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Post by Michael on Sept 4, 2006 14:25:08 GMT -5
I've always found it interesting to discover what those close to the investigation felt, and did during their roles. Here are some things from Salvy Spitale that I thought were worth sharing: People vs. John Doe (Grand Jury Testimony p. 17) Q: (Breslin) How many times would you say you were to the home out in Hopewell?A: About three times.Q: Did you at any time question the servants at the Lindbergh home?A: The only fellow I questioned was Johnson. I questioned him after I gave up hopes of getting contact with the Underworld. I interviewed him.Q: What did Johnson have to say to you?A: He said, "If I knew I would tell the police". I said, "Let me know somebody you know and let them come and talk to me and find out I am reliable. I don't want any information from you". He said, "I don't know nothing".Q: From your contact with this case, what is your opinion about this job - do you think it is an inside job or outside job?A: Inside job.Q: I suppose when you went out to Hopewell, you looked over the land?A: I would not take a baby, or even bother, knowing Lindbergh had guards on his property.Q: You don't think any organized mob would tackle a job like that?A: I don't think any professional kidnapper would tackle a job like that.Q: I am just asking your opinion as a man of experience?A: I have no experience in the kidnapping business.Q: Your acquaintance with the Underworld?A: Never had acquaintance with kidnappers. Q: (By Juror) Are there gangs who steal babies like that, or is this an exception?A: My opinion is that someone connected with one of the help around the place knows something about it. I could take them by the neck. If I got the baby I would shoot the man I got the baby from. I would have to know who they are and who their friends are.Q: In other words, you would not have given up the money unless you know who the people were who were getting it?A: Yes, or who their friends are.Q: (By Juror) How did the Underworld feel about this whole thing?A: They all felt like I did -- no room for such people.Q: Did I understand you to say that the first time you went to meet Colonel Breckenridge, after Rosner brought you into the case, that they had $70,000 ready?A: Yes, and I told them they would be taken for it.Q: Did any of these communications you received bear any symbol similar to that on the original letter?A: No, just plain letters; mostly no signatures.Q: (By Juror) Did you see the original ransom note?A: I saw the one Rosner had.Q: Do you think Dr. Condon was in touch with the kidnappers?A: I don't know. I always told Colonel Breckenridge I thought Dr. Condon was a little off.Q: Did you ever meet Dr. Condon?A: No.
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Post by Michael on Jun 23, 2008 8:10:01 GMT -5
Spitale is living at the Franconia Hotel on 72nd St. N.Y.C. Room 1117, under the name of Salvini. Rosner put the finger on Bitz in Manney's Restaurant on Forsyth St. for a violation of the Sullivan Law and at the present time there is no great love lost between the two. ( Report #8, Page #6)[/blockquote] [Det. George Foster, Bergen County Police, 1-24-36]
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Post by Michael on Jun 19, 2011 10:46:32 GMT -5
Spitale Extortion Letter Report: Attachments:
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Post by feathers on Jan 12, 2015 21:30:05 GMT -5
There is something I thought might be worth clarifying, and that is who exactly was Salvatore Spitale? There seems to be a big difference in opinion among authors as to Spitale's actual status in the underworld in 1932. I won't quote them all, but the descriptions range from small-time conman to powerhouse of the underworld.
Thayer referred to Spitale as the head of the Sicilians; Rosner seems to imply he is the head of the "Unione Siciliana" (which while not the same thing as the mafia was often used as a synonym by the general public). Neither of these statements are remotely accurate.
Recall that the mafia in 1932 had just emerged from the very bloody Castellamarese war, with the death of both of the main leaders - Joe the Boss Masseria and Salvatore Maranzano. If anyone was the head of the mafia, "Sicilians" or the "Unione Siciliana" it was Luciano. Ostensibly it was the Commission that was in charge.
My view is that Spitale was a fairly high level leader able to meet Madden or others as a peer, if not an equal. Spitale was involved in international drug dealing with Legs Diamond (and is generally thought to be behind Diamond's murder) and was partners with Vannie Higgins in bootlegging. But he was far from the dominant force in the mafia.
Among organized crime historians Spitale does not fit easily into the Five Families - not everyone does - Joe Adonis is a good example. I have my own views on where he falls which I can elaborate on if anyone is interested.
