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Post by rick on Mar 5, 2006 9:16:50 GMT -5
William Norris's new manuscript raises more questions about Dwight Jr and the Morrow family. One curious point is that Dwight was at Next Day Hill the morning of Violets suicide? Home from College at Amherst. Also present, in one account, was CAL who was reportedly responsible for suggesting that Violet be brought to Alpine for questioning. Dwight and CAL meeting together at Violets strange demise is rendered more fascinating in light of Norris' Book.
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Post by gary on Mar 6, 2006 23:10:09 GMT -5
Rick one can never know. The Violet Sharp situation could have set off a series of events that ended up with an attempted kidnapping and her demise. If truly she had an abortion which strangely is strongly hinted at yet lacks substance of truth could have caused more than Violet to vent a misdirected anger. (Gary-not sure I logged in)
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Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2006 5:51:46 GMT -5
Dwight Jr. is definitely the made for TV "shadowy figure" in the back round of this case. It could actually be the explanation for all of the secrecy.... possibly having nothing to do with this crime .... but not wanting to open up another whole can of worms.
Maybe there was a relationship here, heck, every time I turn around I am finding reference to Sharp in a relationship with someone else.
I also keep finding references to her possibly being murdered instead of the ever popular suicide.
Once I get Bill's new book I am going to read it again to see what he's turned up. The new book is the final cut complete with index.
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Post by rick on Mar 7, 2006 6:35:03 GMT -5
Well, i dont think we need to put on any kid gloves to speculate about CAL, Dwight Sr, Dwight Jr and the servants? Maybe they all were "eugenicists" at heart spreading the dictatorial genes? The circumstances immediately surrounding Violets suicide are ripe for manipulation. ..both of her and the evidence afterwards. Violet Sharpe is well positioned (?) to either know, see, or hear something about Charlies disapperance. On the other hand she could be dumb as a stick? Dumb however does not equal suicide. I just read recently that Dwight was released from institutional care later on in midlife, got a PhD and married? Position, Power and Priviledge Rule!
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Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2006 18:44:06 GMT -5
I think it was either Kathy, Carol, or Rita (sorry I can't remember) who made the point about Sharp running downstairs screaming like she did. In other words, if she wanted to die what was the point of that?
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Post by kathy for michael on Mar 7, 2006 18:47:45 GMT -5
it wasn't me; maybe Dwight,jr was following in his father's footsteps. Violet did seem to get around.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Mar 7, 2006 21:24:11 GMT -5
Death by acute cyanide posioning would be extremely painful as each cell of the body is systematically and progressively smothered. I can well imagine Violet having been in great distress if this was the case. Perhaps some of what might have been perceived as an emotional outburst could also have been brought on by realization and regret over her final action.
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Post by steve romeo on Mar 9, 2006 19:18:24 GMT -5
is it true violet had a abortion?
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Post by Michael on Mar 9, 2006 20:24:35 GMT -5
Not according to Springer....
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Post by gary on Mar 10, 2006 1:26:52 GMT -5
But Michael. This doesn't mean it wasn't so. Even Springer said to Walsh , "she only told me what I wanted to hear." It was after the interview with Springer that she gave her famous wink. In addition Sharp's famous lines to Edna that life may not be worth living for is coming off her quote that life is so sad. It had been noted in FBI files that Sharp claimed that she was upset because people blamed her for the death of her child and the Lindbergh's.
You have to ask why on earth is she dating someone she doesn't really know and yet is claimed to have a deeper relationship with S. Banks. Why does she have a business card of a mysterious druggist in the Bronx. What drugs if any might she need and for what. She writes Edna and doesn't call her condition tonsillitus but a poisoned throat. How ironic and maybe more truthful than we can know.
There is something I don't buy in the Ernest Miller story. Is there no S Banks in her life now and if so why? Why to the peanut Grille? Is this really that great of a place to travel so far to on this so critical of a night.
THe drastic weight loss she had makes me wonder if she is more sickly than the assumed causes as worry and anger. There is something more happening here.
