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Post by nowan on Feb 28, 2007 17:56:30 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Feb 28, 2007 19:50:54 GMT -5
Good to see you posting again! It's been well over a year and there has, in my opinion, been a lot of new stuff. I really wouldn't know where to begin but its all on this board.
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Post by Michael on May 30, 2007 21:08:51 GMT -5
Hauptmann's standard handwriting - March 21, 1931
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mairi
Lieutenant
Posts: 548
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Post by mairi on May 30, 2007 22:25:46 GMT -5
Michael~ Something new on Noso? Yippee! I'm INTERESTED!! Also Thanks for the Alex Carrel refs. Also , I didn't know Mark was a piper! Super!!
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Post by Michael on Jun 1, 2007 18:02:11 GMT -5
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Post by Michael on Jul 14, 2008 7:39:04 GMT -5
Here is the letter from Osborn I promised to post. It's been a while so I can't remember who asked me.....
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2009 10:42:48 GMT -5
I wasn't sure where to post this so I chose this spot.... I have seen over the years where the Minister of Dis-information (Allen) has said the paper found in Hauptmann's apartment was the same as the paper used on the ransom notes... I was never sure why he would say this, and usually chalked it up to his imagination - again. And, just so there's no one confused by his position of ignorance expressed as though he is in the know: 3. Comparison of watermarks on questioned notes to control paper taken from Hauptmann's residence.
Preliminary examinations indicate that:
3. The watermarks on the control sheet do not match the ones on the questioned notes. [SFC Tidey, 3-27-1980] Don't take this as a fact he didn't write them just don't believe it matched as a matter of proof he did. Take all facts into consideration when formulating your own personal conclusions - and don't let anyone else mislead you into a decision.
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Post by Michael on Sept 22, 2010 5:54:58 GMT -5
More on Osborn's post Hauptmann conviction theory involving a "Confederate" else reflected in this letter he wrote to Col. Schwarzkopf: Attachments:
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Post by Michael on Feb 18, 2011 11:26:15 GMT -5
Here's something interesting. I figured this was as good a place as any to post it...... Attachments:
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 18, 2011 21:06:13 GMT -5
but we all know snook wasnt a handwriting expert
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Post by Michael on Feb 19, 2011 9:09:31 GMT -5
I think its important to discuss Snook's abilities.... He was in charge of the NJSP "Identification" Bureau at that time. He was trained in Handwriting Identification Techniques but I don't think he was ever qualified as an Expert in handwriting. (He may have been later in his career, I don't know, we'd have to ask Mark)
So what would happen is anything they believed was worthy of investigation went through Snook first. If he felt "no" then it ended with him. But if he saw something that gave him pause then he okay'd it to go to Dr. Souder, Farrar, or the Osborns for a final determination that didn't end with him.
Snook was one of those guys who absolutely believed Hauptmann guilty, and all sides of the issue had the utmost respect for him. I have never seen one bad word written about him anywhere by anyone.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 19, 2011 11:54:01 GMT -5
i agree. i liked keaton to. i met bruckmans grandson on the lindy bronx tour, he didnt realize how many cases he was on. i read his name involving many besides this one
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Post by Michael on Feb 20, 2011 19:14:27 GMT -5
I've got some issues with "Buster." One would be his treatment of the FBI Special Agents, and the BS he was spinning about them. There's more of course, but that's just one example.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 20, 2011 21:14:54 GMT -5
talking about spinning B.S., gov hoffman was the king
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Post by Michael on Feb 21, 2011 18:58:57 GMT -5
There really isn't anything Hoffman said that he didn't actually believe. Was he always right? No. But there's a huge difference between good faith & pretending and/or flat out lying.... Here's a little something on Keaton that came from Private Investigator Leo Meade. It's signed "M" but you'll have to trust me that he is the Investigator. I know the type-face and the only other person it could be was Lewis but his name doesn't start with an "M." Mustoe worked with Meade before being recalled to Monmouth County but those reports were signed "M&M" or their actual names. If Mustoe type out a report himself it was a different typewriter altogether. Again, you kind of have to trust me here. Now before the gloves come off and Meade is negatively labeled for the fact he assisted Hoffman's "re-investigation" efforts - its important to note that he worked specifically for Hauck during the Curtis Trial, and for the State on other occasions. It's why the Governor utilized him because his abilities had already been proven in the past & the fact he worked closely with the NJSP and had close intimate contacts there: Lieutenant Arthur T. Keaten
This man served as a Trooper in "A" troop and his meteoric rise in rank is surprising. Stationed under the command of Captain Carter in South Jersey, he was returned to headquarters after a trial as unfitted to be a police officer, because of inability to absorb instructions and training given him. He then became chauffeur for Colonel Schwarzkopf, and in that capacity was advanced to Sergeant. He now had become known throughout the service as "the Colonel's tale bearer", in which he became very proficient. He was later made a Lieutenant and placed in the detective division. His reputation in the department is that he would not hesitate to falsify or frame any report or evidence against another person, if it might bring credit to him. I also wanted to add something that I find particularly interesting... Some of the behind the scenes information concerning important angles being worked within the Governor's circle were being "leaked" from time to time. Parker believed Meade was a "mole" and wanted nothing to do with him specfically because of what I have written about his ties with the State.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 21, 2011 19:17:17 GMT -5
it could be true, but it could be jealousy. we all know gov hoffman at the end of the day was a fraud and a criminal himself. ive never seen anything in the hoffman papers earth shattering. hes lucky he wasnt dragged in the wendel kidnap but he had to know what was going on, because of respect and a governor, he slid.
