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Post by lightningjew on Mar 6, 2015 19:41:24 GMT -5
Hi Rebekah, I'm not sure if it would've been possible for Anne to have actually heard anything. She could've imagined it, but she seemed pretty consistent in her accounts of hearing tires on gravel around 8pm, thinking it was Lindbergh, who didn't arrive home for another 20-25 minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 20:08:07 GMT -5
After signalling to each other on Featherbed, I think two cars, with a total of three kidnappers in them (in keeping with witness descriptions over the course of that afternoon), met at the driveway entrance, pulled in, and parked at the entrance to the no-longer-extant access road--a left hand turn about 100 ft. up from the driveway entrance. The three kidnappers piled into one car with the ladder, leaving the other car at the access road-driveway junction, and headed up the driveway. Given the crime scene established here, it looks to me like two kidnappers got out of the car with the ladder and assembled it in the courtyard or at a point just before the driveway emptied into the courtyard. They then walked it over to the house and leaned the ladder against the outer wall to the side of the nursery window, all while staying on the construction catwalk. Since getting in through the window is hard and launching yourself over a toy chest and into a pitch black room (all in a gale) without making a sound is damn near impossible, I think one kidnapper went in through the front door, straight up into the nursery. The body was handed off from the window, to the other kidnapper at the top of the ladder. This guy took the body to the car, the driver taking off with it (the tire sound Anne heard) and waiting at the driveway-access road junction. I think the kidnapper in the nursery then went out through the front door, met the other guy outside, and they took the ladder across the backyard, dumped it, and walked down the access road, to the driver and the other car. It may hard to picture, but if you look at Kevkon's photo, it's actually a quite efficient circuit. LJ, I am getting confused by the driveway/access road entrance. When you say the kidnappers met at the driveway do you mean the Lindbergh driveway or the access road entrance? Is the car that is left behind on Hopewell-Amwell Road or on the access road? Sorry!
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Post by lightningjew on Mar 6, 2015 20:34:40 GMT -5
Okay, if you turn onto the driveway from what is today Lindbergh Rd., there was an old house with some chickencoops at the driveway entrance. About 100 ft. behind this and up the driveway there was a left turn--this was the access road, which ran roughly parallel to the driveway and emptied out into the Highfields backyard. I think one car was left at this turn onto the access road--off Lindbergh Rd. so no one would see it. The three guys transferred to the other car with the ladder and drove up to the house, using the driveway. I think after they did whatever they did up there, the driver left with CAL Jr.'s body and returned to the access road entrance, at the end of the driveway, where the other car was. The other two kidnappers walked down the access road from the other, backyard end of it and met him. They drove off from there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 21:19:04 GMT -5
Okay, if you turn onto the driveway from what is today Lindbergh Rd., there was an old house with some chickencoops at the driveway entrance. About 100 ft. behind this and up the driveway there was a left turn--this was the access road, which ran roughly parallel to the driveway and emptied out into the Highfields backyard. I think one car was left at this turn onto the access road--off Lindbergh Rd. so no one would see it. The three guys transferred to the other car with the ladder and drove up to the house, using the driveway. I think after they did whatever they did up there, the driver left with CAL Jr.'s body and returned to the access road entrance, at the end of the driveway, where the other car was. The other two kidnappers walked down the access road from the other, backyard end of it and met him. They drove off from there. Thanks LJ. Gosh, I never realized that the access road was entered from Lindbergh Lane(Lindbergh private drive). I always thought it led out to what is today called Lindbergh Road. Now I understand and I think that would have been a great place to have the kidnap cars meet up and then leave one car there like you say. Then the two kidnappers who removed the ladder walk down the access road to the parked car and leave. I think that works really well.
