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Post by kate1 on Jun 21, 2017 18:32:22 GMT -5
Red Johnson and the Junges are people I don't believe were thoroughly investigated. Betty, Red and the Junges all leave the country soon after the LKC... only Red's departure is supposedly involuntary. Deportation is much preferred to prison time, wouldn't you say? A love triangle has motivated many a person - Red for Betty and Betty for CAL? In some book the Junges were referred to as among the wealthiest families in Hamburg before the depression - what some people will do to return to the wealthy style to which they are accustomed... Don't forget that according to the FBI, Junges, Red and Ellerson all lived at the same address at some point... The Junges and Red were alibis for each other for two hours the night of the kidnapping. Also the table message talked about wealthy from Hamburg. I don't know how much this was investigated. I think it was discovered by Mark at the museum.
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 21, 2017 19:48:24 GMT -5
Just so far as Red Johnsen was concerned, my impression was that he did have a valid alibi. Within a week or so of the purported kidnapping, he was picked up and transported by NJSP to jails in Newark and Jersey City. During this time in police custody, he was supposedly beaten up quite badly. But apparently they were eventually satisfied that he was not connected to the crime and he was released. A few months later he was held by the federal immigration administration in New York. (He was an illegal immigrant.) I don't recall exactly why he was held for a period of of over a month, but, after receiving political help by a group of Republicans of Scandinavian descent, Johnson was allowed to leave for Norway and agreed that he would not return to the US without reapplying for admission.
Incidentally, it would seem as if Johnsen's alibi for the night of the purported kidnapping could be verified by police by tracing the origin of his phone call to Highfields via telephone company records. Does anyone have more specific info as to whether this was actually done?
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Post by kate1 on Jun 22, 2017 6:02:58 GMT -5
Think it was Gardner that said Junges offered to let Red use their phone to call Hopewell that night but he preferred to use a public phone. I wondered about that. If a public phone could be traced. In those days coins were used for long distance Calls and were relatively expensive to make. This from a guy who only had seven dollars and had to pay for gas to Connecticut. Long distant calls were made through an operator but were records really kept? On a public phone? Why were a group of Scandinavian Republicans interested in Red???
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Post by kate1 on Jun 22, 2017 6:10:27 GMT -5
Just remembered being able to ask an operator to call back with the amount of the charge after a long distance call was made. ALL long distance calls at that time were made through an operator, no direct calls. Why go out on a "raw and rainy" night to make a call that you needed coins for. Sounds like it wasn't a brief chat, according to Whately. For that matter, who goes driving around for 2 hours using up gas, in that kind of weather?
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Post by kate1 on Jun 22, 2017 6:18:29 GMT -5
He stopped in the Bronx to eat on the way to Connecticut. Another coincidence. Also, see paralells between Red and RBH. Both were in the country illegally and both were beaten by cops and neither admitted to involvement; but one was released and the other one wasn't. Can think of others but might take too long; maybe in the "Bronx Connection"?
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Post by hurtelable on Jun 22, 2017 9:31:49 GMT -5
He stopped in the Bronx to eat on the way to Connecticut. Another coincidence. Also, see paralells between Red and RBH. Both were in the country illegally and both were beaten by cops and neither admitted to involvement; but one was released and the other one wasn't. Can think of others but might take too long; maybe in the "Bronx Connection"? Wouldn't make all that much out of a stopover in the Bronx to eat, since the Bronx would probably be on his direct route from Englewood, NJ to his brother's place in Connecticut. As for as the parallels between Johnsen and Hauptmann, it would be a stretch to think that the two knew each other. Recent immigrants at the time tended to socialize almost exclusively with fellow immigrants from the SAME country. It wouldn't be that common for a Norwegian and a German to be close with each other.
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Post by kate1 on Jun 22, 2017 15:42:28 GMT -5
Connection to Condon and the Temple people....Fisch and the Pie Company? Don't believe there was any relationship between Red and Richard!
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Jun 22, 2017 17:22:58 GMT -5
There are so many connections to Connecticut!! I will review my information that surrounds my dad and post early next week. As I have said before...So many people involved in this case were coming from, going to or knew someone who had been to the State of Connecticut.
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Post by kate1 on Jun 22, 2017 17:59:14 GMT -5
Thank you Aimee!
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Aimee
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Post by Aimee on Jun 28, 2017 13:59:01 GMT -5
I'm going to need a spreadsheet to analyze all the connections to Connecticut! wow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 15:55:33 GMT -5
Just to add an additional Connecticut link to this discussion, Mary Cerrita had claimed she saw Charlie alive several times in her stances. One of these times she saw him she said Charlie was in a house located in Waterbury Connecticut. The house was on the main street; the house number was 145. The police did check this out but when they arrived there the tenants had disappeared. There was no trace of the baby.
