jack7
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Post by jack7 on Aug 18, 2008 12:21:41 GMT -5
Perhaps this is reiteration, and deals with things not particularly obvious, but where is there evidence that the table should be eliminated as a clue? A couple of questions as examples, who says it is a 1940 vintage table versus a 1930 table - I've seen lots of them and they all look the same to me. It was made by a very large manufacturer and surely someone is still alive, or records can be had which would show roughly at least when it was made. Have the holes ever been matched up with similar tables? Rick seems very to be on to something IMO that persons in remote areas would be able to construct legitimate notes, but of course that opens up conspiracy which some don't like. It seems to me that if the table was a hoax some reference would made to the holes as part of the crime, mainly because everyone thinks everyone else is stupid and they'd never find the connection. To my mind I can see the NSDAP wanting in some way to take credit (even if it was done by rogues) for the Lindbergh crime, but historically if someone else did it, they'd want to forget it. There are only a few scenarios left. Hauptmann, of course was involved, and all others can be excluded because the crime accomplished what it set out to do. CAL became a spokesperson for the Nazis!
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 18, 2008 13:09:39 GMT -5
Jack, I really don't care if someone wants to keep the Mersman in play or not. Been there, done that. I guess what gets me pissed is those who love to throw out crap and don't have the kahunas to even do the minimum of work to validate their claims. I will guarantee you that I spent more time and money on that piece than anyone else, especially the ones who love to drag it up at every opportunity. I have a folder filled with Mersman catalogs ( all purchased by me) and measurements. I recreated the table part. I tried to make the holes work. No go. I didn't do any of this with an agenda. In fact, since it was Mark who made the discovery, if anything I wanted it to work. You ask very good questions and I think that you are very open minded like Michael. That's an admirable trait. My patience is not as great. I just get worn out with baseless claims and those who constantly make them. Look at the crap you have faced on the Hoax site, and you didn't even do anything wrong. It just grows old. I guess what I am trying to say to you is this, if you have any interest in the Mersman angle, then by all means pursue it. I'll be glad to share with you any of the material I have. Ultimately I think you will probably come to the same conclusion, though. But at least you will have actually tried. That's a helluva lot more than most.
Here's a couple of items to consider regarding the table;
Is it really a Mersman? Look at the obvious. Look closely at the writing. Look even closer at the screw holes. Look even closer than that at the story by it's owner. Put the first and last together.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Aug 18, 2008 13:52:34 GMT -5
Your conclusions are always cool by me Kevin. Like I said in the prelate, I was getting into something I didn't know enough about. I do wonder about the Nazi angle though, but if I were in CAL's shoes I would have certainly said and done the same things myself. I am anti-war. Anything can be discussed and figured out. I sat in a room with four dopers once who were ready to slit me because I am a cracker, and talked about one of their cool leather jackets. I'm looking at, and I hope you can too, the RESULT of the kidnapping, rather than the act. There still seem unanswered questions about the table, but I'll forget that and leave it at your discretion. It seems to be that just the other perps havn't been figured out. You don't speculate much but why not hit me - Fisch? The tuba player? Gerta (million dollar legs - ask Joe)?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 18, 2008 17:04:07 GMT -5
You are right Jack, I try not to speculate too much. I figure there are enough people already doing that. The other perps? I don't know. It would have to be someone Hauptmann trusted implicitly, imho. Fisch? Here again I just don't know. Attempting to understand the true nature and depth of this relationship is difficult, at least for me. I guess I have a very difficult time believing that in a Fisch-Hauptmann relationship, Fisch would be above Hauptmann. Yet I have been told by someone I deeply respect and who knows infinitely more than I about these characters, that Hauptmann would defer to Fisch. So I just don't know. It seems pretty obvious that they were both up to no good and moving money back and forth. Beyond that, who knows? Probably the key is the work Rab has done with the finances. Ask Michael if you have not seen this.
A woman would be a logical choice for a kidnapping accomplice. But, I'm not so sure that was the plan. In fact I highly doubt it. One thing should be obvious to everyone, there is a trail. It may be obscure at times and convoluted, but it's there to follow. Not so with the expected elements of a complete kidnapping.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Aug 18, 2008 20:18:35 GMT -5
An experienced crook (and BRH was) wouldn't leave a car or a ladder unattended, so it seems there were three, and as you say, quite possibly one woman. Have you ever read Joe McGiniss "Cruel Doubt?" It's a mysterious murder that noone would have figured out - except someone snitched. So the very unlikely was in fact reality, but it wouldn't have been surely guessed beforehand. That's also the Lindbergh enigma. There's some thing(s) no one will ever know about the crime - so it's probably an impossibility to solve.
