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Post by Michael on Nov 16, 2012 16:59:43 GMT -5
That's one of the "dilemmas" one faces when looking at it from a neutral perspective. The other one is that his samples didn't match any of the actual ladder - which means if what he was saying was true they didn't use his material (at least not for the ladder).
I've seen it suggested he was looking for attention. I don't buy that because he already got it with the Ransom Box. I've seen it said he could have been wrong about it being Hauptmann. I say that could be true about anyone identifying someone else. But we must consider other circumstances and variables to either support or harm this position. Like - that after Condon decided to stop pretending he did not know or remember who built the box then led the FBI to Samuelsohn - Samuelsohn immediately came out of his shop and identified Condon in relationship to the Ransom Box request.
Furthermore, we must remember once Condon testified in Flemington his strange case of Amnesia struck him, once again, concerning who built the Ransom Box! He couldn't recall again! It was an obvious lie used to compliment the State's decision not to have Samuelsohn testify, and its proof positive the old man was doing this stuff on purpose.
Not only did he remember who it was, he would drop by from time to time to see Samuelsohn (fishing for information). So senility or eccentricity cannot be randomly applied to explain away his deliberate actions.
So I ask myself why didn't Condon come clean about who built the box in the first place? He was pretending not to know, and as proven above, there had to be a reason. So what was it? What's incriminating about the Ransom Box?
Or could it be for another reason? For example, what are the odds those involved in this thing use the same Cabinet Maker the "innocent" Intermediary used?
Could be a coincidence right? But now consider Condon tried to keep them away from him and that he has shown to have reasons to engage in this type of behavior.
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Post by jack7 on Nov 25, 2012 23:52:58 GMT -5
It would seem that the only thing Condon wouldn't want would be a link to BRH or someone involved with the crime, and makes one wonder if he didn't know of a link. Has it ever been written how he knew of Samuelsohn in the first place - old friend, found him in the phone book, etc. Seems to me he said when they decided to build the box that he knew of a cabinetmaker who could do it.
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Post by Michael on Nov 26, 2012 8:54:06 GMT -5
Peremi was his first choice. The story goes that he wanted too much money to build it so Condon passed and went to the next guy. When the Cops wanted to know who built it Condon was telling them "Old Man Peremi."
If you, or anyone else, wants me to go into this more I will.
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Post by jack7 on Nov 26, 2012 11:51:49 GMT -5
Well, I guess there will always be questions. Bugliosi, a true crime writer as well as former prosecuting attorney, and private practice attorney said major crimes and cases always have questions, but he just decides to his mind who is guilty and writes the unknown off as usually unsolvable. Judging from this site, the seemingly unsolvable can sometimes be solved. Of course the solution often simply brings up more questions and VB perhaps uses his time better. A connection between Condon and anyone else involved in TLC would be a big find, but it seems to me there were rumors of Condon and at least one of his students having some kind of intimate? relationship so JC may have more to cover than we are aware of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 13:48:41 GMT -5
Michael,
Do you know the address for Ralph and Myra Hacker at the time of the Lindbergh kidnapping?
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Post by Michael on Mar 23, 2013 15:20:36 GMT -5
Hi Amy. I seem to remember an FBI Report with that exact address at the time of the kidnapping. Unfortunately I am still trying to find it, and since its an FBI Report it could be just about anywhere in whatever file I deemed most worthy of it (at the time I filed it). Anyway, here is what I've found so far.... On 2-16-34: Ralph was living at 524 Broad Ave Leonia, N. J. while his brother Glenn was at 1143 Abbot Place, Palisades Park, N. J. On 6-14-33: Ralph was living at 1545 Warwick Ave, Teaneck, N. J. Since the FBI Summary Report says Ralph was living in West Englewood at the time of the kidnapping I believe this could be that address. I might be wrong though so unless I find something different, or someone corrects me - that's what I'll have to go with at the moment. By the way, here is their letter head for the business: Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 20:39:49 GMT -5
Hi Michael.
Thanks for the addresses and the Hacker letterhead. Teaneck N.J. isn't that far from Englewood or the Morrow Estate.
I am interested in mapping out people who have connections to some of the principle players in this case. Since Ralph and Myra were involved with Condon during the negotiation period of the extortion, I am interested in where they fit geographically in this picture.