It seems the more you look into this case, the more Connecticut comes up!
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Post by kate1 on Jul 22, 2017 19:03:40 GMT -5
Amy, was Duane Baker from Connecticut?
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Post by kate1 on Jul 22, 2017 19:12:30 GMT -5
I know at one time he lived in the same boarding house as Red Johnson and the Junges but I can't remember if there was a connection with Connecticut.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 22:15:29 GMT -5
Amy, was Duane Baker from Connecticut? Duane(Baker)Bacon was born December 23, 1896 in New York City. I am not aware of a Connecticut connection. However, Joe, who posts on this board is very knowledgeable about Duane Baker Bacon. If Baker has any New England connection, Joe is the guy who would probably know about it.
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Post by kate1 on Jul 24, 2017 18:55:50 GMT -5
Thank you. I'll look into too.
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Post by johnno27 on Jun 12, 2018 0:06:49 GMT -5
Connecticut connection: I'm sorry for being vague, but I've read a lot of books,etc over time, and it's been a while. About Conn.
1. There was a very curious story about a diner/restaurant in CT where, if I remember correctly, the proprietress spotted Isador Fisch and Violet Sharpe coming there on a series of Sunday nights, then after the kidnapping, they never came in at all. That's approx the story, I don't remember in what book, I will look. It's so strange, it's credible!!
2. The whole New Haven story is tied up with Harold Olsen (alleged Charley #1) went to New Haven, found Charter St. (not Scharter) and the alleged house. It brought back a memory of a woman on a dock, who had tried to talk to him, years before. He had ignored her.
Johnno
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Post by leeforman2 on Oct 20, 2019 0:39:20 GMT -5
This begins with the photo from Getty images and the caption: "Isidor Fisch's Home (Original Caption) Norwalk, Connecticut boarding house where Fisch lived. A view of the boarding house in Norwalk, Connecticut, where Isidor Fisch, and a companion lived, after the Lindbergh kidnaping. Mrs Dainiel Hermann, the propretor, was quoted by the South Norwalk sentinel today, as having told investigators for Governor Hoffman that a man who Looked very mush like Dr. Condon", visited Fisch at the rooming house twice in 1932. She told the Sentinel that Fisch had offered to sell her Gold backs" for sixty cents on the dollar. She did not see the money." Some help from the Norwalk Library with my annotations: “Herman, Daniel, emp Manhattan Shirt Co [located in the Sentinel building on North Main] h 103 S Main SN". Daniel Herman would be the husband, employed at the shirt company, and Bertha [born in 1893 Hungary as per 1940 Census] his wife." The 1940 Census data makes it appears as if they continued this practice of operating a boardinghouse [Census includes Herman family and Arthur Fradette, Louis Casey, and a Richard Weiner]. Note that the name "Herman" only has on 'N' in these spellings. The address of that boardinghouse was 103 South Main Street – it no longer exists – there is only a parking lot present in that location today. Worth noting as an observation only – when the Sentinel first ran the story concerning the discovery of the ransom money – they had no name to go along with it – I think the date was September 21, 1934. The following day, the paper ran Hauptmann's name – AND Isidor Fisch. Then there was a burst of Fisch and Uhlig interest – along with associates of Uhlig – which ended – around September 28th – and the focus was solely on Hauptmann – [and then a string of other kidnappings and murders – with interest in Lindbergh vanishing until December]. I am wondering if there is an opportunity to follow up for Bertha's official statement or other details with the Norwalk Police Department – however, wouldn't be a record of this somewhere in the NJ State Police archives – along with Governor Hoffman's papers? As per the library - Isidor Fisch does not appear in the Norwalk Directories for 1931, 1932, or 1933. I have asked if they would be so kind as to look-up in the Norwalk Directory for Alex Miller – worth a shot – as the one article says that they received a considerable amount of mail. The photo of Fisch and Uhlig which appears in the Sentinel newspaper Sept 24th is a doctored composite shot – just an observation. I know that this was a common practice. There are two versions of that photo - which includes the shorter, unknown man, and Uhlig - I can include it as an attachment. The Bertha Herman account revolves around the house address 103 South Main Street and the year 1932. The Mrs. John T. Burns account revolves around the house address of 111 West Ave and the year 1933. The Burns went on to move to 100 South Main - which is a bizarre coincidence. That building still stands. The individual whom Uhlig and Fisch allegedly worked for was on Concord Street. Concord street as per the Library, was the hub of industry in the 1930s. I managed to find one internet reference to Kolbay's garage – which was supposed to have been located on Elizabeth Street – all of these addresses are a short walk - from either boardinghouse – 111 West or 103 South Main. Note that the Burns lived at 100 South Main at the time their story ran – there is no indication that Uhlig and Fisch lived there. I have asked if the library can look-up the address for Kolbays. The store above Kolbay's garage is called by the various newspaper articles as being in the 'fur business,' a 'toy store' and a 'novelty store.' Timeline for Norwalk - 1932 – unknown. I saw on the boards a date of 4-3-32 - not clear on the source for that. The Connecticut Bakery incident was April 11th - which would be interesting if you were headed back to NY from Norwalk by car for some reason. Timeline for 1933 – Fisch and Uhlig arrive in February – Uhlig takes Fisch back to Germany in May, and then arrives back in Norwalk in July temporarily. The three women being sought in connection with Uhlig, that work at the company above Kolbay's, include a German Mother and Daughter. The Norwalk Sentinel presents a case where Mrs Burns positively identifies Alex Miller as Fisch. The Norwalk Hour – owned by Hearst – portrays just the opposite – which is worth noting. Also worth noting is that if we ignore the Hearst rag, Henry Uhlig is living with a man using an alias – and never slips in conversation with Mrs. Burns.