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Post by Michael on Mar 6, 2015 21:47:53 GMT -5
thanks Michael! unless there is a photo somewhere of that garage floor, we can't be sure of the dimensions of the "recently spaded up" area of dirt. however, i gotta think if the hole was big enough to accommodate a 10x8 can (at a depth of 12 inches) could also be generally big enough to fit the dead toddler. unless it was dug straight down with a hole digger and not by hand with shovel. am i making sense? also, i would bet Anna never went into, or needed to, that garage. so it would be pretty safe that she wouldn't discover anything. Here's another photo of the garage: There is another drive, (first one east of the main driveway) that I thought was the access road. This was probably used by the construction workers, so as not to mess up the intended future lawn. According to Kevkon's photo, there is another road even farther east of the lane I'm thinking was the 'access' road. Apparently, Featherbed Lane, off the Hopewell/Hertsville Road, actually curves to the north before it then turns west onto the Lindbergh property. I thought it was a straight shot off Hopewell/Hertsville. Very confusing. Where, exactly, was the phantom car spotted? And, the footprints! So, they only led AWAY from the house. Featherbed Lane is straight acrossed. It runs west to east connecting Hopewell-Amwell Road to Wertzville-Hopewell Road south of the where the Private Lane intersects with Hopewell-Amwell. It's about 3/4 miles south of Highfields, but the Private Lane and Featherbed Lane get closer as they both approach Hopewell-Amwell. In Kevin's picture it's intersection into Hopewell-Amwell road can barely be seen. Also, there were many "access roads" on the property zig-zagging and intersecting with the Private Lane. The Private Lane also ran about 3/4 of a mile from the home to Hopewell-Amwell Road. No access road, that I could tell, ever came close to Featherbed Lane so nothing on the property was connected to it. The Conovers saw a car enter Featherbed Lane from Hopewell-Amwell. This sighting, along with the access road being referred to as "Featherbed Road" is what created a scenario for one to morph into the other causing them both to be confused with one another when they actually were two totally different roads. So I believe the Conover's saw a car connected to the crime, but this car had probably past the Private Lane and was using Featherbed Lane to turn around on.
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Post by stella7 on Mar 6, 2015 22:15:02 GMT -5
Currently, Featherbed Lane dead ends off of Hopewell-Wertzville, did it ever go through to Hopewell- Amwell?
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Post by xjd on Mar 7, 2015 1:01:36 GMT -5
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Post by lightningjew on Mar 7, 2015 1:10:09 GMT -5
Stella, Featherbed Ln. used to cut through
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Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2015 8:16:55 GMT -5
Currently, Featherbed Lane dead ends off of Hopewell-Wertzville, did it ever go through to Hopewell- Amwell? LJ is right....sort of. From what I've read it was one of those back country roads that wasn't maintained. So while it existed straight through, it could be "impassable" in places. My Grandfather told me they blocked the road off from the other side after the Kidnapping to keep the Curiosity Seekers and Reporters from making the attempt. I've never seen that anywhere in writing, however, he was a Trooper in '41 so what he told me not only seems creditable it makes sense.
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Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2015 8:22:25 GMT -5
i'm not by any means firmly convinced the child was stashed there , but (as Miss Marple would say) it's "another thing that has got to be explained". I agree it's one of those items that hasn't been properly explained. I've "let it go" because I could never come up with anything myself. At the very least your idea could re-ignite the discussion.
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Post by stella7 on Mar 7, 2015 8:39:10 GMT -5
My brother-in-law used to live on that end of Featherbed La. and my nephew would walk people in the woods over to Highfields. I think they mentioned that part of the road was abandoned. Michael, was your grandfather a trooper with the NJSP?
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Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2015 11:10:00 GMT -5
My brother-in-law used to live on that end of Featherbed La. and my nephew would walk people in the woods over to Highfields. I think they mentioned that part of the road was abandoned. On the day I took soil samples for Liz, in 2005 (?), I walked the entire length of Featherbed Lane. I also walked from Featherbed Lane to Highfields, and from Highfields down the Private Lane then from the Lane down Hopewell-Amwell Road to the beginning of Featherbed. There were Salamander Preserve Ponds closest to the Wertzville Road section not far from where the guardrail was put up. Michael, was your grandfather a trooper with the NJSP? Yes in 1941. He used to tell me "who said what" to him although I only remember a few names, but I do know he knew and/or spoke with many who were involved, and it's a shame I didn't know then what I know now.
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Post by rebekah on Mar 7, 2015 23:07:44 GMT -5
Hi Rebekah, I'm not sure if it would've been possible for Anne to have actually heard anything. She could've imagined it, but she seemed pretty consistent in her accounts of hearing tires on gravel around 8pm, thinking it was Lindbergh, who didn't arrive home for another 20-25 minutes. I don't think she imagined the sound, LJ. I think she was listening for her husband to come home, and actually heard the tires on the gravel. What I'm thinking is that the car was right outside the house in the driveway. She stated that she was in the living room at her desk, if I'm not mistaken. The living room was at the back of the house, on the south side. I'm thinking that someone was out there at 8:00. Who was it, and just what were they doing? Did they have that ladder with them? Just speculating here, but I think she was hearing the arrival of one or more of the perps. I've never doubted that she heard what she said she heard.