I find it interesting that Ralph's business is located in Fort Lee. I wonder if Ralph or his brother knew Henry Ellerson the Morrow chauffeur?
I totally understand about the difficulty of finding things that have been filed! I have been keeping a notebook like you suggested to me awhile back. That certainly helps me. What has been happening to me is sometimes I read something or locate something that I don't think is noteworthy at that time and then later on I encounter something else that causes me to recall an item I didn't think worth putting in the book. I then go insane trying to remember where I saw or read that item and kicking myself for not writing it down. Sorry, just needed to vent a little.
Since there are FBI reports about the Hackers, did LE look at them in a serious way as possibly having involvement in the Lindbergh crime?
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Post by jack7 on Mar 24, 2013 3:26:30 GMT -5
Back to the box, it seems like an influx of insanities. Is it really some kind of ruse? Why would the kidnapper care what he got his money in? Why would Lindbergh care what he gave him the money in. And why is Condon involved in that part of the crime at all? When you look closely at the entire scenario it looks very much like something the whackey Condon might set up, and he did finger Hauptmann to the chair. Did Jafsie get away with the ultimate crime? Was CAL having an affair with Condon's daughter or some other unknown motive? We mostly think of people as good persons, but ask Michael - they aren't necessarily.
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Post by jack7 on Mar 24, 2013 3:38:32 GMT -5
One thing I always found interesting though is that the perp knew exactly the size of box that the ransom cash would fit into, in spite of it being in varying denominations. It would be easy to figure out how much space would be needed for 10k in single dollar bills, but to have a variety of bills and a large amount always seemed to me to beyond the capabilities of anyone to figure the exact space they would take, except perhaps Professor Condon.
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Post by jack7 on Mar 24, 2013 3:54:45 GMT -5
Hey I just solved the Lindbergh crime. Condon created it and wanted to become world famous for solving it, but things got upgoofed, especially when the baby was killed or accidentially died. Condon is the one who had the matching note symbols which got him in the door and things went on from there...
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Post by xjd on Mar 24, 2013 7:50:08 GMT -5
jack7; that is a brilliant theory, considering how wacky Condon was, it fits a lot of details. maybe JFC felt in light of the pedophile rumors his reputation needed to be salvaged.
I am not saying I agree with it entirely but it is plenty of fun to think about.
another thing I always wondered about was Condon and the boxer friend, or bodyguard as he is called at times? Why would an upstanding citizen such as JFC need a bodyguard (prior to the LKC hoopla)?
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Post by Michael on Mar 24, 2013 11:49:12 GMT -5
Peripherally at some points then more closely at one other. He was supposed to have been the one who designed the Ransom Box. He was also the one who took the cast at St. Raymond's Cemetery. Mrs. Condon told Police his business wasn't doing well, and that he was living in West Englewood at the time. West Englewood is a neighborhood in Teaneck, so the above address is probably the right one.
However, during the "main" investigation into him, Lt. Finn said he was living at 9 Cresecent Ave., Palisade Park, N. J. As you may recall from A&M's book, it was alleged that Hacker was connected to the Geissler family by way of men named Rodel and Krippendorf. Unfortunately, from the actual investigations I have it seems the Hacker in question was Rudolph Hacker - not Ralph. They all seemed to live close to one another so that's likely where the mix up occurred. Yet exactly why Finn would continue to make this allegation after Hauptmann's arrest in his Liberty Series is something I cannot answer.
I also found another general address in one of Agent Manning's Reports. This Report has so many topics in it that it would make your head spin. Anyway it claims Hacker spent most of his time during the negotiations at the Condon home, and that he normally resided in Fort Lee. This could be mistaking his Business for his home though..... It also says he saw at least one Ransom Note and the Secret Symbol during this time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 9:45:15 GMT -5
So LE was looking more intensely into Ralph Hacker. I find his constant presence during the ransom negotiations something to be questioned. Why a special box needed to be designed and built for the ransom money has never been clear to me. I think of this as all drama on Condon's part, totally unnecessary, a waste of time and not what the ransom note was asking for. A packet is not a box. I don't see Hauptmann, as author of the notes, having a fancy keyed box in mind when he requested a packet. Why Breckinridge ever signed off on this idea I will never understand.
