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Post by aaron on Nov 25, 2021 0:22:12 GMT -5
I should add that John Lister was said to have been extraordinarily cruel to his wife Dorothy. if John were Roland Baker's son-in-law, then Baker would not have tolerated even the sight of him.
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Post by aaron on Nov 26, 2021 21:42:41 GMT -5
Karl Henkel was an unemployed house painter. Richard Hauptmann was an unemployed carpenter. John Lister was an electrician who lost his job with the Central Maine Power Co. According to newspaper accounts, John Lister was " a jobless power comany worker who left for a trip around the world" shortly after after Hauptmann's arrest in 1934. At the time of the hunting trip townfolks in Moscow and Bingham Maine were surprised to see John Lister "so prosperous." He had a new automobile and "plenty of money." So these men were not working? Perhaps not at a regular job, but they must have been engaged in some profitable extra-curricular activities.
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Post by aaron on Nov 26, 2021 21:51:09 GMT -5
Hauptmann was spending money long before the kidnapping. He bought a new car in 1931, took a trip for three months to California with his wife in 1931, so he was not working then and neither was Anna for those three months. OK, so he supposedly was making money on the stock market? Really? In 1931, in the middle of the Great Depression? He learned to use fronts to cover up what he was really doing. The same must have been true for John Lister.
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Post by aaron on Nov 27, 2021 7:45:20 GMT -5
The name of Isidor Fisch is connected to the hunting trip though he did not go with the group to Maine. He knew several of those who did hunt, in addition to Richard Hauptmann. The pelts of the deer may have been brought back and given to him for his fur business--which may have indicated his interest. The pelts would also have made a good covering for any illegal cargo. This is not an innocent bunch of men who were just out to have a good time.
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Post by aaron on Nov 27, 2021 8:21:10 GMT -5
The second hunt "for small animals" was staged in New Jersey where Henkel and Hauptmann take the liquor and sell it to John Chivacky, the brother-in-law of Jimmie Donohue who owned the Black Sea Hotel with its famous bar which served Yankee baseball players. Chivacky lived in Garfield NJ where the hotal was also located. He told Henkel not to bring Hauptmann back, ostensibly because of his personality. Hauptmann may have set his price too high for Chivacky's liking since he has to make something on the deal himself so Chivacky did not want to deal with him again.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 11, 2023 11:09:23 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedThe first picture, found in Lloyd Gardner's "The Case That Never Dies" shows Hauptmann at a party with unnamed friends. The photo is in possession of the New Jersey State Police. The two men sitting in the front ros, center and right, resemble the Lister brothers who took Hauptmann and Henkel on the nunting trip to Maine. No date is attached to he NJP photo. In the hunting photo of Nov. 1932, John Lister is identified as the man on the left, Hauptmann is next, and Earl Lister (guide on the hunting trip) is on Hauptmann's left. The NJ photo is obviously that of a party with guests perhaps a bit tipsy, wives most likely behind the ment. Note that Henkel does not appear in the hunting pictures. He may have been the one taking the photo, and he also may have been the person taking the party picture. John Lister's wife said that Augusta Hile, Henkel's mother, introduced Henkel and John Lister.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 11, 2023 11:13:45 GMT -5
Sorry, the hunting photo was somehow omitted in the previous post.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 12, 2023 10:46:08 GMT -5
Two photos of the hunt in Maine were posted earlier on the board, but I can't seem to find them at this time. I am consistently receiving a message that the Board has reached its limit on attaching photos. Any explanation?
