for the compliment!
My problem here is that I have freely posted my research, but it's on the Internet and it's for the grabbing!
This case should be about seeking justice and not about researcheRs who want to make money on a book or some other publication, but unfortunately I think people find things and WITHHOLD AND WITHOLD AND WITHOLD
|
|
|
Post by sue75 on Feb 27, 2013 13:12:47 GMT -5
and wait for that publication date. Holy Christmas! What I could have published if I WITHELD AND WITHHELD AND WITHELD!
Is it about people's egos instead of the tragedy of a little boy dying in 1932?
Is it about massaging people's egos (and massaging you know what else?)
It's for the grabbling and people DO grab!
Just because someone has a REPUTATION for being a writer or a researcher doesn't mean that person is the best person for the job!
Well, I think they WITHOLD and then just post the pablum. They withhold the good stuff and post the pablum.
Do you appreciate my honesty or are you thinking, "Sue, you're note being nice."?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 16:04:20 GMT -5
I am fine with your honesty Sue. I have been posting on this board for not quite a year and I have certainly grown in my knowledge about this case through people like you and others who generously share their research on this blog. I am not writing a book or anything. I come here because I think there is more to this crime than what has been the accepted version of events surrounding the kidnapping of Charlie. You have put years of research into this case. Have you ever considered putting a book together?
I wanted to share with you that there is a place on this board that has the information on Condon's possible misconduct with a minor. It is in the General Discussion section on page 5. Look for the thread labeled Al Reich. It is post#26. Michael posted a section of Condon's statement dated 06-02-1932 and it addresses what you are asking about.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2013 17:39:49 GMT -5
Sue,
I am not sure if this is being directed at me or not. I hope not. I've been sharing tons since I got into this thing - just as you have. But I think since I started getting serious, back in 2000, I placed a goal for myself to get pen to paper once I was ready. I've averaged about 200 hours a year at Archives since that time. I am in the red and don't believe I will ever make a penny. That isn't what I am up to. I've given help to anyone who has asked me. I can't even begin to show how much time I've invested on helping others. Ellis Parker's Pardon for example, and he didn't even get pardoned. But I would have it no other way. Anyone who reads it will absolutely know he should have been. I've assisted several other Authors with specific areas of research too. And to be sure others, including you, have helped me. I am certainly not looking for any pats on the back but just to understand what it is I am trying to do.
It is about the truth. But I have to be comfortable by presenting it in the best way possible. If I do something half-assed I will be haunted knowing it could have been better. If it comes out and it sux then I will also know I did my best so nothing more could have been done on my end.
Amy,
Feel free to upload any document that's been posted and relocate it to an appropriate thread. We have stuff all over the place that sometimes I can't even find. Any Member owns whatever document that is posted.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2013 21:34:59 GMT -5
Here's something else on the matter: Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2013 21:36:04 GMT -5
Wrong one. Rather then take it down I will just post the right one here: Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by john on Mar 1, 2013 13:45:12 GMT -5
This is disturbing news, Michael, as regards Condon's character. His worshiping of CAL; his own (melodramatic as usual) description of his praying for the child's safe return next to the crib, feels different now, and it raises issues regarding Condon and children; and, needless to say, puts the old man in a bad light and makes me wonder what he was really up to.
None of this necessarily points to Condon being in on or in league with the kidnappers, however it does raise questions as to his character, his moral fiber, and what really motivated him to get involved with the kidnappers in the first place. One can't help but raise mental health issues. We know that CAL liked to "play games" with people. Now I have to wonder if Condon was similar in this regard, and if so, whether anything he told the police,--including his accounts of his dealings with Cemetery John--can be trusted.
|
|
|
Post by deedee1963 on Jun 27, 2014 10:14:49 GMT -5
This is disturbing news, Michael, as regards Condon's character. His worshiping of CAL; his own (melodramatic as usual) description of his praying for the child's safe return next to the crib, feels different now, and it raises issues regarding Condon and children; and, needless to say, puts the old man in a bad light and makes me wonder what he was really up to. None of this necessarily points to Condon being in on or in league with the kidnappers, however it does raise questions as to his character, his moral fiber, and what really motivated him to get involved with the kidnappers in the first place. One can't help but raise mental health issues. We know that CAL liked to "play games" with people. Now I have to wonder if Condon was similar in this regard, and if so, whether anything he told the police,--including his accounts of his dealings with Cemetery John--can be trusted. Years ago when newspaper archive.com was still fairly new I was in my "find dirt on Condon" phase. This man has creeped me out from the get go. Anyway I have it stored away on 20 years worth of hard drives somewhere so take me a while to find it again. And I cannot recall if Condon himself later mentioned it on one of his self serving writings. But the pervy doctor spoke about going to someone's apts where he observed heads (yes heads) that were pickled in jars. Now I'm trying to remember the exact details and its hazy but in fairly sure this article was from well before the LKC. I was wondering if anyone else was familiar with this story about Condon? I may just have to subscribe to newspaper archives. Com again to find it as reading this thread has made old Jafsie get under my skin again. Frankly I would love to see a profiler do a profile of John F Condon. This pickled head story was beyond the pale even for Condon. If what Condon claimed in this story was true it was so bizarre. If its something he dreamed up its even more disturbing as it would speak more to what kind of dark thoughts this man really had. And decades before television no less. Anyway, I wanted to know if any of you who research Condon are familiar with this? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by romeo12 on Jun 27, 2014 12:38:27 GMT -5
in the fbi files its mentioned that he had a issue with a small child. I have found nothing else to prove it, but at that time it was probably swept under the rug
|
|
|
Post by deedee1963 on Jun 27, 2014 13:01:44 GMT -5
in the fbi files its mentioned that he had a issue with a small child. I have found nothing else to prove it, but at that time it was probably swept under the rug Thanks, Steve. I'm so glad to see you still researching ! You always found such good info. Dena
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 15:29:03 GMT -5
Hello deedee1963. Nice to have you posting here!