Anyway, Michael, you say that Ralph was being mistaken for Rudolph Hacker. Could Rudolph be the person living on Cresent Ave. Palisade Park, N.J.? And I believe in an earlier post you mention that Glenn Hacker lived in Palisade Park, N.J. I wonder if Glen might have known Rudolph. Was Rudolph ever questioned by LE? I admit I have not looked hard at the Geissler angle of the LKC. I know their name comes up as a connection to the JJ Faulkner deposit slip.
So Mrs. Condon says that Ralph's business wasn't doing well at the time of the kidnapping. I guess that could give him a motive to be involved in an extortion. Is it true that Condon, himself, was having financial issues with his real estate holdings and taxes? Once Condon became a suspect in this case, was a financial investigation done on him? I believe that the extra $20,000 asked for, above the $50,000, was intended for the intermediary. I think CJ communicated this to Condon during their initial conversation at St. Raymonds. CJ didn't want that 20 grand, hence Condon returning to Lindbergh with his story of talking the kidnappers down to the initial $50,000. Condon wanted no part of that money and needed a cover story for not taking it to CJ. Just my opinion of course.
Agent Manning's reports sound quite interesting. You have my curiosity to know more about the many topiics aroused!
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Post by Michael on Mar 25, 2013 15:50:25 GMT -5
A good question. I've often believed the Press may have behind this....adding in stuff to catch a potential Reader's eye. It's something they did and quite often I might add. But the Police were calling him this too. But the facts are they both denied this: Reich Cross TT p. 582Q: Mr. Reich, are you engaged as a sort of a bodyguard for Dr. Condon?
A: No Sir. Condon Statement - June 2, 1932 p. 10Q: How long has he been acting as your bodyguard and chauffeur?
A: He was never my bodyguard. It's also possible he was and they made the decision to deny it.... According to the Reports, Krippendorf was living with "R. Hacker" at 9 Crescent Ave, Palisade, New Jersey. Krippendorf I am sure you'll remember from the A&M book. Lt. Finn claimed he met the description of Cemetery John. Condon was shown a picture of him but did not identify it. From my experience at the NJSP Archives, I believe this investigation was probably only 2nd to Hauptmann's in terms of man-hours. I've combined it with my J. J. Faulkner files since they overlap and intermingle at times. I've never seen any investigation into his bank accounts. I've seen it said it some places he was not doing well and in others that he was. Condon himself I believe can be credited with claiming both as well. I don't believe so. It's weird. I know there is no statement from Ralph, which was probably the first thing they should have done. Since you raised this issue I have been going through these files again. Some are handwritten so its easy to miss things. Think of these Reports as a "mini-version" of the FBI Summary. This one is in that format. What some did was write a big report covering all the investigations for a "block of time". So it goes from one subject into the next then into the next. Reports like this are potentially many pages long covering various topics.
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Post by Michael on Mar 25, 2013 15:55:43 GMT -5
Krippendorf's automobile registration: Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2013 15:39:02 GMT -5
So Rudolph was never interviewed and there is no statement for Ralph. Hmmmm. This is disappointing. Could Rudolph and Ralph be the same person? Maybe Ralph was Rudolph when he was in school. Rudolph could have become Ralph after high school. Maybe he chose Ralph because it sounds more American and nicer for business reasons. Just guessing on all this.
William Krippendorf is an interesting person. I checked A & M's book about him. It seems Willie had connections to two people who also knew Ralph Hacker. Who is Leo Rodel? Was he investigated at all?
The fact that Lt. Finn thought Krippendorf fit the description of CJ makes him even more interesting. Since Condon could not identify him as CJ from a picture, I suppose that ended any further look into Krippendorf. How hard did they really look at any of these people? Did the fact that because this group of guys had connections to Dr. Condon's son-in-law influence the investigation of them?
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Post by ktolks on Mar 26, 2013 20:30:12 GMT -5
Condon is brought in by the REAL bad guys because they know that with HIM as intermediary, Lindbergh WILL turn over the 50K. Once they HAVE the money, they can make sure it ends up in Hauptmann's garage shortly after the arrest. The money, and Condon's phony ID -- and all the other framed evidence -- set the stage for Hauptmann's trial, where the ultimate objective of the bad guys is to make both Lindberghs perjure themselves. Once Hauptmann dies, the Lindberghs' will be guilty of perjury in a capital case where the defendant is executed. In other words, they will be in deep trouble.