But my point is really that Spitale's name recognition factor among New York criminals would be sufficient to gain an entrée to talk to many people and might put the fear of God into certain people, but among the general public (and amateur kidnappers) it would be unlikely they ever heard of him.
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Post by Michael on Jan 13, 2015 6:20:19 GMT -5
Among organized crime historians Spitale does not fit easily into the Five Families - not everyone does - Joe Adonis is a good example. I have my own views on where he falls which I can elaborate on if anyone is interested. I certainly am. Please share when you get a chance...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 9:50:44 GMT -5
I would certainly be interested in what you can share about Spitale and any of the other underworld figures who were brought into this crime.
All the books I have read say that Spitale was brought in by Mickey Rosner, who was brought to Breckinridges's attention by Thayer through Col. Donovan who had Congresswoman Ruth Pratt suggest Rosner to him.
Do you have any thoughts as to why from the beginning it was assumed that the mob was responsible for the kidnapping of Charlie? The homemade ladder and the ransom note (no threats to the child's life) don't suggest underworld involvement to me.
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 13, 2015 13:28:14 GMT -5
the best mob book I read, was "gangster city" by pat downey. he has a chapter on bitz and spitale very informative on there dealings including being involved in this case
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Post by feathers on Jan 13, 2015 20:43:29 GMT -5
Yes, "Gangster City" has an excellent section on Spitale and Bitz. Downey also wrote a book on Legs Diamond which commented further on Spitale and Bitz.
I will post my own notes once I locate them.
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 13, 2015 22:09:06 GMT -5
thanks
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Post by hurtelable on Jan 14, 2015 12:46:45 GMT -5
On the issue of how prominent Spitale and Bitz were in organized crime:
FWIW, "Blood and Power," by Stephen Fox, is a comprehensive history of organized crime in the United States the twentieth century, over 400 pages in the paperback edition published in 1989. But neither Spitale nor Bitz are mentioned at all. Owney Madden is discussed quite extensively, Legs Diamond to a lesser extent. Geographically speaking, Chicago, not New York, would have been considered the "mob capital" of the country in 1932.
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Post by feathers on Jan 14, 2015 22:11:03 GMT -5
That is an excellent point. For ostensible bigwigs in the world of crime, they are reduced to at best footnotes in organized crime history. Before I get back to Spitale, I wanted to point out that there is some really good material on Bitz available. I apologize if everyone is already aware of this but Irving Halpern, Chief Parole Officer in NYC did a report called "A statistical study of the distribution of adult and juvenile delinquents in the boroughs of Manhattan and Brooklyn, New York City", in which he presents as a case study Bitz's file. It appears at pages 131-153. The report is available for free on www.hathitrust.org. Halpern changes Bitz's name to "Irving Solomon" and Spitale's name to "Salvatore Sorrento" but apart from the name changes it is a detailed account of Bitz's history, and by association, Spitale's.
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Post by Michael on Jan 15, 2015 17:15:30 GMT -5
"Irving Bitz attempting to shield his face from photographer as he and a detective go up stairs"
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Post by feathers on Jan 19, 2015 22:21:28 GMT -5
Ok, here are my thoughts on Salvatore Spitale.
First of all, Spitale was in fact Sicilian - more specifically from Palermo. This is significant because many of the mafia families formed around emigrants from specific parts of Sicily.
He emigrated to the US at age 6 in 1903 and went to live with his uncle Vincent D'Antonio who operated a saloon at 123 1/2 Chrystie Street. He had two brothers, Guy and Joe, both of whom followed him into at least bootlegging, if not other crimes.
This neighbourhood was in the Lower East Side in territory of gangs such as those led by Monk Eastman, Dopey Benny Fein, Kid Dropper and Little Augie Orgen (See Asbury, Gangs of New York). At the same time, the mafia family of mostly Palermittani, led by Ignazio the Wolf (later Toto D'Aquila, Vincent Mangano, Albert Anastasia and ultimately Carlo Gambino) was also present in nearby Little Italy (see Mike Dash, the First Family).
The FBI report claimed that Spitale "graduated to the gang that operated around Grand Street". This would be the Fein-Dropper-Orgen gang.
In 1914, Spitale received his only conviction - a burglary charge that was reduced to "unlawful entry". He was given a suspended sentence.
Even as late at 1918, when Spitale joined the navy and 1919 when he was honourably discharged, he was still living in the neighbourhood. He was naturalized as a result of his military service.