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Post by rebekah on Mar 7, 2015 23:35:36 GMT -5
"I walked the entire length of Featherbed Lane. I also walked from Featherbed Lane to Highfields, and from Highfields down the Private Lane then from the Lane down Hopewell-Amwell Road to the beginning of Featherbed." -- Michael I've spent the last hour studying the Google Maps. I was surprised to find a Featherbed Lane off the Hopewell-Amwell Road. No wonder it's so confusing. The Featherbed Lane I'm thinking of dead ends off the Hopewell-Hertsville Road and is southwest of the Lindbergh property. Back in 1932, the area was almost open field. As the crow flies today, it ends about 4/5 of a mile from the house, maybe even closer. It looks like Kevkon's map is labeling this portion as the access road. Can you clear this up for me a bit? Also, the car seen by the Conovers was on the Featherbed Lane off Hopewell-Amwell, is that correct? Hi, Stella. Which Featherbed did your brother-in-law live on? There is still a house right there at the end of the Lane. (Hopewell-Hertsville, that is. )
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Post by Michael on Mar 8, 2015 0:02:22 GMT -5
I've spent the last hour studying the Google Maps. I was surprised to find a Featherbed Lane off the Hopewell-Amwell Road. No wonder it's so confusing. The Featherbed Lane I'm thinking of dead ends off the Hopewell-Hertsville Road and is southwest of the Lindbergh property. Back in 1932, the area was almost open field. As the crow flies today, it ends about 4/5 of a mile from the house, maybe even closer. It looks like Kevkon's map is labeling this portion as the access road. Can you clear this up for me a bit? Also, the car seen by the Conovers was on the Featherbed Lane off Hopewell-Amwell, is that correct? Back in '32 it didn't "dead end" in the field this way, and it actually went straight across although it had been seriously neglected as evidenced by that car having trouble in the mud. Here it is now showing it south of Highfields which isn't on the map because it's located on the Hunterdon County side. The Access Road that Kevin has outlined on his map curls back toward and eventually runs into the Private Lane very near it's entrance off of Hopewell-Amwell Road. To make matters worse, many Reporters and Cops referred to that road as Hopewell-Wertzville Road so it's important to not only know the roads but to figure out if they are calling the road by it's right name. H-W Road runs on the West Side and H-A Road runs on the East. Featherbed Lane connected these two roads almost a mile south of the Private Lane. And the various access roads on the property zigged and zagged but on the Hunterdon County side of the property. Again, early on both Police and Reporters were referring to the Access Road near the house as "Featherbed Road" which is what caused all the confusion. www.hopewelltwp.org/tax-maps/sht-000.pdfHere is the historic version which shows Featherbed Lane running the distance and not dead-ending: www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/20055/Hopewell+Township/
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Post by lightningjew on Mar 8, 2015 0:35:13 GMT -5
Hey Rebekah, Though I've heard reports of Anne having hearing issues, I too tend to believe she did indeed hear that tire sound a few minutes after 8pm, just as she said. But rather than someone arriving, what I think she heard was the kidnappers leaving with the body. Now, why would this have happened around 8pm? Well, first, there's just too much going on here for it not to be some kind of inside job. As I've said, how do you get into the upper window of a house that you've supposedly never been in before, launching yourself over a chest and into a dark room, without disturbing anything in the room, waking up your target, making any noise and alerting the house? So I think someone let the kidnappers in, and that it was at a very specific time. First, CAL Jr.'s bedtime was 7:30-8pm, and there were standing orders to the household that the nursery was not to be entered till 10pm (ostensibly so CAL Jr. wouldn't be coddled and would just cry himself back to sleep should he wake up). This leaves 2-2.5 hours where CAL Jr. is vulnerable and unguarded, and it makes sense to strike as early as possible within that (literal and figurative) window, to maximize getaway time: CAL Jr. is put down at 7:30, give him some time to fall asleep, then go in at 8pm. Anne hears a car a few minutes later. There are then two full hours before the crime will be discovered and the police have to be notified--plenty of time for the perps to get back to NYC and out of sight. Now, how could the kidnappers know that CAL Jr. was asleep and that he wouldn't wake up? I think he was drugged. I think the key to this is that drugstore pit-stop Betty made earlier that day, when she was driven to Hopewell. She said it was to buy candy, but that rings a bit false to me...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:26:54 GMT -5
xjd, Thanks for the link to the garage picture. Nice find! I have to admit ever since you made your first post about Charlie being buried under Hauptmann's garage floor, you have caused me to really give consideration to Hauptmann actually being involved with more than just the extortion of the ransom. It is an angle I have not spent enough time looking into but I should if I am going to look at all possible scenarios from a neutral position. Hauptmann was unknown to law enforcement in America; no criminal history in this country. Just the type of person who would be utilized for such a crime. I guess what has really kept me from looking seriously at him being in this right at Hopewell the night of the kidnapping is the death of Charlie. I have real trouble seeing him as the killer of Charlie. Something I have to work on. Otherwise he certainly could be involved with all the other aspects of this crime. Whoever picked Hauptmann for participation knew him or was assured that Hauptmann was not the type to "talk" or break under pressure. He would remain silent about anything he did or knew about the crime. Even though he was offered a large sum of money that would have helped his family, or a commuted sentence to life in prison, he said nothing. Here is a link to a newspaper article about Hauptmann's determination to not talk. news.google.com/newspapers?id=VU5QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QA0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4068%2C2178033
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Post by Michael on Mar 8, 2015 9:50:38 GMT -5
Turrou also just happened to be the officer who found $14,000 of the Lindbergh ransom money hidden in Bruno Hauptmann's garage and talked Bruno into giving samples of his handwriting.