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Post by Michael on Mar 27, 2013 5:36:35 GMT -5
Maybe I should say that if there is - that I've never come across it, or that maybe if one existed it is no longer at the NJSP Archives. Now with that in mind I've gone to the Archives with the goal to find anything I could on Hacker. So the position I now hold is they didn't take one.
I just want to caution anyone that although I've spent a ton of time there, its not above the realm of possibility that I could miss something, forget something, or be wrong about something. I suppose what I am trying to say is that if someone has something to challenge me by all means please do.
I'd say no. I am presently going through the material to give you a better idea, but as I recall they interviewed the Neighbors.
He was friends with Krippendorf. His name is in these same Reports.
Yes and no. Condon identified a lot of people. He also cleared many as well. The Cops were aware of this, and honestly I'd have to say at some point it was more just a matter of procedure.
My guess is they didn't want to upset Condon, so this idea his son-in-law might be connected wasn't something they'd want him to know about. I think when they showed him a picture of Krippendorf it was probably at a point where this man Hacker was Ralph had been dismissed.
But again, I'll have to recheck the Reports to make sure this theory works.
Just to play Devil's Advocate here... How does Condon's unwillingness to identify, even saying he was not CJ in NY, be explained by this theory?
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Post by jdanniel on Mar 27, 2013 8:16:34 GMT -5
Condon had a phony ID? What's the source that corroborates this statement? I don't recall reading this. Jd
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 10:09:39 GMT -5
I don't think I have ever encountered the theory that the ransom money was planted by others to frame Hauptmann. Could you elaborate on this please?
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Post by jdanniel on Mar 27, 2013 15:02:56 GMT -5
I can't envision any plausible scenario whatsoever in which Hauptmann was merely an Oswaldesque patsy. There are just too many coincidences.
For example: Is there any way possible that such conspirators could have known about his criminal past in Germany? Is there any way they could have known he broke into the second story window of his hometown mayor's house--with a ladder?
A German immigrant carpenter stowaway stock market dabbler in the Bronx. Wow...pay dirt!
Now...all they had to do was control his every move, his every step, without him knowing or realizing it, so he can take the fall without the possibility of having an alibi for ANYTHING.
Jd
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Post by Michael on Mar 27, 2013 18:07:39 GMT -5
Rodel lived across the street from Krippendorf when he was on Tomhunter Road in Fort Lee, and as a result became friends with him. They did investigate him. So far I see interviews with Neighbors and something else they normally did was interview the Postal Service about him.
Let me qualify this comment....
If a Report involving Police Authority claimed Condon "identified" a photo then that's what I am talking about.
For example:
Lt. Snook and Agent Black both wrote that Condon identified Simek's photo.
Lt. Keaton wrote Jack Longsio's photo was identified by Dr. Condon.
Cpl. Leon wrote that Condon circled the photo of a Dr. Schneiderwirth as someone who "answered" to the man who he paid the 50K.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 21:19:02 GMT -5
I have been doing a little more reading on this Faulkner/Geissler/Liepold/Krippendorf/Hacker angle. It is, I will admit, intriguing.
Carl Oswin Geissler was married to Jane Faulkner, who had at one time resided at the address on the Faulkner deposit slip. Geissler's handwriting was checked against the deposit slip and came up as a very good match. Henry Liepold married Geissler's daughter Phylis who made a mysterious trip to Canada, under an assumed name, when the family came under suspicion. Henry Liepold sends a cryptic telegram to Willie Krippendorf, who went to Germany shortly after the payment of the ransom to CJ, requesting him to come back but make sure you take the cheapest steamer rate possible when returning. Willie returns and it just so happens that his physical description is very close to the description given by Condon and Perrone of Cemetery John. Willie was 35 years old in 1932, around 5 feet 11 inches tall, weighed about 155 pounds, had blonde hair and gray eyes. Could he maybe be CJ? Perrone said that the 15 cent fare that took his cab to Knox Place looked alot like Henry Liepold. Could Henry be CJ's accomplice? Henry commits suicide during the investigation so we will never know the answer to that question. Both Willie and Henry know Ralph Hacker and Ralph Hacker is connected to Condon who gave CJ the ransom money. If this wasn't all true, I would say it is an excellent plot for an Agatha Christie Book!