We know from Halpern that Bitz was running drugs for Spitale when he was arrested in 1926 and that the gang headquarters was on Forsythe Street, not far from Chrystie Street and still within the territory of the Lower East Side gangs.
In 1927, Little Augie Orgen was killed in a shooting that also wounded Legs Diamond who was with him at the time. Bitz was known to be associated with Orgen.
It has also been claimed that Bitz was associated with Lepke Buchalter (who took over Orgen's gang).
In 1928, Spitale was arrested with a number of gang members from Jack "Legs" Diamond's gang. Also arrested was Salvatore Arcidiaco, a long time Spitale friend and dope peddler. Arcidiaco would later be associated with the Lucchese family. Bitz was also associated with Diamond. Dutch Schultz was once part of Diamond's gang as well. Lucky Luciano also had ties to Diamond.
In 1931, Spitale and Bitz had been involved in a gun battle with police on the Brooklyn waterfront and were arrested with a large number of Vannie Higgins' gang members. It was this charge that was dismissed shortly after Spitale and Bitz were announced as Lindbergh's intermediaries.
Also in 1931, Legs Diamond was killed. Spitale and Bitz are generally credited with this hit, as well as an earlier attempt on Diamond, supposedly in retaliation for refusing to return a large sum of money given to Diamond for a botched drug buying operation in Europe.
Newspapers claimed that Spitale was a member of the Ciro Terranova family (in East Harlem) and the Rock mob (Joe and John Rock, bootleggers in the Bronx who were squeezed out by Dutch Schultz in 1928)
Bitz was said to be associated with Dutch Schultz and Mad Dog Coll. If so, Bitz may have followed Coll's defection from the Schultz gang. In February 1932, Mad Dog Coll was killed.
It is worthy of note that the FBI report states that Thayer eavesdropped on a call between Rosner and Madden in which Madden was angry that Spitale and Bitz had been brought in.
In April 1932, Spitale was arrested on one of Vannie Higgins' boats in New Jersey. In June 1932, Vannie Higgins was killed after attending a children's recital - Spitale and Bitz had also been at the recital and left earlier. Spitale freely admitted being involved in bootlegging with Higgins.
Writing in 1932, Dennis Tilden Lynch, NY journalist, claimed that Spitale was a rival of Masseria for leadership of the "Unione Siciliana".
In summer 1933, Spitale was reported to be associating with Waxey Gordon's gang.
The FBI report claimed that Spitale "occupies a place just below that of the more important racketeers".
What does all of this amount to? There is ample evidence that Spitale was closely associated with Little Augie Orgen, Legs Diamond and Vannie Higgins.
With respect to mafia involvement, despite contemporary beliefs, it does not appear that Spitale was an actual member of the mafia (he was a "friend of mine" rather than a "friend of ours"). Just because he was Sicilian, we should not make the assumption he was in the mafia. Despite Lynch's claim, it does not appear he had any role in the Castellamare war that enveloped the five families 1930-1931.
He was probably closest to the Mangano family, which was mostly composed of emigrants from Palermo and which dominated his home neighbourhood. It is unlikely he had any association with Ciro Terranova who was associated with Dutch Schultz. The latter was an enemy of Vannie Higgins and the Rock brothers.
Geographically it appears that Spitale had strong ties to the Lower East Side, with operations in Brooklyn (through Higgins), the Bronx (through the Rock brothers), and in the Catskills.
Those are just my inferences however so feel free to challenge them!
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Post by romeo12 on Jan 20, 2015 10:33:40 GMT -5
what really interests me about bitz, he was murdered in his 80s floating in a box off staten island. thanks to sue Campbell, she found out he lived about 3 towns over from me here on long island at the time
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Post by feathers on Jan 20, 2015 19:31:48 GMT -5
A few quick further notes:
(1) I corrected the above to remove the part about Higgins and Madden being enemies. Although some secondary sources say this, I am not satisfied the evidence is sufficient for this conclusion.
(2) The FBN file states that Spitale is a "trusted member of the Mafia". That said, without further evidence, I will stick with my conclusions for now.
(3) Bitz was said to have attended the 1929 Atlantic City Conference in the company of Waxey Gordon, as a member of the Philadelphia contingent. There is no record of Spitale attending.