Looks as if I may have missed the second portion of the article for Sept 26th - checking to see if I have it.
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Post by leeforman2 on Oct 20, 2019 0:40:24 GMT -5
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Post by leeforman2 on Oct 20, 2019 0:45:07 GMT -5
"The Norwalk Hour - the newspaper was founded in 1871. It was published under the title The Evening Hour from 1895 into the 1900s, at which point it was renamed The Norwalk Hour. Some time after 1971, it became simply The Hour."
Interesting - was not owned by Hearst until 2016. Their version of the Burns event is completely at odds with the Sentinel.
Attachments:
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Post by leeforman2 on Oct 20, 2019 16:32:37 GMT -5
With thanks to the Librarians - whom were interested, helpful and kind:
"Steven Kolbay, Auto Repair, at 3 Elizabeth Street in the 1932 - 1934 Norwalk Directories."
Looks like one long brick building today - but now the location of their shop is known. "There were no references to an Alex Miller in the 1932 - 1934 Norwalk Directories."
Fisch seems the type to create his fiction based upon fact - so I would assume that he created this name based upon individuals that he knew. Shame that there is nothing to pin him.
"There were no references to a Klar Company in the 1932 - 1934 Norwalk Directories. But there were references to a Harry Klar, who lived at 6 Bayview Avenue in the 1933 Norwalk Directory but who had removed to Brooklyn, New York, according to the 1934 Norwalk Directory."
There is a business in Norwalk today known as Klar - windows and doors - just an interesting aside.
"There were no references to fur-related businesses on Concord Street or Fishbein in the 1932 and 1934 Norwalk Directories. But there is a reference to a Morris Fishbein, furrier living at 14 Concord Street in the 1933 Norwalk Directory."
Couldn't find much due to the more famous Dr Morris Fishbein stealing all the fame - there was an underground figure named Morris Fishbein that was killed in Brooklyn in 1931.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 7:58:36 GMT -5
Fisch seems the type to create his fiction based upon fact - so I would assume that he created this name based upon individuals that he knew. Shame that there is nothing to pin him. True about Fisch and also true about Dr. Condon! The NYPD did a lot of investigating of Fisch's fur business after LE learned about him. Although I have looked at much of the NJSP archive material available about Isidor Fisch, I am sure I have not seen everything because I, unlike Michael who has gone over everything there several times, still have much more to look at. Max Leef, a detective for the NYPD looked into the Fisch/Uhlig/Hauptmann angle of the case. A search was made for the firm Klar and Miller which was used by Fisch in his fur dealings with BRH. Here are two of the reports by Max Leef about the existence of Klar and Miller. I think what you say above about Fisch creating his fiction based upon fact is evident in these repots. imgur.com/cEMSEFuimgur.com/WnQNnpnHenry Uhlig did, indeed, live in Norwalk Connecticut in 1933. He was employed there by Fishbein and Klar at the time. imgur.com/Fmh9FRnI have not come across yet (if there is one) a report that says anything about Isidor Fisch living in Connecticut with Uhlig. Could Fisch have visited Uhlig while Uhlig lived there? I think it is a possibility. Henry Uhlig did sell the cat furs that Pickus Fisch sent to his brother Isidor, while he (Uhlig) was working for Fishbein and Klar in Connecticut. This sale took place on August 10, 1933. According to Ulhig. Fishbein and Klar went out of business in December of 1933. While all this investigating was going on concerning the Fisch/Hauptmann connection, I always keep in mind that the New Jersey State prosecutor was planning to try Hauptmann as a single perpetrator of the Lindbergh kidnapping case. What influence might this have had on the Fisch investigation?