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Post by Michael on Feb 22, 2011 17:05:10 GMT -5
I think "jealousy" is a real issue here. Most wanted to attach themselves to the "winning" side of things. And if they couldn't get on the side they wanted then they just wanted to get on ANY side so they were attached to this Case in some way.
At the end of the day Hoffman's embezzlement caught up with him. But honestly, what does that have to do with his beliefs about this Case? In my opinion - nothing. I've been through so much material, a lot of it isn't flattering or obviously not written for anyone's eyes except the person it was intended for AND STILL there's nothing there for fodder to say anything sideways concerning how the Governor handled this event.
Let's qualify this point....
Even the Cops who beat the hell out of Hauptmann cannot be permanently disqualified concerning EVERYTHING they did. And that's in spite of doing something completely wrong with full knowledge it was. Wilentz would go to his grave saying he didn't know Hauptmann was lumped up or his jail cell conversations were recorded but there is proof positive he absolutely knew about both.
See my point?
Which part? I've found a ton of good stuff and sometimes it took me several searches and several years to realize this. I would wager that even tho I've been thru each of his collections about 20 times if I went through again tomorrow I would find something new I hadn't noted in the previous reviews.
It's simply the nature of this Case to learn more as time goes on. And so by learning more then more information has value, or less value, depending on what you discover or don't discover.
Steve, Steve, Steve - that's why this all happened to Parker in the first place. They WERE after Hoffman. The problem is he hadn't been involved, and they couldn't coerce the Parkers into saying he was no matter what pressures they put on them.
I've been through everything. If Hoffman knew who Parker's suspect was then he did one hell of a job pretending he had no idea in his personal and confidential memos to his most trusted Staff.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 22, 2011 19:49:15 GMT -5
well the cops were wrong beating hauptmann, but unfortunatly thats what they did back then. as far as gov hoffman was, he refused to give new york the parkers after they were wanted there concerning the wendel affair. the hoffman papers has been looked at by alot of researchers like i said theres nothing earth shattering to put the case upside down. in my opinion i think hoffman knew about the wendel kidnapping by the parkers. hoffman [promised ellis the fbi job if he found the real kidnapper. in the 1950s they fouind out hoffman embezzlled aorund 300,000 dollars dated back to the 30s. 38 counts of forgeries. he either killed himself or died of a heart attack. its one of the big mysteries id love to solve
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Post by Michael on Feb 22, 2011 20:26:04 GMT -5
It was his right, as Governor, to deny extradition.
So why did he? Well if you read his explanation I think its self explanatory. Wendel was a wanted criminal, and a notorious liar, while Parker was a Hero to most every Law Enforcement Officer in the world at the time.
Next, the Kings Country Prosecutor's Office was the most corrupt (arguably) in the history of the United States. Hoffman had people on the inside who were telling him what was what. They needed a BIG score to distract everyone from the Druckman Affair and getting Gov. Hoffman would have done that. They were freely handing out immunity but when they couldn't get the Parkers withdrew it then denied they ever did in the first place.