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 19, 2008 16:21:11 GMT -5
No Jack, haven't read that. I think that this crime can be solved ( if it hasn't already), but there will always be some unanswered questions. Each will have to make their own determination on some of these issues. Of course it seems pretty obvious to me that some who follow this case do so for reasons beyond the mystery of the crime. I think for them the solution lies somewhere beyond reality.
Hey Jack, do you hear that? That's the sound of silence. What'd I say? Too predictable.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Aug 19, 2008 23:11:46 GMT -5
I hear it
And hope others do too.
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Post by anonymouse on Aug 23, 2008 1:43:02 GMT -5
ex amine carefully the reverse side of Notes 9, 6, 5, 2 & 1 in Haring.
does the center hole appear slightly larger than its end mates- why would that be?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 23, 2008 7:51:18 GMT -5
That be because them other two seem smaller!
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Post by AN Onymous on Aug 23, 2008 11:14:46 GMT -5
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 23, 2008 12:50:02 GMT -5
Aren't you busy punching holes?
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Post by sam yoo nun on Aug 24, 2008 3:14:36 GMT -5
"by the laws of chance it would take a world much vaster than ours to provide a coincidence of those four nail holes matching accidentally with four other nail holes to which they had no connection" Arthur Koehler in Gardner p. 134
So, although we only have Three (3) holes on the ransom notes, BUT the size of the center hole is larger than its side mates that would be......ten thousand to the fourth power or approximately:
1:10,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of being wrong/qed
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Aug 24, 2008 6:50:31 GMT -5
PUNCH THE HOLES! * * *
Odds? Here's some odds; 1,000,000,000 to 1 you don't do it, double that if you do and can successfully recreate the note holes.
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jack7
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Post by jack7 on Aug 24, 2008 12:10:27 GMT -5
I agree Kevin, I think it's solved. But there are some things about it that will probably never be (I should have said) known. It's interesting to keep poking at it though, although it's probably either well covered up (not much has been found conclusively for seventy years) or just a really freaky, most lucky crime for the perps. If BRH would not have unwisely or unluckily scattered cash we never would have not known anything about the first "Crime of the Century," of which there were several others. Personally I think the first crime of the century, 1900's, was WWI, and you can imagine the others. We've already currently had three crimes of the century by my definition, and it's only 08! It reminds me of what you said in an earlier post - "it's over."
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Post by hurtelable on Aug 25, 2014 15:03:48 GMT -5
To Michael and All:
Just read Lloyd Gardner's book. He explains that someone named Elmer Bolliard noticed in 1948 that, on the brace of an old table he had bought several years before, there was a handwritten confession to the Lindbergh baby kidnapping in German.
Does anyone have the exact wording in German, or, better yet for those of us who are not too proficient in reading German, an English translation of this purported "confession"?
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Post by Michael on Aug 25, 2014 15:51:30 GMT -5
To Michael and All:
Just read Lloyd Gardner's book. He explains that someone named Elmer Bolliard noticed in 1948 that, on the brace of an old table he had bought several years before, there was a handwritten confession to the Lindbergh baby kidnapping in German.
Does anyone have the exact wording in German, or, better yet for those of us who are not too proficient in reading German, an English translation of this purported "confession"? lindberghkidnap.proboards.com/thread/324/mersman-table-piece
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Post by hurtelable on Aug 26, 2014 15:19:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Michael, for the link to the Mark Falzini piece about the Mersman table.
If no such comparison was ever done, would it be possible to compare the handwriting in the confession on the brace of table to the known writings of Jacob Nosovitsky? It may be a long shot chance that he wrote the confession, but he would have the daring and the cruel sense of humor to do something like that, even if only to fool investigators. Recall, too, that Nosovitsky could write German (he had spent some time in Germany as an international spy) but that he was not a native German writer, having been born in the Ukraine. And in signing it as "NSDAP," he would have thrown everyone off his track, because Noso himself was Jewish.
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