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Post by leeforman2 on Oct 21, 2019 10:08:14 GMT -5
That's great stuff Amy - thanks so much - I noted that the Klar concern in Norwalk, as per the last document - was placed as operating at 1 Elizabeth Street - which would be directly next door to number 3 - Kolbay's. Sounds like those skins may have been among the group held by Hauptmann, whom later had one allegedly thrown at him by Uhlig as worthless.
I am looking to create some kind of timeline for Mr. Fisch - as slippery and elusive as he was - and with the knowledge that there will be great holes in it.
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Post by wolfman666 on Oct 21, 2019 13:40:16 GMT -5
just changing the subject yesterday I was invited once again to go into hauptmans apt in the Bronx. kelvin keraga, sue Campbell, myself, Ritchie sloan, sam Bornstein, ronelles son. we were late the house is for sale and they renovated it. everything with historical value to the case is ruined. cant go in the attic and it was all changed. very disappointed to not know would have loved renting the house for a week to do some experiments and take a lot of pictures.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 14:29:33 GMT -5
just changing the subject yesterday I was invited once again to go into hauptmans apt in the Bronx. kelvin keraga, sue Campbell, myself, Ritchie sloan, sam Bornstein, ronelles son. we were late the house is for sale and they renovated it. everything with historical value to the case is ruined. cant go in the attic and it was all changed. very disappointed to not know would have loved renting the house for a week to do some experiments and take a lot of pictures. Wow! No more attic?! The most important part of that house in relationship to this case and it is no more. It is sad to loose these ties to the case. Glad you had a chance to go there even though it was not the same. Thanks for sharing this.
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Post by stella7 on Oct 21, 2019 15:13:49 GMT -5
Steve, glad you got to see Hauptman's house one more time but sad it was so changed. The other times you visited would you say it was pretty much the same as when Hauptman lived there or were lots of changes made over the years?
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Post by xjd on Oct 21, 2019 19:49:37 GMT -5
not to highjack this thread, but is Richie Sloan the guy who used to do LKC tours? does he still do them?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 10:29:56 GMT -5
not to highjack this thread, but is Richie Sloan the guy who used to do LKC tours? does he still do them? Hi xjd, Your post is probably best answered by Steve Romeo. What I do know is that Richard Sloan is the man who hosted the LKC tours but I do not know if he is still doing them. I would have loved to go on one of them!! Since there is discussion of the Hauptmann apartment at the moment, I wanted to post a drawing made of the interior of that apartment. It appeared in the New York Daily News on January 19, 1935. Richard Sloan also included this in the handbook he created for his Bronx tour. A copy of that handbook was shared with me by a board member who has taken that tour. The interior layout of the Hauptmann apartment: imgur.com/XWfy3wq
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Post by john on Oct 24, 2019 4:21:34 GMT -5
Michael (and hello again after a longish absence), do you know if the convict (if that's what he was) J.R. Russell character's identity has ever been confirmed or denied? This is, I admit, tangential to the LKC itself; who this Russell fellow was, his background, the people he knew, could have relevance to the case long term. That the man was apparently a criminal of some sort, his existence could at least be verified even as to (perhaps) what connection he had with Hauptmann cannot be, other than anecdotally. Just curious. So many names have popped up in the course of our studies of the Lindbergh case,--with many not even verified as having existed at all--it would be good to know something of Russell's character. He may well have been using an assumed name, and fond of telling stories. Maybe he can never be tracked down. That aside, it would still be good to know if he even ever existed.
John
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Post by Michael on Oct 24, 2019 8:30:29 GMT -5
Michael (and hello again after a longish absence), do you know if the convict (if that's what he was) J.R. Russell character's identity has ever been confirmed or denied? Hi John. Unfortunately, what's included above is the only information I have. I pretty much stopped looking, but I don't blame you for wanting to know more. There could be more at the Archives so you might want to give Mark a call. The index cards might reveal more reports on him outside of what I've posted. If I were to hazard a guess it would be in the form of another FBI report. If I saw his name included I wouldn't skip over, rather, I'd search the report for "other" information before I moved on. That's something I recommend to everyone. Even if a report doesn't appear to be of interest, there can be interesting material in it regardless. I've found that skipping over material, no matter what it is, has the potential of coming back to bite you in the ass.
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Post by john on Oct 24, 2019 14:41:51 GMT -5
Thanks, Michael. I've done some searching since I posted, haven't found much that looks promising, especially given the sheer volume of people with criminal backgrounds of one kind or another with the last name Russell and similar combinations of first names from the letters J and R.
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