Did LE interview Krippendorf? Did he say why he was returning to New Jersey? Did they investigate what he did while in Germany? Did he have an alibi for all the important dates: 3/1/1932, 3/12/1932 and 4/2/1932? Did they check his handwriting against the ransom notes? What did Krippendorf's neighbors say about him when they were interviewed?
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Post by ktolks on Mar 28, 2013 9:04:22 GMT -5
If the Giesslers had had anything to do with the crime, why would they have used the name "J J Faulkner" -- one of their own relatives -- on the deposit slip for the $2980? Wouldn't they have made up a name to use?
For this reason the whole premise behind the NYPD's pursuit of the Giesslers seems ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 9:40:47 GMT -5
I see what you are saying Kurt. It does seems like a foolish thing to do. But then, Hauptmann using wood from his home in building the kidnap ladder ended up being foolish too. Perhaps it never occured to Giessler or Hauptmann that the authorities would be able to trace anything back the way they did.
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Post by stella7 on Mar 28, 2013 11:42:50 GMT -5
I like where you're going with this, Amy. Now, how do we connect this group to Hauptmann, who had clear involvement.
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Post by jdanniel on Mar 28, 2013 16:02:43 GMT -5
If they were, in fact, involved, then perhaps--again, this is just a guess--they believed in hiding in plain sight. Jd
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Post by ktolks on Mar 28, 2013 19:54:37 GMT -5
After all the research done on Rail 16, we can be quite certain that it came out of Hauptmann's attic and was part of the kidnap ladder on March 1st, 1932. But that doesn't mean Hauptmann was the guy who took it out of the attic and built it into the ladder. When all is said and done, it would have been very unusual for Hauptmann to go to his attic to obtain a piece of lumber when -- as he said himself -- he had plenty of wood in his garage.
The alternative is that Rail 16 was removed from the attic and built into the ladder as part of a deliberate effort to incriminate Hauptmann. In other words, I'm suggesting that Hauptmann was framed. And those same people who removed Rail 16 from the attic could at the same time have obtained samples of Hauptmann's handwriting from his apartment. All that would have been required in order to accomplish the frameup was clandestine access to Hauptmann's apartment.
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Post by Michael on Mar 28, 2013 20:55:26 GMT -5
What seals this for me is that the NJSP's Det. Patterson interviewed Postmaster Meyn regarding Ralph/Rudolf Hacker. Meyn told him he was positive Ralph was not Rudolf and that they were not related. He said he knew the Hacker brothers for 15 years and they had originally come from Montana. Patterson noted that Rudolf was German and spoke with a broken accent. I think this is simply more evidence these Agencies were not properly communicating with one another either by negligence or purposely for one reason or another. However, its 6 days after this interview that Condon is shown a picture of Krippendorf. This seems to be in line with my theory on the matter. I am still working on this. According to Cpl. Leon's investigation after interviewing the Landlords, the Krippendorf's went back to Germany at the request of his Father to go into the shoe business. This venture was not successful so they returned. See Wilson's handwritten report below (despite his observations Theresa's handwriting was eliminated.) All claiming he was an upstanding law abiding individual. I don't share this opinion and here's why.... Look at the Bobby Franks murder for example. Two super intelligent kids setting out to commit the perfect crime. Months of planning, burned evidence, destroyed the typewriter, poured acid on the body - the whole nine yards. Yet Leopold dropped his glasses near the victim. So what we have here is someone using the name and address of Faulkner - combine that with Schindler's car - and the Police would have been completely incompetent if they had ignored this. Their main course was the idea that whoever penned the deposit slip knew the Faulkners when they lived at Plymouth Apartments. So as Law Enforcement you pursue those lines to see what you come up with. Even Geissler seemed to believe the possibility and questioned his own son-in-law to ensure he hadn't been involved somehow. Attachments:
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Post by ktolks on Mar 28, 2013 21:34:08 GMT -5
So do you believe the Giesslers, Leipold, and/or Krippendorf had anything to do with the kidnap or ransom money? If so, how does the whole fit together?
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