Who? How long? Which Hoffman Collections? The "main" Hoffman Collection is 34 Boxes (1 empty). It takes about (8) hours to go through (1) box with any degree of research value attached to it. Now tell me who you know who did that.
Listen, I am not the end all here, but if someone says they spent a "week" at the Archives there is no way on God's green earth they can say what has value and what does not.
Okay but where's the proof? I am telling you if there was even a shred I would share it with you. Next, what is your source for that offer? Tell me where you have this coming from and I will quickly destroy it. Lloyd Fisher testified at Parker's trial. Read that testimony. Parker would have NEVER left Burlington County and would NEVER have accepted that job - even if it were offered.
I don't forgive him for this. I just don't think its related to his actions in this Case. It is a mystery. I would love to know who he is talking about in his "suicide" letter. He did some other "questionable" things after he left as Governor. I don't think that had anything to do with this Case either. In fact, his interests are damaged by what he did and not the other way around.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 22, 2011 21:15:30 GMT -5
it was his right, but was it the right thing to do? absolutly not. that was his friend he was protecting. he got blasted for that. the offer of being head of the fbi was told a number of times in the papers. i would have to look for my source. i think he would have jumped at that job, because of hoffman being his buddy and his power hungry ways. as far as his death, the obly thing i did is stand in front of the building with sue campbell of where he was found dead. id love to read his death certificate or was a autopsy preformed
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2011 7:00:14 GMT -5
I think it was the right thing to do, and I believe I would have done the exact same thing. Some agreed and some did not - its not like everyone was against him. We're talking about an Office who almost all of the Prosecutors all went down due to illegal or unethical conduct. The Mobsters ran that office and knew about everything they said or did.
It was fictional. Just like the "letter" Hoffman supposedly wrote. Parker didn't use violence, he used psychological tactics. Wendel was a liar, and con-man. Wendel was ready to sue Wilentz! These are the things people who haven't dug as deeply as I have do not know.
Parker would have never left Burlington County. It's all indicated within the reports not to mention what his family, to this day, will tell you.
I wouldn't trust the death cert. even tho I'd still like to see it. Him being caught, the letter, then the death seems to happen in such a way that its hard to deny the possibility. I believe that's what happened, and having researched him for so long I do believe that's how he would have gone out if discovered.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 23, 2011 7:46:03 GMT -5
you know dam well it was the right thing to do. a crime was committed and ellis parkers son was on the run. gov hoffman was wrong. dont say it was fictional i read that in many sources that hoffman promised ellis the fbi job if he became president id like to prove either way if it was real. as far as hoffmans death, i would like to read anything in his death report
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2011 17:26:03 GMT -5
You're telling me you would turn over one of the most Reputable Law Enforcement Officers in the world to a DA's Office being run by the Mob - based upon the words of a Criminal Dis-barred "hustler" and (3) guys threatened with 20 years in prison unless they implicate him?
I wouldn't.
Next, I am not saying people weren't saying what you are writing but what I AM saying is it never happened. Hoffman NEVER promised Parker the head of the FBI under any circumstance. And even if someone offered that to Parker the evidence is clear he would never have accepted such an offer. It's simply not something that would have happened.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 23, 2011 18:53:48 GMT -5
yes, it was his duty to do so, i dont care about your writings about everybody being corrupt in brooklyn. hoffman was wrong, then again he was not on the up and up himself. ellis reputable? id say he had alot of power and abused it at times in his career. as far as parker being promised the fbi jiob. ive read it alot of times through the years. is it true? who knows but mike you cant say it never happened. it might of
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Post by Michael on Feb 23, 2011 19:44:52 GMT -5
It wasn't his duty. His duty was to use his power as Governor to grant extradition - or deny it. He denied it. I don't have anything to show the Governor ever acted in bad faith concerning the Lindbergh Kidnapping. I just don't. However, everyone under Geoghan would either be disbarred, or prosecuted. Even Geoghan's best friend was an illegal bookmaker. Again, they were after Gov. Hoffman in order overcome the Druckman mess, among other things, they put themselves in. They gave immunity to Schlossman & Weiss in order to get the Parkers - expecting once the Parkers were in NY they'd get them to give up Hoffman. Of course their informant was Wendel. Need I say that during the Federal Trial during recess both Wendel and Bleefeld were seen huddled up and whispering to each other in the hallway? Huh? The beaten and abused victim is exchanging secrets and strategizing with his KIDNAPPER who BRUTALIZED him? And all the while he was scamming Kings County who put him up with full expenditures. Once Hoffman discovered Wendel was fraudulently submitting bills to them he laughed then wished them well. This was the man that was to bring him down and save their reputation? That in his eyes was justice and they got exactly what they deserved. Meanwhile, as Naples and others from Trenton were looking to get Wendel back (NY promised to return him) Wendel was getting ready to go after Wilentz. Wendel claimed Wilentz made a deal with him that wouldn't happen. It's a tangled web, but I've got it all down. People want to simply point their finger at Parker, or Hoffman. But if you do then you had better be ready to point everywhere else where there is solid proof of some unethical conduct. It's absolutely everywhere and at every turn.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 23, 2011 21:28:51 GMT -5
i think hoffmans little investigators, some of them acted in bad faith. you keep bringing up the troulbe kings county had, that happened after the fact just like gov hoffmans scandals. the truth is he should have gave them to brooklyn. as far as wendel is concerned your right about him ringing up bills, i have a article of them telling him to leave a hotel because he ran up the bills. i sent you a email with a poll on the hauptmann case on a great true crime website laura james.com she wrote a great book on jesse james son who became a lawyer and was involved in a murder.