I have always found Condon to be a very disturbing character. I think he hid a very troubled man behind the public persona he projected in his community. You mention doing a lot of news article research on Condon. I was wondering if you ever came upon any articles on the numerous close to drowning victims Condon was supposed to have saved over about an eight year period. It seems he was always in the "right place at the right time" to save a young male from drowning. He must have liked hanging around bodies of water, especially in parks enabling him to save these boys. I only have very basic details surrounding these rescues. If you happen to have any details you can share, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by deedee1963 on Jun 27, 2014 16:32:47 GMT -5
Hello deedee1963. Nice to have you posting here! I have always found Condon to be a very disturbing character. I think he hid a very troubled man behind the public persona he projected in his community. You mention doing a lot of news article research on Condon. I was wondering if you ever came upon any articles on the numerous close to drowning victims Condon was supposed to have saved over about an eight year period. It seems he was always in the "right place at the right time" to save a young male from drowning. He must have liked hanging around bodies of water, especially in parks enabling him to save these boys. I only have very basic details surrounding these rescues. If you happen to have any details you can share, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Thabk you, Amy. I'm enjoying catching up. So much new info! I did look for evidence of his "saving" so many young boys. I couldn't find it. It seems like I did find one article on which he did save ONE young boy & he might have received a medal of some sort for it but I think it was only one. He did enjoy hanging out with the youngsters didn't he? I do know that even if a pedophile prefers one sex over another they will molest whatever child is available as long as the child has not yet reached puberty. So he may have molested a little girl while teaching at an all girls school. But I believe he preferred little boys. I find him so deeply disturbing. I was just reading about X3 and frankly, makes me really wonder now if the unnamed serial killer was Cerardi & that he did know Condon. Killers often work in tandem with the older serving as a "mentor". Sick stuff. And before anyone says I have nothing yet to base this on let me say I agree. I have nothing yet to base this on. And I need to find the article again so I think I will subscribe again to newspaper archive but the mere fact alone that Condon says he went into the apt of a man who had pickled heads in jars is enough to make me ask myself what a profiler would say about old Jafsie. I also remember that there was no mention that he didn't run to the police & report it though. Oh yeah. John F Condon was a twisted individual in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by romeo12 on Jun 27, 2014 18:41:32 GMT -5
dena how you been?
|
|
|
Post by deedee1963 on Jun 27, 2014 20:37:03 GMT -5
I've been good, Steve! How have you been? I was so excited to see you on here today!
|
|
|
Post by romeo12 on Jun 27, 2014 21:04:56 GMT -5
its good to hear from the old crew
|
|
|
Post by MK Miller on Aug 26, 2014 16:53:59 GMT -5
I am John F Condon's great granddaughter. I happen to have the medal he received for saving a young boy from drowning, along with the his scrapbook of this trail. While he was an eccentric man he was not a pedophile and I can't believe there is even a discussion on this. My great gandfather may have had his fault but this was not one of them. He was definitely a man who enjoyed the limelight but he also loved his country and at the time Lindbergh was a national hero and that is why he got involved in this case. I had a long discussion about him with the grandmother, who was married to one of his two sons. My grandmother had a master's degree in physics, had also been a school teacher at one point and was invited to join mensa. I asked her if she believed Jafsie and did she believe that Hauptmann was guilty. She told me she definitely believe my great grandfather and also believed Hauptmann was guilty. Normally I don't get involved in this kind of thing but I couldn't stand by while my great grandfather's reputation was defamed in this way.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 26, 2014 20:11:54 GMT -5
Normally I don't get involved in this kind of thing but I couldn't stand by while my great grandfather's reputation was defamed in this way. Thanks for sharing your position. Unfortunately, our discussions center around the documentation which exists. Since your Great Grandfather held a major role in this case, and was untruthful countless times, then its hard to ignore the Reports concerning the alleged crime involving a young girl. In the document I posted above, Captain Oliver said he was aware of this event. Furthermore, Condon's own position was that she "made the whole thing up" - this in and of itself shows a legitimate question does exist.
|
|
|
Post by john on Aug 29, 2014 4:17:31 GMT -5
It's nice to see so many old familiar names going back to the old days on Ronelle's board. Now with that out of the way, all the stories about Condon, difficult to verify in most cases, remind me a little of all the stuff said about Hauptmann.