According to Turrou, Hauptmann, shortly after his arrest, indicated to him that if a deal for leniency could be struck, he might confess. No confession transpired, but the money along with a number of other incriminating factors led to Hauptmann's conviction and eventual execution by electric chair.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 10:36:14 GMT -5
So Hauptmann was even offered leniency early in the investigation but didn't confess. It just underscores from the get-go that he was not going to say anything...ever.
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Post by Michael on Mar 8, 2015 12:32:32 GMT -5
So Hauptmann was even offered leniency early in the investigation but didn't confess. It just underscores from the get-go that he was not going to say anything...ever. No. According to Turrou in a couple of different sources, he claimed that Hauptmann was fishing to see if he confessed what kind of deal he could get. Turrou told him that he did not have any authority to offer him anything so Hauptmann "clammed up." The problem I have with these accounts is this: while I consider Turrou a legitimate source, I can't help but wonder why this extremely valuable piece of information wasn't in his book. I also wonder why it took HRO's claim for this information from him to come out. So while I am not saying it didn't happen, there's a little bit of hesitancy, on my end at least, to completely commit to it - but it's definitely something to consider nevertheless.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 13:25:00 GMT -5
So Turrou didn't offer the leniency. When I read that article you posted, I wondered how Turrou had the authority to make such an offer.
I have always thought that Hauptmann didn't confess because he was protecting someone close to him; perhaps Anna and Mannfred, or Hans Mueller, or I have even considered Ernest Schoeffler.
The promises made by Lindbergh and Condon to not pursue the kidnappers was something else I have considered. Could Hauptmann have believed if he didn't confess anything he might somehow be acquitted?
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Post by xjd on Mar 8, 2015 15:46:04 GMT -5
amy35, i know what you mean. it just doesn't seem in Richard's nature to be a killer. a desperate man, who would steal, hold up others especially when he himself was starving, that i believe. a guy that wanted a better life and would probably scam the dead friend who scammed him, i believe that too. a get-rich-quick guy who bought hot money, again i can see that. of course, there may be other crimes we don't know anything about, these are just the ones he was caught for. i too agree that Richard definitely built the ladder, but a few other questions i have about his involvement a)is the amount of ransom money found in his possession a believable amount for "just" building the ladder? they found about what, a third to a quarter of the money in the garage? yes, even merely supplying the ladder makes him an accessory, but to me it's too much money for something that could have been procured elsewhere. but then, i'm not fluent with the going rate for crimes b)was he paid for supplying the ladder, being at Highfields (holding ladder, entering the house, getaway driver, etc) and when (as i believe) the baby died unexpectedly, he offered a way of stashing the body until they could collect the ransom pardon my rambling, but these are things i think about that need to be explained.
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Post by trojanusc on Mar 8, 2015 16:32:22 GMT -5
a)is the amount of ransom money found in his possession a believable amount for "just" building the ladder? they found about what, a third to a quarter of the money in the garage? yes, even merely supplying the ladder makes him an accessory, but to me it's too much money for something that could have been procured elsewhere. but then, i'm not fluent with the going rate for crimes You're forgetting that the Fisch story could be at least partially true, at least in terms of some of those funds belonging to Isidor, even if you remove the somewhat silly circumstances Hauptmann described. The money did appear to have been wet at one point, which lends some credibility to this story. Along with the pretty reliable testimony of Fisch giving Hauptmann a shoebox. It seems like Hauptmann could have been prepaid for his part of the deal in the months prior to the kidnapping, which explains for some of his behavior and changes in spending. Lending some credence to this is that the soil samples tend to point towards the ladder being used or tested near Fisch's apartment, rather than at Hauptmann's.