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Post by Michael on Jan 21, 2015 20:01:40 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the FBI Report on Costello that I know I have. If or when I stumble upon it I will be sure to post it. I did want to post an interesting report concerning Spitale to see if you had any idea what this was all about (also posted above in this thread): Attachment Deleted Also, I found something written by George Clarke (Clarke was the City Editor of the Daily Mirror): Salvy Spitale, Irving Bitz, Waxey Gordon executioners, leaders with Vanny Higgins of the principal rum smuggling mob operating off the Long Island and New Jersey coast. They were brought in by Rosner for an unexplained reason and to the disgust and expressed concern of Madden, who resented their intrusion and so stated.
Spitale and Bitz were notorious as blood hounds for Waxey Gordon, and as such accounted for the demise of "Legs" Diamond, when he refused to return $50,000 to Gordon.He goes on to say they were also associated with the Lillien brothers, Longy Zwilman, Maxey Greenberg, and Maxey Hassel. One thing for sure about Clarke is that he had some sort of relationship with Waxey Gordon because when he called him up to speak to him about the Lindbergh Case, Gordon told him to "come up my house." Clarke then simply drove over to 920 West End Ave where he was met by the Body Guards who ushered him into his apartment. It's something I see alot in the source documentation where certain Reporters would have this kind of relationship with Mob figures.
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Post by feathers on Jan 21, 2015 22:30:44 GMT -5
The report is very interesting. Horace S. Maynard II was a wealthy Detroit businessman and the son of a prosecutor/judge.
In January 1931 (Jan 21 to be specific), four men were arrested while trying to kidnap one of Maynard's two young children (ages 11 and 7). The police were tipped off by an informant and were waiting at the Maynard home when the kidnappers arrived. The four men were Kenneth Harrington (former Detroit police officer), George B. Spears (former public accountant in the same building as Maynard), Bernard Adusky and Anthony Orlando. Orlando's wife Lena was also arrested but not charged. The four men confessed and plead guilty.
Shortly after the attempted kidnapping apparently Maynard received extortion letters (as described in the report) signed "James Martin".
"James Martin" was one of Spitale's common aliases. In fact, the charge he was facing at the time of the Lindbergh Kidnapping in 1932 involving the gun battle was in the name James Martin. It was only at the trial that the prosecutors realized that Martin was Spitale.
I don't have anything in my files that shows any connection between the four men and Spitale. All four were unemployed and not thought to be professional criminals.
The Clarke information is also interesting - I don't remember the "Lillien brothers" - I will have to check my files.
Alan Hynd, who described Spitale as a "two watt big shot", claimed that one of Spitale's speakeasies was behind the building housing the NY Daily News and that it was the Daily News who convinced Rosner to involve Spitale, so that the newspaper could have a source inside the investigation. I have seen no evidence to support that claim though.
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Post by Michael on Jan 22, 2015 17:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by stella7 on Feb 7, 2015 20:56:18 GMT -5
A question for those of you on this board that believe Lindbergh was behind his son's kidnapping, do any think that the underworld figures Rosner, Spitale and Bitz were brought on to deter those who pulled off the kidnapping and the ransom payoff from talking?
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Post by Michael on Feb 8, 2015 8:52:49 GMT -5
A question for those of you on this board that believe Lindbergh was behind his son's kidnapping, do any think that the underworld figures Rosner, Spitale and Bitz were brought on to deter those who pulled off the kidnapping and the ransom payoff from talking? If Lindbergh was behind this then I believe bringing in the Mob would seem to be a good move to him. It would demonstrate he believed it was an organized crime committed by Pros, and it might lead to Pros stepping forward to implicate themselves in some way by foolishly trying to collect the ransom. Next, your question also shows the benefit of bringing in some "Gorillas", and as an example, Owney Madden was used for that purpose specifically to scare the hell out of the Birritellas. Unfortunately, what Lindbergh probably did not realize is that the "Underworld" despised "baby killers" and had absolutely zero tolerance for a group who would kidnap a child. Once this proved to be a failure, I think this lesson would next bring in a blow-hard and master of misdirection - like Jafsie.
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Post by romeo12 on Feb 8, 2015 17:36:10 GMT -5
theres no rpoof that Lindbergh was involved any real researcher I met on this case never believed it. this stuff he wanted his baby dead because he was sick or deformed is nonsense
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Post by lightningjew on Feb 8, 2015 18:09:55 GMT -5
You know, you keep saying that, but that's really all you say on the subject. And while there's certainly no smoking gun proof, what makes you so sure the idea can be completely dismissed? After all, Lloyd Gardner's a pretty serious researcher and he seems to think there's something to the idea.