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Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2011 7:00:35 GMT -5
I think you have to be more specific in order for me to address this. What most don't understand is there were all kinds of people offering information or to assist the Governor. His response was he would look at whatever anyone had to show him, and that he couldn't pay anyone for whatever effort they decided to make. For example, there was one guy name Eagon, I believe, who would flash this letter around and claim he was working for the Governor then proceed to charge rooms and food under his name. The Press would catch wind of stuff like this and have a field day with it. But in the end, the Governor would simply send a copy of his letter along to whoever wanted to know the true situation of the matter.
This isn't true. The heat was on at that time, and things had happened which were starting to snowball. What you have is, in the end, the wheels of justice catching up on these people. If they hadn't been doing what they were doing earlier they probably wouldn't have brought the attention on themselves. Druckman was murdered on March 3, 1935. Witnesses would be told "stay out of New York until Mr. Todd is out of Office." (For people who don't believe in Conspiracies here's one of the worst kind) This is just one example - but a major motivating factor for Geoghan. He wanted to prove his Office wasn't corrupt.
Wendel was a total crook. Even after this he continued on with his fraudulent conduct.
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Post by wolf2 on Feb 24, 2011 19:57:47 GMT -5
mike the bottom line is wendel was held and beaten, the parkers were behind it. the whole thing was so stupid. like ellis said somebody should have hit me over the head.
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Post by Michael on Feb 24, 2011 20:36:56 GMT -5
Bleefeld was trying to sell Wendel's confession well BEFORE he was picked up. You tell me how to make sense of that, and yet, that's exactly what happened.
Next, even after being offered immunity, it was testified to the Grand Jury that Wendel was struck only once after bragging about "emasculating" the child.
Parker was battling illness, and was manipulated by Wendel. Parker's testimony told that tale without all question. His Lawyers couldn't have a normal conversation with him. He laughed and cried alternately. He argued with and became a hostile witness towards them on the Stand!
What Parker said at the Mercer County Grand Jury was that, in essence, if he knew then what he knew now he would have hit him over the head.
But there's one thing he said at his Federal Trial which he testifies to that stands out to me. He said he was "square as a brick" having turned over Wendel's confessions AND his repudiation. They wouldn't have known there actually was a repudiation if he hadn't turned it over too. And so, if he was guilty of everything they allege, why would he do that?
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Post by Michael on Feb 25, 2011 6:55:09 GMT -5
I just wanted to add a little more about Parker's health. While on the stand and under Cross, he was smiling and laughing when there was absolutely nothing to smile or laugh at. The Prosecutor jumped all over this and made it out to be that he thought it was funny because he was, in essence, above the law.
Is that what it was?
Then he would wink from time to time, and again, the Prosecutor jumped all over this. But the Defense wasn't allowed to present his medical situation AND Parker himself fought against this as well.
He didn't stand a chance, and I've got to tell you this Case is damn near equal to the Hauptmann Trial. I am sickened by it each and every time I review how brilliant this man's career in Law Enforcement was. You can go to any sick bed in any hospital, put that person on the stand, and get essentially the same thing.
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