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Post by xjd on Mar 8, 2015 19:12:53 GMT -5
good points, tro'. absolutely Fisch is involved, and i could see where BRH's attitude could be well, with Isadore dead and gone he won't miss the money and he DID scam me.
do we know how tall Isadore Fisch was? as compared to Cemetery John. i always imagine him being scrawny because he was so sickly, but that one photo of him relaxing on the island in swim clothes etc. makes him look more robust. and with that hacking cough of his, would it have been safe for him to be anywhere near that house?
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Post by trojanusc on Mar 8, 2015 20:42:45 GMT -5
good points, tro'. absolutely Fisch is involved, and i could see where BRH's attitude could be well, with Isadore dead and gone he won't miss the money and he DID scam me. do we know how tall Isadore Fisch was? as compared to Cemetery John. i always imagine him being scrawny because he was so sickly, but that one photo of him relaxing on the island in swim clothes etc. makes him look more robust. and with that hacking cough of his, would it have been safe for him to be anywhere near that house? Who knows. Michael probably has his own thoughts on this but to me I have a hard time believing Hauptmann was in Hopewell. I'm more unclear about Fisch, though you bring up a good point about the cough. I do feel that at least there was some local connection to the whole thing. The house is so remote and there is so much knowledge that needs to happen about getting to the house, access roads, etc. that without the local "guide" the whole thing is much harder to pull off. Especially when you figure out there were zero footprints heading towards the nursery. They managed to stay on the boardwalk, which even Anne was unable to do in broad daylight (if you believe her testimony). Too many people look at Hauptmann and try to fit him into all the pieces in this puzzle. This might be the easy way out but one that is certain to lead to failure. For me, it's way better to take a step back from the "official narrative" and look at the case for what it actually is, then the whole thing becomes even more suspicious. From there, you can try to sort all the pieces: A toddler is missing from a nursery in an extremely remote house, but no fingerprints are present on the window sill, latches or any other area in which they should be present. Items present in the window area haven't been touched. The entire room is undisturbed, even though the whole space is essentially an obstacle course (dining set, toys, wind screen, etc). A few token mud smudges are found in the room but none indicate a serious path of travel, as should be the case with the condition of the dirt outside. Conveniently the kidnapping takes place during the brief period the child is not to be disturbed. Oddly, however, this is the period where most people are home and awake, not to mention it is pitch black outside in a torrential rainstorm. True "blind" kidnappers would probably choose the post-midnight hours, when everyone in the house is asleep and they probably wouldn't be discovered for hours. Separately from all of this, you have the fact these kidnappers knew exactly where to go (even the police had trouble finding the house), left no footprints approaching the nursery, made a beeline to the one unlocked window of over two dozen and left undetected. Even the dog famed for always barking at everything did nothing. Then perhaps the biggest red flag, it was on a night the child was never supposed to be there. It was truly a Mission: Impossible style operation. If all of this were to happen today, the police would pretty much assume this was an inside job from the get go and not relent until they put it all together. In this case, they couldn't pursue the most obvious line of investigation due to being stonewalled by Lindbergh, so they were forced to look at alternatives which largely led nowhere. Assembling all the facts of the Hopewell crime, not one aspect says "home invasion" except the ladder and the note. The placement of these two objects, to me, are very indicative of the perpetrators goal: to create the illusion that this disappearance was a kidnapping and redirect investigators from the true method (and reason) in which the child left the house. If this were not the case, why drop the ladder in literally the most conspicuous place possible, as opposed to leaving it against the house where no one would see it for hours? More than likely the ladder was actually used to create the imprints below the window and plant the note. After all, a chunk of dirt was found on top of the shudder. Even if you don't think Lindbergh at all guilty (getting past a serious non-biased study of his behavior will take a lot of work), it is pretty much impossible for this whole thing to have gone down without some knowledge, and more likely full cooperation, from someone on the inside.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 20:59:47 GMT -5