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Post by Michael on Mar 11, 2006 14:42:55 GMT -5
I have to find the exact reference to her saying she was being blamed for the death of her baby....The FBI did a lot of 1st hand investigation concerning Sharp so its something they may have from an investigation rather then the newspaper. Interesting point you make about the "poison throat"...irony or prediction? The Springer comment is something that causes me much to think about. It's not just that Sharp may not have told him but that no one else did - supposedly. He knew just about everything when it came to the Staff and it was his job to know. Other Staff would come to him with gossip etc. So when Springer claims he never heard this before and he tended to doubt it then I see only one of two conclusions: 1. Sharp did not have an abortion
2. Springer was steering the investigators away from this event by lying. If Springer is lying then why? To protect Sharp? I doubt it. To protect a Morrow perhaps? There's more to the Sharp angle - I agree.
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Post by gary on Mar 20, 2006 8:37:54 GMT -5
There are two references of Sharp having an abortion in the FBI files. Unfortunately it appears the source purposely was not disclosed. The FBI files account for someone in the Englewood servants clearly saying she did . I never heard Betty Gow deny her encounter with Sharp.
Suspicious events cause me to look at this as deeply as I can. Her relationship with Banks at the time of the kidnapping appear to be cold. The date with Miller makes you wonder what kind of relationship they had at this moment of time. Before the kidnapping shows no signs of her flipping out emotionally and yet we see a complete breakdown afterwards especially after the child was discovered dead. I don't buy the police pressure was the reason. Betty Gow and Red Johnson at one time were under the same suspicion and maybe even more so. At the time of questioning you can see her disposition of hiding information and I believe there is something to this.
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Post by rick the member on Mar 20, 2006 8:49:22 GMT -5
Gary...I agree that the Sharpe death is an important event and should not just be dismissed as a garden variety suicide. I also dont think Walsh is responible. Violet starts lying and misleading the cops at the first interview about little things which promts further attention later. I think she knew something or overheard something and either realized she had to keep this secret or was "told" she had better keep this secret. Its almost as if she is afraid to start telling the truth for fear of letting out the secret so she lies about everything. She is a clever girl. I read her poetry at the Archives last week and look at photos of her driving a motorcycle. She completely falls to pieces which indicates to me it must have been important at least to her. Second, I was astounded to find that both CAL and Dwight Jr. were at Next Day Hill the day she died. Differeing accounts cannot confirm whether or not she poisoned herself or was handed the glass by another as a calmer-downer? Sure, this is out of the box, but it deserves some thought. Violet was in a position to know something especially if she actually met with Isador Fisch in New Rochelle or the mystic temple in Harlem. Mary Cerrita said.."innocent folks dont commit suicide". end quote
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Mar 20, 2006 14:26:36 GMT -5
That is a good observation Gary. What do you think about the cause of her distress?
Rick. I think a lot of unfortunate people who commit suicide are innocent.
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Post by rita on Mar 20, 2006 23:51:38 GMT -5
Rita for Rick Whose motorcycle was it? I think you are right about Violet being handed the cyanide, because if suicide was intended she would not have run about hystericaly. Both CAL and Dwight Jr. being there is very interesting at very least. Was it just another injustice of our justice system, or was it CAL worship on the part of Schwartzkopf?
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Post by gary on Mar 21, 2006 22:48:50 GMT -5
In the interviews of may 21st-23 Keaton and Walsh noticed a definite decline in Sharp's composure. She looked defeated, subdued, and physically withdrawn. This definetely a key time for it was after the baby was discovered dead. I think this has the possibility of being a huge clue.
I've added a picture of Sharp's diary just for fun. I hope it comes up okay.
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Post by Malory on Mar 22, 2006 13:06:35 GMT -5
I have been reading all your posts and i just have to say one thing. A young unmarried woman back then who had suffered lost loves can be motivated to lie for dumb reasons. She didn't seem motivated by money as much as by men. I think she lied to cover her tracks for going out with another guy (other then the butler). Just my opinion.
If you have the chance to visit the police museum in Trenton you can actually read her diary. And when you do you will realize she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Post by Michael on Mar 22, 2006 20:00:29 GMT -5
The suicide doesn't make sense for me....She had a very good job, and plenty of money in the bank.
It just can't be she was lying to hide her date from Banks....the reports indicate he already knew about it.