I'm not trying to suggest that Condon was in league with or in any serious way resembled Hauptmann as to his character, but like Hauptmann he was an "ordinary citizen" who became very well known to the general public; and when that happens all sorts of rumors tend to fly, and some have grains, and in many cases just grains, of truth; but not enough to make a case.
If you dig deep enough into most anyone's life you're likely to find something that's odd or even unsavory (which isn't to say it's true), and this appears to be the case with John F. Condon as well as Bruno Hauptmann. The major difference here is that Hauptmann had a long criminal record in Germany (though not, so far as we know, in America, prior to the LKC), while the evidence for Condon being an upstanding citizen and all-round good (albeit eccentric) guy, is far stronger.
This is all just FWIW style musing, trying to put things in perspective.
|
|
|
Post by corrine on Feb 11, 2015 17:17:22 GMT -5
I am John F Condon's great granddaughter. I happen to have the medal he received for saving a young boy from drowning, along with the his scrapbook of this trail. While he was an eccentric man he was not a pedophile and I can't believe there is even a discussion on this. My great gandfather may have had his fault but this was not one of them. He was definitely a man who enjoyed the limelight but he also loved his country and at the time Lindbergh was a national hero and that is why he got involved in this case. I had a long discussion about him with the grandmother, who was married to one of his two sons. My grandmother had a master's degree in physics, had also been a school teacher at one point and was invited to join mensa. I asked her if she believed Jafsie and did she believe that Hauptmann was guilty. She told me she definitely believe my great grandfather and also believed Hauptmann was guilty. Normally I don't get involved in this kind of thing but I couldn't stand by while my great grandfather's reputation was defamed in this way.
|
|
|
Post by corrine on Feb 11, 2015 17:35:03 GMT -5
John F Condon's Great granddaughter MK Miller that made this post--Is it possible that her last name Miller is connected somehow to Ernst Miller.Maybe Condon knew Ernst Millers family. I always wondered if Ernst Miller's family had something to do with this case.Why did Violet not want to give Ernst Miller's name when she was asked who she was with ?
|
|
|
Post by romeo12 on Feb 11, 2015 20:29:39 GMT -5
Corrine, I understand your position on this, the fbi report I have mentioned him getting in trouble with a child but theres no proof at all that I ever seen on this
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Feb 13, 2015 21:11:22 GMT -5
If Condon was a ped CAL would have known about it after about five minutes with Schwartzkopf.
Either he wasn't or it didn't matter.
|
|
|
Post by rebekah on Feb 15, 2015 19:44:27 GMT -5
<abbr></abbr> "..(redacted..) I cannot recall if Condon himself later mentioned it on one of his self serving writings. But the pervy doctor spoke about going to someone's apts where he observed heads (yes heads) that were pickled in jars. Now I'm trying to remember the exact details and its hazy but in fairly sure this article was from well before the LKC. I was wondering if anyone else was familiar with this story about Condon? I may just have to subscribe to newspaper archives. Com again to find it as reading this thread has made old Jafsie get under my skin again. Frankly I would love to see a profiler do a profile of John F Condon. This pickled head story was beyond the pale......" --deedee1963 Strange. I just read the biography of Dr. Alexis Carrel on wikipedia. This was included: "In 1903 he emigrated to Montreal, Canada, but soon relocated to Chicago, Illinois to work for Hull Laboratory. While there he collaborated with American physician Charles Claude Guthrie in work on vascular suture and the transplantation of blood vessels and organs, as well as the head, and Carrel was awarded the 1912 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for these efforts. In 1906, Carrel joined the newly formed Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research in New York where he spent the rest of his career." (And, where he worked with Lindbergh.) Now, I'm not saying that it was Dr. Carrel's apartment Condon visited (if he really saw such things), but if Carrel kept any of those heads he was working on at the Hull Laboratory, they surely had to be preserved. Like I said, strange.
|
|
|
Post by deedee1963 on Jun 20, 2018 23:09:52 GMT -5
I tend to believe he did something inappropriate. It's not like today where sometimes kids will say something. Back then it was unheard of. This aspect about old Jafsie has ALWAYS bothered me too. Immensely.
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Jun 21, 2018 0:53:52 GMT -5
Right, but why would it make any difference to anything?
|
|
jack7
Major
Der Führer
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by jack7 on Jun 21, 2018 1:00:44 GMT -5
Really, DeeDee, I see your concern, but we're talking about the Lindbergh kidnapping here and Condon is just an interesting sideshow. Interesting to SOME.
|
|