good points, tro'. absolutely Fisch is involved, and i could see where BRH's attitude could be well, with Isadore dead and gone he won't miss the money and he DID scam me. do we know how tall Isadore Fisch was? as compared to Cemetery John. i always imagine him being scrawny because he was so sickly, but that one photo of him relaxing on the island in swim clothes etc. makes him look more robust. and with that hacking cough of his, would it have been safe for him to be anywhere near that house? Both Lloyd Gardner and Ludovic Kennedy say in their books that Fisch was 5 ft 5 inches tall. I think trying to claim that kidnap ladder would have been difficult for him, plus the coughing is an issue too. Condon does say that at Woodlawn Cemetery CJ had a serious cough so I always keep Fisch in the mix of people involved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 21:08:37 GMT -5
So Hauptmann was even offered leniency early in the investigation but didn't confess. It just underscores from the get-go that he was not going to say anything...ever. No. According to Turrou in a couple of different sources, he claimed that Hauptmann was fishing to see if he confessed what kind of deal he could get. Turrou told him that he did not have any authority to offer him anything so Hauptmann "clammed up." The problem I have with these accounts is this: while I consider Turrou a legitimate source, I can't help but wonder why this extremely valuable piece of information wasn't in his book. I also wonder why it took HRO's claim for this information from him to come out. So while I am not saying it didn't happen, there's a little bit of hesitancy, on my end at least, to completely commit to it - but it's definitely something to consider nevertheless. Since you brought up Turrou I would like to ask you about him. I have read that Turrou thought Hauptmann guilty during the investigation. Then when Gov. Hoffman reopened the investigation he no longer thought that Hauptmann was guilty and assisted with Hoffman's investigation into the crime. Do you know why Turrou changed his mind about Hauptmann?
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Post by trojanusc on Mar 9, 2015 4:32:42 GMT -5
Condon does say that at Woodlawn Cemetery CJ had a serious cough so I always keep Fisch in the mix of people involved. Personally, I think Fisch is likely CJ. Having said that, it depends which version of CJ do you want to picture. Yes it's true that Condon said Fisch had a "hacking cough" but he also said that CJ had that "fleshy lump" on his thumb. These traits vanished at the second meeting, though, with the cough never to return and the thumb lump forgotten about until Hauptmann's arrest. Conveniently, this rare finger deformity was an easy way to exclude someone from being Cemetery John, as Condon tried do with BRH until he was threatened with arrest himself. Most lies start with some kernel of truth and expand from there. Perhaps the hacking cough was a real thing that was included in his story. Condon probably figured that he could add enough other random details (Scandinavian, fleshy lump, etc) in which would eventually exclude Fisch, if ever caught.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 10:33:14 GMT -5
good points, tro'. absolutely Fisch is involved, and i could see where BRH's attitude could be well, with Isadore dead and gone he won't miss the money and he DID scam me. do we know how tall Isadore Fisch was? as compared to Cemetery John. i always imagine him being scrawny because he was so sickly, but that one photo of him relaxing on the island in swim clothes etc. makes him look more robust. and with that hacking cough of his, would it have been safe for him to be anywhere near that house? xjd, What photo is this that you mention of Fisch? I must not have seen it. Do you know where I might find it? Who is in the photo with him?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 11:04:45 GMT -5
Condon does say that at Woodlawn Cemetery CJ had a serious cough so I always keep Fisch in the mix of people involved. Personally, I think Fisch is likely CJ. Having said that, it depends which version of CJ do you want to picture. Yes it's true that Condon said Fisch had a "hacking cough" but he also said that CJ had that "fleshy lump" on his thumb. These traits vanished at the second meeting, though, with the cough never to return and the thumb lump forgotten about until Hauptmann's arrest. Conveniently, this rare finger deformity was an easy way to exclude someone from being Cemetery John, as Condon tried do with BRH until he was threatened with arrest himself. Most lies start with some kernel of truth and expand from there. Perhaps the hacking cough was a real thing that was included in his story. Condon probably figured that he could add enough other random details (Scandinavian, fleshy lump, etc) in which would eventually exclude Fisch, if ever caught. It sounds to me like the CJ on the bench in Van Cortlandt Park who talked with Condon for over an hour could have been Fisch. I think the man Condon spoke to at St. Raymonds was the man who gave Perrone the letter to deliver to Condon's home on March 12, 1932. I feel there is more than one person involved with the negotiations just like there was more than one person at the Hopewell house on March 1, 1932. I agree most lies start with a truth involved. This case has so many lies being told and so much spin being put onto things it is very hard to extricate that kernal of truth, especially when it comes to Condon. I really feel that Condon's job was to be a shield and a financial facilitator for the perps. How do you see Hauptmann's role in this crime?
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