Rita, I believe it was her motorcycle from when she lived in England. The former Butler, Kinnicutt, claimed that Sharp had told him she had been in a motorcycle accident in England and she would often tell him that it was the reason she was a "little off."
Gary, you didn't post the link to your picture...
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Post by rita on Mar 22, 2006 21:54:52 GMT -5
To Michael I was curious about the motorcycle because I am wondering about the advetureous motorcyclists spirit haveing an interfereing effect with depressive suicide reasoning.
It seems odd that people related to family or case in general keep turning up dead, and Schwartzkopf and staff keep humoring CAL's investigation, looking away from any suspicion that might fall on him
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Post by gary on Mar 22, 2006 22:47:55 GMT -5
Thank you for your post and opinion. Perhaps you are right. At the moment though I disagree. I was at the museum and I surveyed the collection. Among the items I saw were letters ripped to pieces ..taped together. I suppose by the police. The anger and despair seemed to be reeling from them. Perhaps I am getting the wrong feeling and should not follow them but I believe there is more to contribute to this kind of personality than one more shaky relationship.
Sorry about the picture. I must not be doing something right.
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Post by Michael on Mar 23, 2006 6:07:19 GMT -5
Gary,
Try the "upload an image" section directly above the message area. Click "browse" and then find the image you want to post in your files. Once you click "host it" this should post the picture to the remote host and several links should come up. Choose which link you want then highlight it, cut it, and post it in the message section of your post. That should work.
I am still suspicious concerning the person who we have talked about in the past. He denied going out with Sharp but I believe he was lying. And I agree with your assessment there is more here then despair over a shaky relationship.
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Post by gary on Mar 31, 2006 0:46:17 GMT -5
I don't want to beat a sick horse but there are small things that can be considered. Ones that I might tie in later about the matter.
#1 Violet was in possession of several things of Emily's. Things that Emily did not take along to England. Among them hospital and doctor bills. It can be guessed that Violet may have paid her bills for her.
#2 Gardner brings up Emily's response to the Violet/Miller date. Emily seemed to be puzzled that Miller knew Violet's name. This could be important because it was mentioned Emily thought this at the time. (not hindsight).
#3. Regardless if you believe Violet was confused in her interviews there are parts that clearly dictate she was not and it was a clear evasion in her answers. Does anyone believe someone could claim to be at a movie when at the peanut grill?
#4. Obviously through interviews and Emily's statements Violet had been planning a return to England. There should of been atleast a mindset that despite the world of troubles there should be thoughts of a brighter day ahead. I certainly believe there were more reasons to live and not take her own life by what we know . It seems what we don't know took a strong hold upon her look of the future.
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Post by steve for mike on Mar 31, 2006 6:18:32 GMT -5
somebody jim fisher knows in the fbi, i think hewas in charge of the files, that she did have an abortion. if jim got a file nobody saw yet i will try to get a copy
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Post by Michael on Mar 31, 2006 6:28:24 GMT -5
Thanks Steve. There's always a chance there is a document we just don't know about....
I plan on diving into my Sharp files this weekend. Gary's observations here and both new and interesting.
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Post by gary on Mar 31, 2006 17:54:01 GMT -5
Thanks Steve and Michael. Steve I've been looking for this. I am very much interested. This is ground breaking stuff if so. None of the main authors mention it except I think Behn mentioned there was a rumor of such. Then when I saw the FBI report and then Joyce Milton's account I thought it worthy to dip into.
In my fbi file book that is published it seemed the report wanted to evade the source completely.