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Post by bernardt on Feb 12, 2023 11:16:07 GMT -5
Two photos of the Maine hunting trip once appeared on the Board and were posted on Imgur as well. No date on the party in Gardner's book? Perhaps they met and planned the hunt at that time. The older woman may be Augusta Hile, a bit tipsy, as say.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 17, 2023 20:57:20 GMT -5
In the Gardner photo of Hauptmann with unidentified guests at a party, the man in front on the left looks resembles Jimmie Donahue, the owner of the Black Sea Hotel in Garfied NJ. His wife, Anna Chivacky Donahue, may be behind him, next to Hauptmann. I have photos of Jimmie Donahue and Anna Chivacky for comparison but am unable to attach them. After the Maine trip in 1932, he and Henkel stayed with Anna's brother, John Chivacky and weht hunting for small game with him. I would like to attach these photos so members of the board could compare them, but the message is that the thread has exhausted its limits.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 18, 2023 6:13:15 GMT -5
Sue posted a photo of Jimmie Donohue and Babe Ruth on the thread "BRH and Friends 10 Months After Kidnapping" on June 26, 2022. Donohue's tavern, the Black Sea Hotel, was a well known watering hole for the New York Yankees.
The photo shown was signed by Babe Ruth and would have been taken a number of years following the party photo in Gardner's "Case that Never Dies." In that photo I suggest that the three men in the front are Jimmie Donohue, John Lister, and Earl Lister. Haptmann went on the hunt to Maine with the Lister brothers and then stayed at the home of John Chivacky. brother-in-law to Jimmie Donohue, in Garfield NJ. The photo may well show the gathering planning the hunting trips. The connection between the Black Sea Hotel and the Lister brothers can be inferred. The hunting trips planned may have been a front for another purpose.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 18, 2023 15:31:05 GMT -5
The photo of the hunting trip can be found on the thread called "Bruno's Hunting Trip." Michael posted it on July 12, 2019 via imgur. The photo shows John Lister (number 2 label) with Hauptmann standing next to him, and Earl standing third in the photo. Earl may be wearing sunglasses. If you can access this photo, you can compare the likenesses of the men in the front row of Gardner's photo, a man resembling John Lister in the center of the photo and one resembling Earl on his left.
Sorry I could not send the two photos, the one of the hunt and the other of Jimmie Donohue but hope that you can access them from the previous threads identified.
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hiram
Detective
Posts: 124
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Post by hiram on Feb 18, 2023 16:13:40 GMT -5
So what can be reasonably inferred from these photos? John Lister, who was from Bingham, Maine, lost his job with the electric company about 1930, possibly because of the Depression. He and his wife then moved where he apparently did some business in New York and Connecticut. His former wife Dorothy indicated that he might be found in Point Chester NY, a strategic spot for a bootlegger. Folks in Maine were surprised to see him driving a "flashy car." It's quite possible that he did bootlegging (rum-running) to make his money in NY and CT. He met Augusta Hile who was housekeepter for an estate in CT. She introduced him to her son Karl Henkel. Hauptmann and Henkel accompanied the Lister brothers on the hunt to Maine and then traveled to the home of John Chivacky in Garfield NJ ostensibly to go on a second hunt for small animals. John Chivacky was brother-in-law to Jimmie Donohue, well known owner of the Back Sea Hotel located on the Passaic River in Garfield. This hotel was known for its sales of liquor during Prohibiton and was raided several times. Donohue appears to have been supplied some of his liquor by John Lister. Hauptmann also appears in the photo, so he would have had knowledge of this business situation and may even have played a part after he met Henkel. It's already been suggested that the two hunts in Maine and Garfield were fronts for the acquisition of liquor in Maine (which had rum-runners since 1880 because of Maine's prohibition) and then carried to New Jersey for sale. The Black Sea Hotel would have been an excellent customer.
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Post by thestonesunturned on Nov 3, 2023 15:18:57 GMT -5
And every one of those rumrunner landing zones would make perfect landing zones for Pastorius-like spy/sabotage insertions. Wouldn't they? And if Hauptmann had camped at the location, or even helped build cabins, etc, he's sure have something of value to offer Nazi intel agents. Wouldn't he? Agents who had tracked him down because he was a known fugitive from German Justice. A fugitive with relatives still "living" in Nazi Germany. "Maybe you could do us--and your family--and your in-laws--and yourself--a favor. Aaaallll you have to do is go on vacation. And make a few stock purchases...."
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