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Post by romeo12 on Feb 8, 2015 18:50:17 GMT -5
well there were many serious researchers before gardner and when I was out and about listening to live debates on the case, researchers told me they didn't believe it and I don't either. I met gardner and I find it hard to believe he would believe it unless he wants to make money from a new book
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Post by lightningjew on Feb 8, 2015 19:31:32 GMT -5
Absolutely right. There were indeed many researchers before Gardner who did great work on this case. In all honesty and sincerity, I could not agree with you more here, and, for what it's worth, I fully appreciate and acknowledge them all. But my point--and I make it in all respect--is that other researchers do come along and find new information. It's an evolving process, on any subject. Let me say, for years, I completely wrote off Lindbergh as a suspect. But I have since changed my views on this. That being said, I freely admit that I may find something at some point to refute this. If I do--if my views evolve or move away from this theory--I will admit it and go back to the proverbial drawingboard. Until then, I have listened to and mulled over the ideas suggested by people like Michael and Lloyd Gardner--two of the foremost experts on the case--both of whom seem to think Lindbergh's involvement is a strong and valid possibility. (Gardner has written an epilogue to a new edition of his book, putting a very similar theory out there). All this being the case, I can't just shrug off the theory as I once did. For me, for now, so much falls into place if it's accepted as a working hypothesis.
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Post by romeo12 on Feb 8, 2015 20:04:45 GMT -5
there are other experts on the case besides them. I don't always agree with mike but I respect his dedication of research in this case. I stepped away from this case but dabble in it for time to time. after you leave you forget a lot of things and forget the documents and stuff you obtained through the years. I notice when conspiracy theory people speak out Lindbergh is the prime suspect
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Post by lightningjew on Feb 8, 2015 22:01:56 GMT -5
There are absolutely other experts in the case, and I don't take anything anyone says as absolute gospel. But being so well-versed, the views of these particular experts carry enormous weight with me. I also look at how their ideas fit into the totality of things, and, when I do, virtually every loose end--almost everything about certain people's actions in this case which never quite made sense--all of the sudden, with this theory, all those things make perfect sense. This is not proof of anything, by any means, but, to me anyway, it's very compelling how it all falls into place using this theory as a working hypothesis. And I am no sucker for conspiracy theories, believe me. As soon as people start getting all Oliver Stone, I just roll my eyes. That being said, that doesn't mean some conspiracies--small, manageable ones--don't occur. I think it goes without saying that they do.
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Post by romeo12 on Feb 8, 2015 22:17:15 GMT -5
I agree, but in this case I heard it all. you can tell with the books that came out through the years, behn saying anns sister did it, monier saying Lindbergh did ir, scaduto saying a bunch of nonsense, and somebody saying anns brother did it. at of all of them im very surprised at behn writing a book like that. I got to meet him before he died
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Post by lightningjew on Feb 9, 2015 2:59:56 GMT -5
That's very cool. As I've said elsewhere, Behn's book was the first one I read on the case, and though I didn't buy his conclusions, I thought the rest of the book was very well done. At any rate, I appreciated how he didn't sensationalize, treating his conclusions as something of an afterthought; with, what sounded to me at least, like a large grain of salt. But whether it's Elisabeth, Dwight Jr., an illigitimate phantom son of Dwight Sr., or Hauptmann as a lone wolf--none of it adds up convincingly when those theories are applied to the body of facts and evidence. If they did, I don't think the case would generate the interest it still does and would just be put to rest. The Lindbergh theory though... As I said, to me, much more aligns with this theory than with anything else. But I freely admit, I could be dead wrong, just seeing what I want to see. By the way, does anyone have a picture of Spitale? The one that's supposedly of him and Bitz, with Bitz hiding behind his hat--the other man in the photo actually isn't Spitale apparently, but rather a detective or something.
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Post by romeo12 on Feb 9, 2015 11:48:36 GMT -5
like i said that picture is in the book "gangster city" and theres a chapter on bitz and spitale
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Post by Michael on Feb 9, 2015 13:41:20 GMT -5
By the way, does anyone have a picture of Spitale? The one that's supposed of him and Bitz, with Bitz hiding behind his hat--the other man in the photo actually isn't Spitale apparently, but rather a detective or something.
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