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Post by rick62 member on Apr 1, 2006 7:05:46 GMT -5
Violet Sharpes personal life may just have been at the crossroads of the kidnapping as Gary suggests--wrong place, on the wrong evening? But, if in fact she did have an abortion--then the big question is....whose baby was it. Dwight Sr, Dwight Jr, CAL? If so coverup would be paramount. But, Violet Sharpe is in much deeper into the LKC than this. The Manckes in New Rochelle say she was meeting with Ollie whateley and Fisch at the luncheoinette on Sunday evenings. This is astouding in and of itself, thus haveing a Taxi Card from New Rochelle is not surprising. Its a match. Also, Ollie and Violet are attenders at the Temple of Divine Power on E. 147th with Cerrita and Biratella, the seance twins of 6 March 32. This is astounding as well. Absolute confirmation would be lacking? Ollie Whateley looks so innocent isolated down at Highfields. Noone ever axes him if hes been heading into NYC with Violet Sharpe. Ones thing is for certain, Ollie Whateley did not have any abortion and he turns up dead when his wife is aways on holiday in 1933? The abortion solution for Violet sweeps too much other stuff under the carpet for my likeing. It is illogical too simplistic to think that lying about the Peanut Grill and some movie will get her off the hook on dating someone other than Septumus Banks--an olde drunk. {wink} It looks more like Charlies death does her in one way or another--and that she knows more than she tells. CAL finds the glass and the cyanide/ how convenient. Whats amazing to me is that if she just told the truth in the first interview she would have gotten a free pass from all other interrogations like all the rest of the staff who looked far more involved at first blush than she did (REd and Betty) so its the first lie that did her in/ Where were you on the Night of 1 March 32? Who were you with?
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kevkon
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Post by kevkon on Apr 1, 2006 9:17:38 GMT -5
It may be very appropriate to look hard at Miss Sharpe and her actions. But aren't we beyond the age old method employed by men to cast doubt on a woman's character by attacking her virtue?
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Post by rick3 on Apr 4, 2006 14:58:56 GMT -5
Apparently not? It took a meteor to kill all the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Alan Hynd noted that Isador Fisch mysteriously left towne late in March 1932 and headed out to a boarding house in Hartford Conn? Even though he was reported to have owned property in the Hamptons on Long Island/ thus this might be a key to the accidental death of baby Charlie--good time to get out of Dodge. Violet Sharpe had two circumstantial assciations with Fisch, one in Mankes lunchionette and one at the temple of Divine Power. Both mind you, included the Butler Ollie Whateley. Mary Cerrita later volunteered Violet as an attender at the mystical Church and one of 4 or 5 kidnappers--eg the dead woman. Back in '32 everyone thought that Violet let some small snippet of information slip to the nappers about Charlie staying over at Highfields, but today we know better that she was into something bigger with Oliie and Fisch--both of whom also turned up dead by October 1934.
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Post by Jack on Apr 8, 2006 19:04:23 GMT -5
A friend of mine in Illinois met an old fellow with a stack of newspapers he was going to throw away. When she saw that they were from the 1920s and 1930s and dealt mostly with the Lindbergh flight and kidnapping, she asked if she could have them. He agreed and she sent them to me. In an edition of the Chicago Daily Tribune from March 4, 1932 on page 3, there is a short report that states Mrs. Morrow thought the kidnapping was an inside job. The report further states that "Mrs. Morrow, grieving because Mrs. Lindbergh had not brought "Charlie" to her Englewood home on Monday or Tuesday, as usual, expressed the view that the crime was perpetrated by someone familiar with the habits and the hours of the Lindbergh home." Has anyone heard of this attitude on the part of Mrs. Morrow? I underlined the portion regarding Anne Lindbergh because it seems to present a hint of blame. How could Mrs. Morrow hold this opinion and not suspect some of her employees? Given the strained relationship between Charles Lindbergh and his in-laws, could his refusal to allow his employees to be interrogated have been in reaction to what he perceived as interference from his mother-in-law?
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Post by Michael on Apr 9, 2006 8:46:58 GMT -5
Jack,
That sounds like a nice collection - glad you came into possession of it.
I have seen this referred to in several places in the Hoffman Collection. Apparently Mrs. Morrow did make this comment to Reporters as did Olly Whately, however, I have not found it in any Police report so it seems its not something they asked her about. One never knows so I'll continue to search for any further reference within the files. I do know that she hired her own personal PI - Val O'Farrell - to assist in making an investigation for the Morrow family.
I agree that anyone holding this position must suspect someone "inside" and that would include staff. Can I ask what your source is for the strained relationship between CAL and ECM?
CAL's protection of the Staff is inexplainable and I have never understood his position and the NJSP's respect for it. CAL's ridiculous reason for this is completely undermined by interview with Agent Larimer.
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