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Post by Michael on Apr 13, 2016 16:45:22 GMT -5
But did Betty actually stay on to care for the new baby? We seem to hear very little about Betty's whereabouts between the initial investigation of the (purported) kidnapping up to her testimony at the Hauptmann trial nearly three years later. What was she up to during this period? She continued to work for the family before quitting. After she resigned she returned home to Glasgow on August 6, 1934.
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Post by corrine on Apr 13, 2016 17:45:36 GMT -5
I can't wait to read your book when it comes out Michael. Best of luck to you!! I will be the first in line at the book store.
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Post by corrine on Apr 13, 2016 18:01:24 GMT -5
I have a question to ask? Wasnt Betty and Red Johnson dateing. I wonder why she would of told her mother that they were just friends.
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Post by rebekah on Apr 13, 2016 18:52:59 GMT -5
Thank you, Stella. Lots of good stuff from Mark!
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 13, 2016 19:08:17 GMT -5
(1) Did Betty Gow have a similar job taking care of baby Jon Lindbergh as she had taking care of Charlie?
(2) I don't doubt that Ms. Gow returned to Glasgow, as you said, on Aug. 6, 1934. So she then came back to the US to testify at the Hauptmann trial in January 1935, then boarded a ship back to Britain days after the Hauptmann trial ended, never to return to the US. Is this correct?
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Post by Michael on Apr 14, 2016 5:18:53 GMT -5
1. Yes. 2. Yes. There were rumors that she was going to remain in the U.S. to resume her old job, or at least that the offer was made to her. However, she returned home instead which put an end to them.
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Post by Michael on Apr 14, 2016 5:33:49 GMT -5
I have a question to ask? Wasnt Betty and Red Johnson dateing. I wonder why she would of told her mother that they were just friends. Great question. If her mother is telling the truth then it seems to me Betty is either lying or didn't care for Red the way he believed she did.
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Post by jack7 on Apr 14, 2016 15:17:26 GMT -5
If she got VD from him which seems a possibility and could have seriously changed her life, though I havn't looked into the two of them much, it would probably put a damper on her thoughts about him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 20:18:03 GMT -5
So who might this girl be?
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Apr 15, 2016 6:29:07 GMT -5
You knowwhat they say about sailors, Amy.
Know what they say about men with small feet?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:25:46 GMT -5
I'm game, Jack. What do they say about men with small feet?
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Post by corrine on Apr 15, 2016 16:38:46 GMT -5
LOL - Lindbergh had very active feet
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Post by jack7 on Apr 15, 2016 16:44:19 GMT -5
They wear little socks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:59:36 GMT -5
HA! How true, Jack. But I bet sailors had more fun!
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Post by Michael on Apr 15, 2016 17:16:35 GMT -5
So who might this girl be? I've always believed it was Dorothy Thompson. As I searched for the proof of this I was unable to find what I was looking for. It's possible I am mis-remembering but it would be my best guess nevertheless:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 19:37:36 GMT -5
I've always believed it was Dorothy Thompson. So, this is an old girlfriend of Red Johnson's. From the way the letter reads it sounds like they were seeing each other in 1930 for about a year. So maybe they stopped seeing each other sometime in 1931 and Johnson moves on to Betty Gow in August of 1931? I am sure Dorothy Thompson was following all the newspaper stories. I can definitely see the possibility it was this girl saying good-bye to Johnson. Thanks for posting this Michael.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 15, 2016 20:06:22 GMT -5
So who might this girl be? I've always believed it was Dorothy Thompson. As I searched for the proof of this I was unable to find what I was looking for. It's possible I am mis-remembering but it would be my best guess nevertheless: Just for clarification, the Dorothy Thompson who was a girlfriend of "Red" Johnson and who was interviewed by Newark Police in connection with the LKC, must NOT be confused with the well-known writer named Dorothy Thompson, who later wrote several articles condemning CAL Sr.'s political views.
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Post by stella7 on Apr 15, 2016 20:26:48 GMT -5
Hurtelable, I had the same reaction!
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Post by corrine on Apr 18, 2016 1:08:32 GMT -5
Condon sure is an odd duck? He never really tells the truth--always some sort of half-truth he can later deny? ["Plausible deniability?"] I think he likes to stay in the public eye and on the front pages. He doesnt like to be upstaged by Red Johnson, or Curtis or anyone? Of course, he gets himself in a heap of trouble making up half-truths. Like the 5 man gang at Throggs Neck, the Tuckahoe woman, or the 3 men at St. Raymonds, or he cant remember who made the Samuelsohn-Box? He always seems to have some "insider information" and then somehow translates that into some crazy story? He always knows more than he reveals? Maybe JFC is being blackmailed into these declarations--he as vulnerable as BRH or Red? He is a conundrum and his motives are never clear? I do wonder, like vovina, if he is always just talking to hear himself talk to himself? Its always difficult to focus on JFC since he is a constantly moving target. When he mentions someone like Red, or Betty, or Peremi, you can usually bet there is some twisted motive. Its simply miraculous he didnt get arrested for perjury. Generally, it wastes alot of time trying to figure him out?
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Post by corrine on Apr 18, 2016 1:18:50 GMT -5
This is an old post- I never heard about the 5 man gang at Throggs Neck. Does anyone know any info on this?
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Post by Michael on Apr 18, 2016 15:51:15 GMT -5
This is an old post- I never heard about the 5 man gang at Throggs Neck. Does anyone know any info on this? It's from an AP article dated May 15th. My copy is from the Washington Post. Hoffman was also interested in it and had Bill Conklin write to Harvey Deuell to track it down. Here is his reply:
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Post by corrine on Apr 18, 2016 17:06:11 GMT -5
This is an old post- I never heard about the 5 man gang at Throggs Neck. Does anyone know any info on this? It's from an AP article dated May 15th. My copy is from the Washington Post. Hoffman was also interested in it and had Bill Conklin write to Harvey Deuell to track it down. Here is his reply: View AttachmentThroggs Neck was my old neighborhood. I grew up one block from the water. It is amazing that Condon admits to being held at gunpoint by 5 men on a boat in Throggs Neck.He says he could recognize four of them in a minute. I am totaly convinced that he knew exactly who the kidnappers were. Growing up in the Neck people always talked.Everyone said, Condon knew who kidnapped the kid.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 18, 2016 18:57:31 GMT -5
This is an old post- I never heard about the 5 man gang at Throggs Neck. Does anyone know any info on this? Yes, the purported incident at Throggs Neck is mentioned in Lloyd Gardner's "The Case That Never Dies," paperback edition, pp.85-86. After Condon's story about the incident was written up by Arthur O'Sullivan in the New York Daily News, Condon denied the story the next day. But Gardner suggests that "[Condon's] denial rings hollow." Condon apparently said in the article that one of the five men who captured and blindfolded him and pointed guns at him was the same John to whom he later paid the ransom.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 18, 2016 19:10:52 GMT -5
About what time period are you referring to, Corrine, when you say people in the neighborhood were talking about Condon and his role in the LKC?
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Post by corrine on Apr 18, 2016 21:47:55 GMT -5
About what time period are you referring to, Corrine, when you say people in the neighborhood were talking about Condon and his role in the LKC? Hurtelable, The time period I'm referring to would be in the sixty's. I was a young girl at the time. My father was born July 1930, he lived right across from St. Raymond's Cemetery. I guess when you live in a neighborhood where ransom money is dropped, you hear many stories. The old timers on our block would sit outside all day talking about the fact that Condon, Knew and also met the kidnappers.The police didnt look hard enough into Condons past and friends.They said, Condon was (scared (bleep)) that he would go down for the crime. If he told what he knew.How he got away with all of it - and others went to jail. He was a sharp teacher that got away with helping the kidnappers and not helping to try and turn them in.He should of went to jail for all the lies and bullshit he was scared and not willing to give them up.He knew the kidnappers alright that's what everyone talked about. You are not going to see this kind of stuff in anyone's book that's for sure.
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Post by Michael on Apr 19, 2016 5:18:57 GMT -5
He knew the kidnappers alright that's what everyone talked about. You are not going to see this kind of stuff in anyone's book that's for sure. Mark my words Corrine - if I ever get to a 2nd volume I will destroy this guy. Once people see what he really did (most) will be able to see him for what he actually was.
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Post by hurtelable on Apr 19, 2016 14:22:15 GMT -5
Of course, there are some theories which contend that there was no kidnapping at all. These include the the scenario that Charlie was killed accidentally or on purpose by someone in the Lindbergh family, and that Charlie was given away because of poor health and possibly exchanged for another baby, both covered up by a purported kidnapping. If there was no kidnapping, then Condon might have been helping the extortionists, not the kidnappers if there was no kidnapping. Seems as if becoming a celebrity in his senior years was his primary motivation for inserting himself into this affair. The celebrity status translated into some financial rewards for him via his speaking tour and his book "Jafsie Tells All," but in so far as his known, he never received any payoff directly from the extortion gang.
Yes, law enforcement was suspicious of Condon for several years, but it seems as if his dishonest identification of Hauptmann as "Cemetery John" was his away of paying them off to keep them off his trail.
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Post by corrine on Apr 19, 2016 17:17:22 GMT -5
Of course, there are some theories which contend that there was no kidnapping at all. These include the the scenario that Charlie was killed accidentally or on purpose by someone in the Lindbergh family, and that Charlie was given away because of poor health and possibly exchanged for another baby, both covered up by a purported kidnapping. If there was no kidnapping, then Condon might have been helping the extortionists, not the kidnappers if there was no kidnapping. Seems as if becoming a celebrity in his senior years was his primary motivation for inserting himself into this affair. The celebrity status translated into some financial rewards for him via his speaking tour and his book "Jafsie Tells All," but in so far as his known, he never received any payoff directly from the extortion gang. Yes, law enforcement was suspicious of Condon for several years, but it seems as if his dishonest identification of Hauptmann as "Cemetery John" was his away of paying them off to keep them off his trail. Whether Condon helped Lindbergh out of a big jam or helped the kidnappers it doesnt matter. Condon knew what took place and he turned himself into the coward that he became,( with not telling the truth.)He made himself out to be God's gift to the world.I do agree with some of the theories you wrote Hurtelable.Some people would not even buy his book back in the day Jafsie Tell's All he was known to be Fu-- of Sh-- People were very upset that he did speaking tours- he had some nerve.It was all a crock this is what I heard many years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 14:29:52 GMT -5
Throggs Neck was my old neighborhood. I grew up one block from the water. Growing up in the Neck people always talked.Everyone said, Condon knew who kidnapped the kid. Thanks for sharing this about your neighborhood and how everyone thought Condon knew who the kidnappers were. You mention that your father had lived across from St. Raymond's cemetery. I was wondering if you might know if the school Dr. Condon was principal of, PS 12, in Westchester Square, is the school that children from Throggs Neck would have attended?
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Post by corrine on Apr 20, 2016 17:46:20 GMT -5
Throggs Neck was my old neighborhood. I grew up one block from the water. Growing up in the Neck people always talked.Everyone said, Condon knew who kidnapped the kid. Thanks for sharing this about your neighborhood and how everyone thought Condon knew who the kidnappers were. You mention that your father had lived across from St. Raymond's cemetery. I was wondering if you might know if the school Dr. Condon was principal of, PS 12, in Westchester Square, is the school that children from Throggs Neck would have attended? Dr.John F. Condon was the principal of PS 12 in Westchester Sq Bronx, NY- I have a picture of him,with the baseball team. I'm not that great with the computer. Michael I hope you don't mind helping me share this photo.I just emailed you the photo can you help post it for me.
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